I require help repairing a Kitchenaid Water Kettle

[Igal]

Hello guys,

I bought this kettle 8 months ago and i have the same issue as @Chrotesque have.
So the problem is in the base itself, then I opened the base and start digging to try find the problem:
So my conclusion is that the brown item:
http://imgur.com/6PPrVZh
http://imgur.com/THP7Dgy
http://imgur.com/QfiA43V
Can someone tell me please what exactly this item does? where i can buy it?

Also i posted youtube video of the problem (when i touching the the brown item its half working and half doesn't)

When i put the item in his place it doesn't work, I checked the wires and it seems like the wires is not the problem here.

Please help with this

Thank you,
Igal

 

[Igal]

Any idea? someone can help me?

 

[73's de Edd]

Why soitanly that reddish brown unit is the small power transformer being used on the unit.
The RED BLACK is the AC line voltage input and the other end is the reduced AC voltage output that feeds control electronics after being converted to DC voltage.

As it is. you are potentially moving SOOOOOO many wires, just hold the transformer locked into a totally steady position and then individually move each of the sets of plugs and then their attached wires to get that same on and off intermittent action that you were getting.
Once you ascertain the touchy plug and its wires, then move only the wires to see if they are sensitive to being moved, and then creating that same on and off action again.
Additionally, check that the end of any of the wires is not connected to a solder pad and that wire is almost floating loose in its solder pad connection.

73s de Edd

 

[Igal]

Why soitanly that reddish brown unit is the small power transformer being used on the unit.
The RED BLACK is the AC line voltage input and the other end is the reduced AC voltage output that feeds control electronics after being converted to DC voltage.

As it is. you are potentially moving SOOOOOO many wires, just hold the transformer locked into a totally steady position and then individually move each of the sets of plugs and then their attached wires to get that same on and off intermittent action that you were getting.
Once you ascertain the touchy plug and its wires, then move only the wires to see if they are sensitive to being moved, and then creating that same on and off action again.
Additionally, check that the end of any of the wires is not connected to a solder pad and that wire is almost floating loose in its solder pad connection.

73s de Edd

Thank you for your reply.

I checked as you said every wires and it seems like the contacts on the green board where the small transformer sit are not good.
So my solution was to re-blowtorch the connection on the green board. Now this is working perfectly...

Thank you very much!!

 

[73's de Edd]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa . . . and behold . . . . .there was hot water !
KUDOS on your providing us such GOOD info to work with !

 

[julzZz303]

Hey Guys,

is here still a little interest and traffic going on?
I've the same Stu*** kettle and its working as far as the blinking gizmos and Buzzers are concerned.

when it comes to a rather rudimentary function as in boiling water, this beautiful looking device fails completly!
Long story short: I suspect the NTC Resistor which controls the temperature to be defective.
PSU has Power, also the little transformer is Working - when there's not pot on the Base the machine beeps 4 times
if i connect the NTC to the Board (and simulate a Pot on the Base) the Circuit beeps twice but no relays are switched and the heating Element gets no power
But theres no Part number or something similar to identify the part itself or its value.
Since Kitchenaid is not willing to share any Information or documentation i'm pretty much stuck here.

PLEASE HELP ME!
Do You Know a source for these NTC or can you measure your Working NTC for me so i can verify that mine is defective (I measure something around 1K Ohm)
or have any Idea or Intel that enables me to get this piece of Kitchenhardware back into a working order- PLEASE Help me!

kind regards,

Julian

 

[julzZz303]

Ok, just tried something: device

i took a 8,2kohm resistor and used it in poistion as the NTC now one of the relays is switched and the heating element heats up, but it switches off the kettle a few seconds later, so the NTC definitely is broken, but why does the shut down after a fe seconds?
when the value of myx 8,2k Ohm resistor is stable, the heating element should heat up until i turn it off, right?

kind regards,

Julian

 

[73's de Edd]

Sir Julian . . . . .

( Now is that avatar Homie Simpsons long lost next door neighbor ?)

How about making a read of this and then provide some feedback for confirmation.
Looks like two others have used this thread for a fix, in your case I am wanting to think that you do not have enough water, as a thermal heatsink, in the unit to slow down
the heating action response to the heating element. There is a sampling of the current pull of the heating plate of the unit being done by the Black inductor on the power board
with the wire looped thru its core. It sits just to the left of one of the white power relays. It feeds back to the u/processor board, being just the opposite side of the unit.
It samples and compares a time constant of speed of heat rise of the heating element to detect no or low water, to shut down the unit in those overheating situations.

THE U/P BOARD:

The u/processor board has its top left connector that receives power supply voltage and a ground and feeds back drive to the two WHITE relays.
The next connector down and its sets of wires feed the slider pot temperature adjustment and the light set.

Discretes on the board seem to be 4 electrolytics--1 resistor or inductor---1 18 pin u/p and probably the hidden blue item is probably being its ceramic resonator timebase.
One connector and its wireloom from the pcb , go up to a light set above.
One connector and its red and black pair is going to the units speaker.
FINALLY the corner connector with its . . . . . LIGHT GAUGE . . . . red and black wires, must be going down into the heating plate to get close in thermal coupling to it. It then feeds back into pin #6 of the u/p.
Now ? is this systems thermal unit temp sensing being accomplished by either a silicon diode junction or a thermistor ?
Searching out . . . . .initially pull the just mentioned corner connector and do a power down . . . . . AC unplugged . . . . . test of the two pins of that loose plug to see if a diode is being detected, by using the DVM's diode test mode.
If so expect ~500-800 millivolts of forward voltage of a silicon diode family, with the leads applied and then reverse the leads polarities and expect an open circuit in that test.
If it reads in BOTH directions, it must be a varistor, so then switch to ohms function and see what resistance it reads both lead directions and log down as being an ambient temp reading.

THEN plug the connector back in and try a dry pot test of powering up the unit for about a quick minute and then power down by unplugging from AC and get back to measuring that same resistance, as quick as you can, to get some idea of its warm resistance.
Tell us what you found.. . . . both, at ambient and at that warmed up temp.

If you like, fill the pot half full of water and power up to see what the situation now is, with there then being a decent thermal drain upon the heating element.

CLOSE UP REFERENCING . . . . .
(This is using the old HOSTED image which is still being active at IMGUR)

Thasssssit . . . .

73's de Edd

.

 

[julzZz303]

73's de Edd,

you're some kind of electrician magician, right?
there's a lot of sorcery going on!
I'm glad such a force is helping us Newbies out on different occasions here.
I thought there must go on quite a lot on this PCB but i didn't think one second about current sensing, even with the obvious Current sensor

I tried measuring the temperature sensor and figured out it must be a varistor, reading in both directions about 0,8V
the resistance in both directions is 1,15k Ohm
(the sensor is embedded in a silicone seal directly stuck through the pot, i had it removed earlier)

now the tricky problem:
with my built in varistor i cant turn on the machine, the relays aren't doing anything and the heating element does not get power.

i tried filling the pot up with water and bypassing the varistor with a 8,2k resistor i had on hand and it heated up close to a boiling point, but the varistor didn't change much ca. 1,13kOhm

also there is a little bit black residue very close to the sensor

kind regards,

Julian

 

[julzZz303]

 

[73's de Edd]

HEY ! ! ! . . . it's being a complete new ballgame, with these totally new pictures that you have shown us ,that don't even relate to the other person's coverage of just the base portion of the whole unit.
Unfortunately, your photos spatial coverage, gave this OLD, blind, deaf and dumb person, only the ABC aspects of the whole view, with its lacking the D through Z portion of the picture,as still being needed.
I see the unit as hardly being over three years of age.
2400 W of power should cause a decent speed of change of temperature upon that mass of water.
Now let me break down that which I am able to see in these photos.
Initially there is being a yellow wire with green trace as a ground to ground wire connection being made between the base unit and the peripheral outer metal surround of the unit.
Then there is being the small PCB for tie points of a heavier gauge of black and red power wire connections and
two plugs, of which one goes two black wires that mysteriously pass into the base unit. Then there is another plug with two tiny white wires that goes into a chrome piece sticking out of the side of the unit.
Now, is that side chrome doggle, containing a switch inside of it which is used to start a healing cycle. That's then accounting for those 2 fine wires being low power switch connections.
OR does the chrome doggle mechanically move a linkage which ties into the center assembly, in which case the two fine wires could be connected to a small NE-2 indicator lamp to confirm that the unit is started on a heating cycle.
Now lets concentrate on the central unit of which we see a center pin and cascading alumumininny-yum-yum ring contacts and a final outer brass one to inter connect between the two completely different portions of the unit.
I would not want any relevant data being passed between these "iffy " modes of connections. Just AC power connections.
THEREFORE . . . . I somehow want to suspect that you need to look at the very central portion and particularly the very top and very bottom you see two brass contact strip portions showing, the top one has a bradded rivet connection which probably makes into a silver electrical contact on the other side. That contact swings inward to connect up with a mate.
You need to check the other bottom brass strip to see its functional situation also.
Now should you take loose, the 3 or so retaining screws of the bottom assembly, to be able to lift it up, I believe that what you are going to find, probably relating to the very top brass strip, is that there is a hollow portion of that whole polycarbonate molded unit.
The hollowed out tube portion of the polycarbonate tube that would be the closest to the heating plate, should have tabs that is holding / mounting a round thermal bi-metallic disc.
That disc has an upwards doming at its very center . The disc is heated up by the nearby heating element, and the differential coefficients of expansion of two conjoined disimmilar metals reach a specified temperature where a very distinct snapping action of the dome, causes the doming to completely transfer it to its other side.
They have stamped out about half of this disc and left a central finger extending across the disc, this procedure results in a relatively longer mechanical movement from the disc .
The extreme tip of that discs extended finger is resting against a very small round ceramic rod which passes through a hole throughout the poly carbonate casting, to then come out the other end and then touch the very most internal brass switch contact to move it towards its companion one.
That open switch contact then cuts power to the heating element.
Upon a designed / prescribed cool down of that disc, it then will SNAP back to its initial position to resume heating.
The cycle repeats.
Now if your unit relates to this type of construction on temperature control, we just need to see what conditions that you are experiencing are being relevant to the temp control / cycling situation.

73's de Edd

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[julzZz303]

buenas noches,

i must rephrase my statement from above, you sir, must be not only an electric magician but somewhat like a universal magician

as a non native speaker i still need a little while to digest and make sense of your suggestions and findings what i definitely really enjoy reading meanwhile there are two more pictures of the sacred pot in all its glory.
the chromium thingy is just the handle with some LED powered glory inside, that’s the two white cables i assume - i make sure of that tomorrow.
as you mentioned there’s something weird going on under the connector assembly involving some blueish discs which seem to be some kind of bi metallic discs, i‘ll take pictures of the assembly tomorrow (GMT)

wow, there’s really a lot off stuff going on in this quite primitive water heater

kind regards,

julian

 

[GeoffCC]

I've got the same kettle with the same problem, and it is the most ridiculously over-engineered thing I've ever seen.For example when you plug it in, it actually boots up. Beeps and flashes lights at the same time. Anyway, from the photo in the post above, the central pin on the kettle itself is the live supply. Neutral is the outermost of the silvery rings, and the outer bronze one beyond that is the earth. The two rings between live and neutral are at 5v and run to the little circuit board at about 5 o'clock in the picture. From there they run via direct traces to the plug with the two black wires. That is helpfully marked NTC. There is also a parallel circuit that lights an LED at the base of the handle (connected by two grey wires).

The NTC thermistor is held in place with a screw, and when that is removed it just pulls out. It sits in a little hole in the bottom of the kettle, and the only thing preventing water leaks is the little silicone gasket surrounding it. I don't know who thought it was a good idea desigining a kettle with a hole in the bottom, but I suspect that once scale starts building up then that will be a weak point.

After reading the post from julzZz303 above, I tried opening the base, and connecting a few resistors across the supply to the thermistor. I was doing it with the base upside down so had no kettle attached. I found that the LEDs on the kettle base which indicated the water temperature would light for a couple of seconds, one of the relays supplying power to the kettle would click, then a couple of seconds later the current sensor would notice that no current was being drawn and the microprocessor would shut everything down. The number of LEDs that lit was supposedly related to the water temperature, but as one new LED lights for each 10C rise in temp between 50C and 90C then the last two light at 95 and 100 the scale is pretty crude. I'd guess that it's a 100k NTC, but it could easily be anything between 80 and 120. It's all pretty academic anyway since the thermistor itself is potted in epoxy in a specially made part which looks impossible to get hold of. It's potted inside a 4mm metal cylinder, so you might be able to effect a repair of sorts if you had a similar sized piece of tubing, put the right thermistor inside, then just glued it in place from below with some JB Weld. I might try heating it to soften the epoxy and see where that leads me.

 

[Bluejets]

Maybe consider a Kmart kettle.
Mine cost $9.00 and last maybe 3 years, even then only get chucked as they start to leak.

 

[jackwt]

Apologies for reviving an old thread! I too have an issue similar to GeoffCC.

Kettle has been working fine, then all of a sudden it just cuts out before heating.

Scenario is:

I select the desired temperature (all LED's work fine and move with the slider) --> press the power button to start heating, it chimes and the LED's flash as they normally would (up to the temp i've moved the slider to) --> then after about 3 seconds it clicks, LED's blink in the normal way --> 3~ seconds later it clicks again, ALL LED's light up and flash and it chimes 5 times --> after that the LED's continue to flash until i turn the power off at the wall socket.

-This is with the kettle filled with water.

Any ideas what could be causing this please?

Fyi, i'm an electrical newbie!

 

[Andymoug]

Hi. Can somebody tell me how to open the base please. I want to try some of the (excellent) advice above

 

[palych65]

Apologies for reviving an old thread! I too have an issue similar to GeoffCC.

Kettle has been working fine, then all of a sudden it just cuts out before heating.

Scenario is:

I select the desired temperature (all LED's work fine and move with the slider) --> press the power button to start heating, it chimes and the LED's flash as they normally would (up to the temp i've moved the slider to) --> then after about 3 seconds it clicks, LED's blink in the normal way --> 3~ seconds later it clicks again, ALL LED's light up and flash and it chimes 5 times --> after that the LED's continue to flash until i turn the power off at the wall socket.

-This is with the kettle filled with water.

Any ideas what could be causing this please?

Fyi, i'm an electrical newbie!

Hi! I have exactly the same scenario, even though it is different to what was described before. Please, let me know if you managed to solve it. Would also appreciate help from the experts!


Nick

 

[Technomaniac]

I had a friend with a Philips kettle which had contact trouble between kettle and its launching pad. The contacts were badly burned and not making connection. We were able to get one lot of contacts from Philips but not the other. My own kettle had trouble with a thermal cutout going open. Bad crimps on connectors are also worth checking. Use the ohmmeter before removing any plugs or pushon connectors. If you disturb anything by wiggling the fault may be temporarily fixed and you'll have to have a repeat performance in a few months when it fails again. If the thing uses an IEC power cord make sure its fully inserted, and if replacing the cord, note that there are at least two types which are not interchangeable, one for heavy current appliances, and a different one for low current electronic devices. Does it have a switch operated by the Lid?

 

[Technomaniac]

Just had another look at the photo. One end of the heating element appears to be discoloured. Have you ohmmed the heating element?

 

[Harald Kapp]

Hi! I have exactly the same scenario, even though it is different to what was described before.

Exactly the same but different? What do you think we can make of this?
Tell us what your problem is. It's a bit hazy today so the magic glass ball has some trouble showing us clear details.