Help! Repairing water damaged PCB from Massage chair.

[dorke]

It is bed time for me.

Next step is inserting the IC in the control board (no power).
and Testing voltages:
1.RN,PD on the connector CN115 relative to GND.
a.not activated -should be 0V
b.activated -should be up to 5V
What do we get?
2.pins 2-red to 3-black of the opto (activated and not)
what do we get?
3. pins 6-Red to 5-black of the opto(activated and not)- HV side!
what do we get?

 

[Jonawald]

O.k. the LED in the opto looks fine (test #4).
But,can you please repeat test #1 and #2.

Did as soon as you said there was a question about it. I did again now. There is nothing to report. It is still the same.

 

[Jonawald]

I think you may be mis-reading the traces. I tried to make the traces more clear in the image below but still couldn't get the traces in the area of concern to show up right so I dew them in. The GND trace you asked me to use does not come anywhere close to those optioisolators. Or am I misreading something here?

In my mind I cannot make sense of those two resistors. They seem to be creating a loop. If there is an LED in there. I cannot see a way to turn it on with those two resistors placed as they are. Please explain.

 

[dorke]

Yes, I have mis-red the traces.
Can you please post a print side only photo ,
the overlay is obscuring part of the traces.

The circuit goes like this than:
To activate the opto the ,controller needs to feed GND at the control pin of the main board.
Without the IC in the socket ,you should measure(relative to GND) 5V on pins 2 and 3 of the opto and the cntl pin on the connector.
What is the voltage you get at the RN,PD output connectors CN7,CN8?

A side note:
Pins(16,17) of the IC connected to the cntl pins on the main board are very likely operated as PWM signals.
I wouldn't try to connect a wire in the socket like we did in the non-clicking relays case.
In this case , We shall try to use the IC to provide the correct signal(hopefully it does),but only later on.

BTW,
the 14.8K you measured(in ohm test) between pins 2 and 3 of the opto is the sum of the resistors.

 

[Jonawald]

Not sure how much time I will get to spend with this today. Have a few things I want to do this afternoon. Might not have time till the evening here. Which turns out to be after bedtime for you. Oh. well. One day at a time.

Edit. BTW I took out that connector CN15 yesterday and re-did the soldering. Looks a bit better now than in the picture.

 

[Jonawald]

Hi. I did some more searching for a model number on the chair and finally found one on a small plate. It is not a Cozzia as I thought. The model is SL-A12 manufactured in China. I sent an inquiry to the manufacture but given that the last time he was at this site, was in 2011. I am not so sure about getting a response. I will try to do more digging. If anybody out there can lend some information here, it would be appreciated.

Jonathan

http://sallyma.en.made-in-china.com...assage-Chair-Music-Massage-Chair-SL-A12-.html

 

[dorke]

Here the manufecturer site iREST(the SL-A12 is on the product list and you can download a very basic manual .RAR file).
You can contact them here about User Manual ,Service Manual, and IC replacmeant.
The fect that it is a chineese firm compliactes thing a lot,
but try and see...lets hop to be supriezed for the better.

About the main board:
Can you please make the tests from post #184,I repeat them here:

1.Without the IC in the socket ,you should measure(relative to GND)
5V on pins 2 and 3 of the optos and the cntl pins on the connector.

2.What is the voltage you get at the RN,PD output connectors CN7,CN8
in the above conditions?

And another thing,
In the photos of the back of the chair/Motors there are small boards (post #59 ).
Where are they connected to and how?
These boards have opto-devices on them(black U like parts),
are there any wheels/other parts going through them?

 

[Jonawald]

I sent off an email requesting the IC, service manual and user manual. Hopefully they will respond favourably.

School starts today. I will try to get on to those tests after school is out. For now, I gotta go get ready for my students. My time will be a bit more limited now. I'm glad we got so far over my break. I really hope we catch a piece of luck with that IC. The china thing worries me a bit.

 

[Jonawald]

View attachment 24234 View attachment 24235 View attachment 24236 View attachment 24237
Well Shoot. I got this ready yesterday and must have left my computer before I hit post. And here I was wondering why everybody abandoned me. Well here you go. Answers to all the unanswered questions so far.

Here the
manufecturer site iREST(the SL-A12 is on the product list and you can download a very basic manual .RAR file).
You can contact them here about User Manual ,Service Manual, and IC replacmeant.
The fect that it is a chineese firm compliactes thing a lot,
but try and see...lets hop to be supriezed for the better.

About the main board:
Can you please make the tests from post #184,I repeat them here:

1.Without the IC in the socket ,you should measure(relative to GND)
5V on pins 2 and 3 of the optos and the cntl pins on the connector. I get 5v on both pin 2 and 3 of both optos

2.What is the voltage you get at the RN,PD output connectors CN7,CN8
in the above conditions? CN7 RN-CON has 163VDC CN8 PD-CON has nothing... half a volt. I have noticed that when I touch the heat sink of the K1358 on the CN7 side i get a slight jolt. Not sure if that's related to the 160V there or if there's something wrong with it.

And another thing,
In the photos of the back of the chair/Motors there are small boards (post #59 ).
Where are they connected to and how?
These boards have opto-devices on them(black U like parts),
are there any wheels/other parts going through them?

Ok i tried to take pictures so that the wire colours could be seen and where they are connected to the board. It breaks down to CN35 and a connector labels in very small letters MgDetect. See attached pictures. View attachment 24234 View attachment 24235 View attachment 24236 View attachment 24237

EDIT: I took out the pictures because I want to annotate some stuff on them to make things more clear.

 

[Jonawald]

Ok. I have tried as well as I can to detail where all the sensor wires go. There are two sensors for traveler up/ Traveler Down. Two sensors for width, Width A/B. Then there is another sensor underneath the big AC motor that moves the traveler up and down. I am guessing that's a position sensor.

What I cannot understand from all this is where does this outfit get it's 12V power. If you look at the picture of the connectors, both blacks are tied into the same pin on the connector. The same is for the Grey GND. (Some how my Grey, White and Black arrows moved away from the connector.) I you look at the black arrow with the ? mark you will see that there is no connection to the 12V rail for this pin on the connector. The black 12V wires are tied together to this pin. The resistor has a 0 on it. And I don't think it was ever there.

 

[dorke]

Ok. I have tried as well as I can to detail where all the sensor wires go. There are two sensors for traveler up/ Traveler Down. Two sensors for width, Width A/B. Then there is another sensor underneath the big AC motor that moves the traveler up and down. I am guessing that's a position sensor.

What I cannot understand from all this is where does this outfit get it's 12V power. If you look at the picture of the connectors, both blacks are tied into the same pin on the connector. The same is for the Grey GND. (Some how my Grey, White and Black arrows moved away from the connector.) I you look at the black arrow with the ? mark you will see that there is no connection to the 12V rail for this pin on the connector. The black 12V wires are tied together to this pin. The resistor has a 0 on it. And I don't think it was ever there.


View attachment 24277 View attachment 24278 View attachment 24279 View attachment 24280 View attachment 24281 View attachment 24282

As it is,
on CN35 there is no connection to 12V the "spider web" photo from #7 confirms that you started that way.
The 12V must get to the opto boards via the brown-wire on connector "MgDetect".

There is hop that the IC isn't bad,
it may be that it wouldn't "issue" an activate signal for the motors if there is a problem with the position/limit sensing boards or related circuit on the control board.

Look at the photo below,can you confirm?
and,Is there only one motor in that photo?

Can you please edit all the "motor and sensor" photos in a large single photo and show how they are connected to each other and the main and control board?

 

[Jonawald]

Ok. I tried to do as you asked. Hope I'm clear enough to not cause more confusion. The large arrows represent bundles of wire. The small coloured arrows represent wires of that colour.

There are two Black motors as pictured. One is mounted on the X axis and the other on the Y axis so to speak. Then there are also two smaller vibrate motors attached to the massage heads. One pictured the other hidden.

I agree with you that there must be a pat for the 12V to get around but I haven't figured it out yet. Especially in the case of the sensor under the frame. I guess that sensor tells exactly where up/down the carriage is. I cannot see how that can get its 12V feed.

I have not seen a motor capacitor for those DC motors. There is a large black 12μF capacitor for the AC motor driving the carriage up and down.

 

[dorke]

1.That doesn't paint a full clear picture.
If possible take one single picture that includes all the motors, mechanisms,"limit switches" etc.
one we can relate to , and try to decipher how things are connected.

2.There are some measurements on post #187 on the main board you haven't done them yet.

 

[Jonawald]

1.That doesn't paint a full clear picture.
If possible take one single picture that includes all the motors, mechanisms,"limit switches" etc.
one we can relate to , and try to decipher how things are connected.

2.There are some measurements on post #187 on the main board you haven't done them yet.

here are the measurements from post 187 cut and pasted here from post 188.


About the main board:
Can you please make the tests from post #184,I repeat them here:

1.Without the IC in the socket ,you should measure(relative to GND)
5V on pins 2 and 3 of the optos and the cntl pins on the connector. I get 5v on both pin 2 and 3 of both optos

2.What is the voltage you get at the RN,PD output connectors CN7,CN8
in the above conditions? CN7 RN-CON has 163VDC CN8 PD-CON has nothing... half a volt. I have noticed that when I touch the heat sink of the K1358 on the CN7 side i get a slight jolt. Not sure if that's related to the 160V there or if there's something wrong with it.

And another thing,
In the photos of the back of the chair/Motors there are small boards (post #59 ).
Where are they connected to and how?

Yes, there are thee boards with sensors. Two along the side one at the top of the carriage travel and one at the bottom. They are linked by the green red and black wires. I am guessing one is the upper limit. The other near the bottom is lower limit I'm guessing. The third is at the arrow by width Sensors in above post. They all have parts or wheels going through them.

The width sensor has two optical sensors. One slightly on the inside seems to measure increments because the wheel going through it has four or five blades that pass through. The other set slightly outside seems to be limit sensing as it has only a blade at the end of the wheel travel to pass through it.

These boards have opto-devices on them(black U like parts),
are there any wheels/other parts going through them?


I am not sure how to make things more clearer than I already have. So here's a clean uncluttered High Rez picture of the entire back of the chair. With that and the annotated pictures I have posted you should be able to make a working picture of everything. It is hard to take a picture showing all the motors because the wide motor is stuck at an angle that makes it hard to photograph that and the others too. It looks exactly like the black massage motor though.

 

[dorke]

O.K,
Let's do some tests on the up-down limit switch:
Insert the "MgDetect" and CN35 connectors.

1.Measure the voltage on the IC socket(without the IC) pins 37,38 relative to Gnd
(5v expected).

2.On the limit up/down boards:
Insert an object that doesn't pass light into the U-like opto-device in order to cut the light passing through it ( like a black plastic sheet etc. ,has to be large enough).
measure the voltage on pins 37,38
(0.9v expected) when "blocked",but I think we won't get it.

3. Measure the voltages on P1 of the down limit board.
Is there 12V ?( I think not).

4. What is written on the black U-like opto device?

5.Are there any devices except the opto device and a connector on the upper limit board?


Are the Limit up-down boards connected like this:

 

[Jonawald]

Ok. To answer some of your questions.

Pins 37/38 relative to GND 5V.

Here is where I got distracted. I looked at that array resistor and decided to check for 5V on all those pins connected to it. Should be there right? It wasn't there for one pin and I spent some time trying to learn why. It still isn't there I followed the trace to a S8050, Circled, and took it out to test it. It tested fine, but with it out there is 5V at that pin. Right now I am trying to figure out if this is supposed to happen or if there's something I need to be looking at here first.

The Upper and lower limit switches are as you described. Three wires then four wires. They are connected to CN35 and MGDetect as you described.

 

[dorke]

Well,
The 0.35V you measured on pin-34 is fine,it is expected for that pin.
Besides,it has nothing to do with the optos limit boards.
Let's not get distracted...

Can you please complete the tests/info on #195.

 

[Jonawald]

Well,
The 0.35V you measured on pin-34 is fine,it is expected for that pin.
Besides,it has nothing to do with the optos limit boards.
Let's not get distracted...

Can you please complete the tests/info on #195.

Ok Sorry for getting distracted.

I plugged in MgDetect and CN35 and did the tests. I used a piece of electrical tape between the forks for the opto sensor. No change on Pins 37 or 38. I tried blocking both the top sensor and the bottom sensor in turn. The one difference I noticed with the sensors plugged in was that the voltage on Pin 39 dropped from 5V to .12V.

There is no power at the bottom sensor. There is nothing on the top limit board other than the u-shaped opto sensor. There are 3 wires from bottom sensor board to top as you though.

I couldn't find any writing on the limit sensors.

Jonathan

 

[dorke]

Well,
Since there is no 12V on the opto boards ;it is clear they will not work.
We have to repair that by inserting a jumper wire(resistor leg etc.) near CN35(blue on the photo below ,insert it on the Component Side and solder it on the PS) to supply the 12V.
I know you started without the wire,that means somebody worked on the board before you and most probably took the wire out.

After that please measure the following:


1. Measure the 12V on P1 of the down limit board.


2.Measure the voltage on the IC socket(without the IC) pins 37,38 relative to Gnd
what do we get?


3.On the limit up/down boards:
Insert an object that doesn't pass light into the U-like opto-device in order to cut the light passing through it ( like a black plastic sheet etc. ,has to be large enough).
measure the voltage on pins 37,38.
what do we get?

 

[Jonawald]

ok. Now things are making a bit more sense. I first checked Pin39 with the sensors plugged in. Where I got 0V before, now I get 12V on that pin. Then I checked everything else with sensors open. 5V on Pins 37 and 38. When I taped over the light sensors I was able to turn the 5V into 0 for each of those two pins depending on where I put the tape. The jumper worked as expected.