12V isn't a good thing, did you mean 5V?
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Help! Repairing water damaged PCB from Massage chair.
- Thread starter Jonawald
- Start date
12V isn't a good thing, did you mean 5V?
Ok. My apologies. I guess I wasn't taking my measurements carefully I was mostly checking for a change with that jumper in. Ok. Here goes. There was a blade between the inside sensor on the width board. I guess I got 5V there earlier. Not sure how I checked the others.
I checked all the voltages open
37/38 had .5V open
39/40 had .14 open
Upper limit sensor blocked
5V on Pin 39
Lower Limit Blocked
5V on 38
With board
Outside blocked 5V on 39
Inside blocked 5V on 40
I checked all the voltages open
37/38 had .5V open
39/40 had .14 open
Upper limit sensor blocked
5V on Pin 39
Lower Limit Blocked
5V on 38
With board
Outside blocked 5V on 39
Inside blocked 5V on 40
That is great news!
It gives hop that the IC is not bad after all.
Time to check the clicking of the blue relays with the remote.
Insert the IC back without power and the correct direction(pin 1 mark).
Connect the main and controller boards the limit-opto boards and the remote.
Do not connect the motors yet.
power-up and try clicking the relays.
Do they click?
It gives hop that the IC is not bad after all.
Time to check the clicking of the blue relays with the remote.
Insert the IC back without power and the correct direction(pin 1 mark).
Connect the main and controller boards the limit-opto boards and the remote.
Do not connect the motors yet.
power-up and try clicking the relays.
Do they click?
The DC motors for width and Massage did not work before when recline and ottoman up/down still worked. The AC up/down motor didn't work either. It just started humming as soon as I turned on power and very weakly tried to drive the carriage down.
I repeated the test with the IC in and the numbers are pretty much the same as they were with it out.
I have sent iRest several emails and didn't get a response. Some dealer I contacted gave me a phone number 0086-400-8888-786. I have tried calling it but it seems they are on the opposite end of the world from me. I tried early in the morning and just now late at night. I did make out that it is iRest by the message on the anwering machine but I am not fluent in mandarian or any other language they might be speaking in China so I wasn't able to make out much else. I'm not sure how many phone calls I want to try at the rate my phone company charges this type of a call. If it's like any of the other hundreds of service calls I have already made it won't be quick and easy.
Jonathan
I repeated the test with the IC in and the numbers are pretty much the same as they were with it out.
I have sent iRest several emails and didn't get a response. Some dealer I contacted gave me a phone number 0086-400-8888-786. I have tried calling it but it seems they are on the opposite end of the world from me. I tried early in the morning and just now late at night. I did make out that it is iRest by the message on the anwering machine but I am not fluent in mandarian or any other language they might be speaking in China so I wasn't able to make out much else. I'm not sure how many phone calls I want to try at the rate my phone company charges this type of a call. If it's like any of the other hundreds of service calls I have already made it won't be quick and easy.
Jonathan
One thing we did not do and need to is checking the motors themselves.
Please do a resistance/ohm test of all the motors.
Can you please note them on the "full back of the chair photo" like so:
1.Name of the connector they are driven by on the main board.
2.Motor type: AC(and value of capacitor if present) or DC.
3.Ohms reading.
If the AC motor in #208 is the bottom one on the chair.
It could be "stuck" due to water reaching it and creating rust etc. on it's shaft/transmission.
It requires inspection and if needed cleaning,
it's " transmission " as well.
Please do a resistance/ohm test of all the motors.
Can you please note them on the "full back of the chair photo" like so:
1.Name of the connector they are driven by on the main board.
2.Motor type: AC(and value of capacitor if present) or DC.
3.Ohms reading.
If the AC motor in #208 is the bottom one on the chair.
It could be "stuck" due to water reaching it and creating rust etc. on it's shaft/transmission.
It requires inspection and if needed cleaning,
it's " transmission " as well.
Let's test the voltage activation of CN13,CN14
1. Please take out the IC from the socket, and connect the main and controller boards.
2. Do not connect motors to CN13,CN14 ! and take care it is high voltage.
3. Use a jumper wire in the Empty IC socket to connect pins 4 and 6 to pin 31(Gnd) one at a time like shown in the pic below.
4. Measure the DC voltage(and ACvolt as well) on the(unmarked) diodes as shown below
(+ is red,- is black),and ACvolt as well.
Be very careful here Dangerous High-Voltages:
Do not touch the diodes even if if you measure 0V on them.
And take care not to get a jolt from CN13,CN14
What do we get with/without the jumper to GND in the IC socket?
1. Please take out the IC from the socket, and connect the main and controller boards.
2. Do not connect motors to CN13,CN14 ! and take care it is high voltage.
3. Use a jumper wire in the Empty IC socket to connect pins 4 and 6 to pin 31(Gnd) one at a time like shown in the pic below.
4. Measure the DC voltage(and ACvolt as well) on the(unmarked) diodes as shown below
(+ is red,- is black),and ACvolt as well.
Be very careful here Dangerous High-Voltages:
Do not touch the diodes even if if you measure 0V on them.
And take care not to get a jolt from CN13,CN14
What do we get with/without the jumper to GND in the IC socket?
The water damage to the chair was confined to the bottom 30mm or so. There is virtually no water damage on the chair other than the boards themselves which sat almost on the floor. None of the motors saw water. They all move freely when I try turning them by hand.
I still don't know which plug goes to where, but the massage and width motors are plugged in at CN7 and CN8.
The AC motor for up down is connected to CN1 Labeled Ac/ Down/Up. There is a 12μF cap plugged in to CN2 beside that. I am guessing it's for the up/down motor.
The up/down motor has 19.2Ω resistance
The width motor has 73Ω resistance
The massage motor has 129Ω resistance
I also tested the diodes with jumper in and jumper out. Nothing changed with jumper in or out.
Diode beside CN4 has 107V
Diode beside CN3 has 73V
BTW, I sent that IC to a friend today. He has equipment to see if it is locked. He does not have a proper burner for the PIC chips, but he can at least see if it is locked. That might give us something to work on.
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From your measurements in #212(I assume on the diodes near CN13 and CN14).
1. Your line voltage is about AC119V
2. One(or 2) of the 4 diodes near CN13(marked blue) are probably open circuit or there is a bad solder there.
Please check the 4 diodes "in diode test mode" with the DMM.
If there is a bad one(open both ways) replace it.
Otherwise, redo the soldering around the 4 diodes and
check continuity to/from the diodes.
3. The fact that the control pins have no influence on the presence of the voltage on the diodes near CN13/CN14 and you get the voltages constantly suggests there could be a problem with the Triacs BTA12(marked red) or the circuit driving them.
Please lift-up one side of the resistors (marked yellow) and recheck the voltage on the diodes-You should get no voltage.
If you get voltages it probably means the Triacs are shorted and need replacement.
4. What is written on the device (capacitor?) marked green?
1. Your line voltage is about AC119V
2. One(or 2) of the 4 diodes near CN13(marked blue) are probably open circuit or there is a bad solder there.
Please check the 4 diodes "in diode test mode" with the DMM.
If there is a bad one(open both ways) replace it.
Otherwise, redo the soldering around the 4 diodes and
check continuity to/from the diodes.
3. The fact that the control pins have no influence on the presence of the voltage on the diodes near CN13/CN14 and you get the voltages constantly suggests there could be a problem with the Triacs BTA12(marked red) or the circuit driving them.
Please lift-up one side of the resistors (marked yellow) and recheck the voltage on the diodes-You should get no voltage.
If you get voltages it probably means the Triacs are shorted and need replacement.
4. What is written on the device (capacitor?) marked green?
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About the AC-motor :
1. CN1 on the main board as 5 pins, 3 of which are connected.
How many wires does the motor itself have?
I think there should be 3.
if so ,you need to measure the resistance between them all.
2. Did you inspect/measure the Motor Capacitor? what is written on it?
Warning: The capacitor should be discharged before you handle it,even without power it can deliver a nasty jolt!
3.Did you inspect the mechanics involved is there a belt/gear?
can you post a photo of it?
1. CN1 on the main board as 5 pins, 3 of which are connected.
How many wires does the motor itself have?
I think there should be 3.
if so ,you need to measure the resistance between them all.
2. Did you inspect/measure the Motor Capacitor? what is written on it?
Warning: The capacitor should be discharged before you handle it,even without power it can deliver a nasty jolt!
3.Did you inspect the mechanics involved is there a belt/gear?
can you post a photo of it?
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There are three pins. One for up one for down and a ground. I tested the resistance on all three. It was the same so I only gave one value.
I posted the capacitance on the picture It is a
Wufeng Ac Capacitor
12μF ± 5%
450VAC50/60HZ
I tested it. It has 12μF so that's good.
I did not inspect the mechanics under the chair. It would involve taking off a cover underneath. To take off the cover, I would need to take of the lift actuator too. it's a bit complicated and at the end I would still not see much because it is underneath in close confines. I know everything is fine there because it turns freely. I can easily move the carriage up/down with my fingers turning the motor.
1. AV120V correct
2. I took out those for diodes and tested them out of circuit. I redid the soldering and made sure to make a good job. I tested to make sure the solder made contact and that the traces to them are continuous but I still get the voltage difference between the leg up/down and back up/down. not sure what to do with that.
3.Ok I redid that test and got the same results. I took out those two triacs and tested with diode mode then with just risistance mode. Seems to be offline no matter which way I hold the probs on both of them. I began with black on centre got nothing either side. Then I put black on top-ground and still got nothing on any of the three pins. I am guessing those two are well and completely toast.
I have a bunch of bta08 600b triacs here. Any chance they would be suitable replacements for BTA12? I can't be sure about some of the values, seems to be a match or higher value for many though.
Now I see that the 08 is 8 amps and the 12 is 12 amps. Now how much did they overkill with the 12? would 8 be enough?
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In general the BTA08 isn't a replacement for the BTA12.
What is the full writing on the Triacs you pulled out?
So,You did the tests with one side of the resistors lifted from the board.
In that situation(resistor leg pulled-up and Triacs pulled out).
What voltages do you get with the Triacs pulled out?
In order to test without a replacement Triac .
Use a short wire to short A1(MT1) and A2(MT2) ,legs 1 and 2 in the location of the Triacs on the PS of the board.
Recheck the voltages ,they should be the same value (107V).
What do we get?
What is the full writing on the Triacs you pulled out?
So,You did the tests with one side of the resistors lifted from the board.
In that situation(resistor leg pulled-up and Triacs pulled out).
What voltages do you get with the Triacs pulled out?
In order to test without a replacement Triac .
Use a short wire to short A1(MT1) and A2(MT2) ,legs 1 and 2 in the location of the Triacs on the PS of the board.
Recheck the voltages ,they should be the same value (107V).
What do we get?
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With the triacs out, I get 73.8V on the Back side and 77V on the Leg side.
I didn't say earlier, but the red thing in the green square is a cap104J 630V.
The triac writing is in the picture. Sometimes it's easier to take a picture and read that than to try to read the writing with black on black. With the resistors out, I am sure I got some mV value, but I would have to re-do it to confirm. After I had put them back in, I wasn't sure anymore if I had power on when I did the test.
I didn't say earlier, but the red thing in the green square is a cap104J 630V.
The triac writing is in the picture. Sometimes it's easier to take a picture and read that than to try to read the writing with black on black. With the resistors out, I am sure I got some mV value, but I would have to re-do it to confirm. After I had put them back in, I wasn't sure anymore if I had power on when I did the test.
Ok I treid to test the Triacs by shorting mt1 and mt2. Nothing changed when I did the first one, but the second one produced a change. With the jumper (red line in circle) in I got 107V at the Leg side This went up from 70V from before. Does this mean this triac is bad or the other one?
Jonathan
Jonathan
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