OT: Nitrogen filled tires

[Rich Grise]

How do they cope with the oxygen on the outside of the tire? Do they land
the plane in a pure nitrogen atmosphere?

The oxygen on the outside of the tire isn't at 150-200 PSIG, more like
3 PSIA. (approx 20% of 1 atmosphere).

And what the hell do I know? I didn't design the damn things!

Cheers!
Rich

 

[John Larkin]

No,he's right;those wheel spinners use low friction bearings,and any crud
will stop them.
all that mass will take MORE force to spin up.
(besides the force needed to compress air to over 35 PSI.)
You aren't going to get enough force with a wheel-spinner,"properly
geared" or not.
well,make a prototype and SHOW us.
You could get it on America's Next Inventor TV show,maybe they will fund
your project.I'll be waiting.




"most" gas stations have free air? Not in Orlando.
Most have changed to coin-operated compressors,and often have been
vandalized,hoses cut.Hess is the only one left with free air.

California has a law that gas stations must provide free air and water
for customers.

I ended up buying my own portable 12V compressor,a nice one. Cost me $21
USD.

I have one of those, but it's very slow, probably because it's rated
for 250 psi, which is insane.

At work we have a big compressor, and we put a tire-filler hose, with
gauge, on it for employees to use.

John

 

[Rich Grise]

You just made that up. You sure didn't do the math!


It wouldn't take a lot of average power to keep a tire inflated.
Spinning a reasonably massive disk up and down all day, hundreds of
times probably, to numbers like 500 RPM maybe, could do a fair amount
of work.


Sure it would, easily. I'm not so sure that people would buy it, given
that air is still free at most gas stations.

Free air? Do they also have a guy who comes out and asks, "fill 'er up?"

Where do I find this time warp? ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[John Larkin]

Absolutely not, jackass. I told you that you were wrong because you
ARE wrong. It will NOT work.

Do the math. It's easy.

John

 

[John Larkin]

"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's
game because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be
indistinguishable from -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds
possessing infinite amounts of free time."
-Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_


My accomplishments are public knowledge. Anyone who wishes can
check my references and buy products that I have created. I would
be quite interested in what "ChairmanOfTheBored" -- who claims
that an obviously workable design of mine will not work --

Which one?

John

 

[John Larkin]

How retarded to say that.

Geez, you wouldn't FILL the tire with the stuff. See my comment about
it keeping up the pressure "until it's all gone."

John

 

[Rich Grise]

No,he's right;those wheel spinners use low friction bearings,and any
crud will stop them.

So, instead of a bling-bling spinner, you use a weighted wheel, like
those rotation counters you see on some buses and trucks. Of course,
you could bling it up, but it wouldn't be as pimpy at the stop lights.
For that matter, you could use a centrifugal clutch, to disengage
below some RPM so your pimp spinners would continue to sparkle. ;-)

Or, just hide the weighted part behind the bling.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

You define yourself by the things you refuse to believe are possible.

What does that make me? I believe in telepathy, empathy, levitation,
(albeit we have a lot of (un)learning to do to accomplish the latter);
space/time warps, transmutation, zero-point energy; past lives, parallel
lives, elves, faeries, gnomes, satyrs, whatever - all we need to do is
expand on the current definition of "the laws of physics".

I can already hear the shouts or "CRACKPOT!!!!", but not to worry -
I'm not yet skilled enough in the "black arts" to actually implement
any of them. )-;

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

some people believe in horoscopes and magic.

show me I'm wrong.(about a wheel spinner tire pump.)
that's all I'm asking.

Mind the wrap:
http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid...&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page
http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid...&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page
http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid...&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

If you can turn a counter, you can gear it down and turn a pump.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

 

[Guy Macon]

My speculation: As you heat up materials that contain hydrocarbons,
they tend emit a gas that will burn at a lower temperature than
the temperature of actually igniting (soldering). In a tire, the
gas on the inside can build up a concentration that wouldnt occur
on the outside, and the bulk of the interior could become filled
with a fuel/air mixture. Not good. I imagine that an airplane
tire that is on fire but still inflated is safer during landing
than an airplane tire that is not on fire but is blown out.

Typo. I meant to write "smoldering," nor "soldering"...

 

[Guy Macon]

The tires emit flammable gasses when hot, which don't accumulate on
the outside but do on the inside, where the autoignition temperature
is further reduced by the higher than outside partial pressure of
oxygen.

You mean I can ignite a fuel-air mixture just by compressing it?
Hey! I could invent an engine based on that concept! And don't
let anyone tell you that Otto Diesel already invented it...

 

[Jim Stewart]

California has a law that gas stations must provide free air and water
for customers.


I have one of those, but it's very slow, probably because it's rated
for 250 psi, which is insane.

Not from the manufacturer's point of
view.

The unit does not have an overpressure
cutoff switch, which would probably add
another $20 to the cost.

Without one, they can just run the compressor
to stall, which probably works out to about
220 psi.

I once had a thought of making a cute little
vertical compressor, with the unit mounted
on top of an old Partytime helium container
for servicing my airplane. The lack of a
overpressure cutoff switch killed the
project.

 

[Guy Macon]

I did some math in my head last night, to lull myself to sleep.

Imagine a reasonable-mass metal ring parallel to the wheel, half the
diameter of the tire, connected by a disk or spokes to the pump shaft
at the center of the wheel, with the pump body fixed to the wheel.

Imagine a car accelerates to, say, 60 k/h and back to zero, maybe 20
times a day. One could get kilojoules of work per day at the pump
shaft, easily enough to keep a tire inflated. If you used a full-size
spinning wheel cover, the increased radius helps even more (squared,
even) and using air drag helps more yet, since that add a continuous
power source that increases greatly with speed.

Do the math... it's easy.

I did some back-of-the envelope calculations and came to about the
same answer John Larkin did. The available energy is orders of
magnitude larger than required to compress such a tiny amount of
air. Which is good, because you don't want to change the way the
things speed up and slow down by more than 5% or so. They key is
the tiny amount of air needed to handle normal tire leakage.

I am envisioning a chunk of iron (or mayby two or three) on
the spinner that passes by a movable magnet on the wheel with
a return spring. The motion of the magnet drives a tiny
reciprocating pump (possibly through a lever or gear mechanism
to trade off distance and accelleration to give the pump what
it likes). The whole thing could screw on the air valve.
A weight for the other side of the wheel would avoid most
balancing issues.

Idea above hereby released to public domain. I would like to
see someone build and market it.

 

[Richard Henry]

What does that make me? I believe in telepathy, empathy, levitation,
(albeit we have a lot of (un)learning to do to accomplish the latter);
space/time warps, transmutation, zero-point energy; past lives, parallel
lives, elves, faeries, gnomes, satyrs, whatever - all we need to do is
expand on the current definition of "the laws of physics".

You also smoke and make rationalizations about why it is not unhealthy
for you.

 

[John Larkin]

No,he's right;those wheel spinners use low friction bearings,and any crud
will stop them.

So, you won't do the math either.

John

 

[John Larkin]

Free air? Do they also have a guy who comes out and asks, "fill 'er up?"

Where do I find this time warp? ;-)

In that mystical land called "California."

John

 

[Guy Macon]

Which one?

The (still in preliminary stage, not a completed design) tire
inflator/spinner design. He says (see above) that it won't
work, using a sophisticated analysis technique that consists
of asserting that various folks are "obviously too stupid to
see that it would not work" rather than doing some simple
calculations. I did the calculations and I say that it is
workable -- or to be more precise, if it isn't workable it
won't be because a spinner has too little energy available
to keep a tire from slowly losing pressure.

 

[Jim Yanik]

And other people believe in mathematics. They're called "engineers."



I did some math in my head last night, to lull myself to sleep.

Imagine a reasonable-mass metal ring parallel to the wheel, half the
diameter of the tire, connected by a disk or spokes to the pump shaft
at the center of the wheel, with the pump body fixed to the wheel.

Imagine a car accelerates to, say, 60 k/h and back to zero, maybe 20
times a day. One could get kilojoules of work per day at the pump
shaft, easily enough to keep a tire inflated. If you used a full-size
spinning wheel cover, the increased radius helps even more (squared,
even) and using air drag helps more yet, since that add a continuous
power source that increases greatly with speed.

Do the math... it's easy.

John

You are neglecting how little work you can get from the AIRFLOW that a
sideways fan assembly will get.
Your powerful ram air generator has it's fan blades oriented facing the
airflow.Spinners are sideways to that airflow,and you would need some
ducting to direct the airflow to propel the blades.

you just are not going to get any useful energy transfer from the spinning
auto wheel to your pump gearing. You evidently have not observed a wheel
spinner in action,or you'd know what I'm talking about.

 

[Jim Yanik]

California has a law that gas stations must provide free air and water
for customers.

California has LOTS of laws.More every week,too.
However,other states are far different,thankfully.

I have one of those, but it's very slow, probably because it's rated
for 250 psi, which is insane.

At work we have a big compressor, and we put a tire-filler hose, with
gauge, on it for employees to use.

John

My Cyclone MF-1040 is rated for 150 PSI,*30 CFM*.
It's not one of those cheapo auto compressors.
It draws up to 15 amps,it's a 1/3 HP motor.It fills a tire quickly.

 

[Jim Yanik]

So, you won't do the math either.

John

Math without practical experience is useless.