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OT: Nitrogen filled tires

J

John Larkin

But I don't like the idea, too cumbersome and delicate, and the
spinners would look lousy on my Yugo. Plus the extra unsprung weight
would spoil its handling.
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah, I hadn't thought of that. There goes half of my market.

What is wrong with the usual approach of instaling a compressed air
rotary joint on each axle, connected to the tire through a Schrader
valve in the wheel (so it holds air when removed). The stationary end
of each rotary joint connects to a pressure transducer and fill (from
engine driven compressor) and vent solenoid valves, controlled by the
tire inflation computer. A dashboard control lets the driver adjust
tire inflation from inside, so for instance pressure could be dropped
to 20 PSIG for driving on sand and back to 32 for highway driving, or
upped a bit for driving in rain. This arrangement works pretty well
on my Yugo :).
Click to expand...

On the inside-side of the wheel, there's lots of stationary stuff very
close to rotating stuff... lots of opportunities to directly glom onto
some relative motion.

Why don't we power a bunch of blue spinning led's while we're at it?

Hey! Modify the existing spinning bling things: some supermagnets
stuck to the wheel, coils and led's on the spinning wheel cover.

John
 
J

John Larkin

My thought was a diaphragm type pump built into the wheel itself. As
the wheel rotates it passes a magnet attached to the strut.

...Jim Thompson
Click to expand...

That's good for OEM, not so good for retrofit.

It makes more sense to me to add auto-fillers, as an alternate to the
upcoming federally-mandated tire pressure sensors, which will
apparently be mems pressure sensors, rf links, and lithium batteries
inside every tire.

John
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

No, MissingProng can't do math at all. He's entirely number-phobic.
Click to expand...


You're an idiot. I can do the math without even making a single actual
calculation. It is 100% obvious that it is a futile endeavor, and then
there are several other factors that make it a prohibitive venture.

The term for today is:

UNSPRUNG WEIGHT

You know... that thing that one does NOT want to add to their
suspension assembly, particularly at the wheel... ;-]
 
J

John Larkin

We're no longer talking about the bling-bling pimp spinners, but
something that's weighted, possibly hidden inside the hubcap or
embedded in the wheel itself - you can still put the bling on
the outside.

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...

No, let's do the pimp-bling spinney things. That would work in both
inertial (accel/decel mode) and steady-state freeway mode, from air
drag.

John
 
J

John Larkin

You STILL don't get it. When the car brakes, the spinner assembly you
are on about is ALSO decelerated. Near ZERO net energy.
Click to expand...

It gets the force to decelerate it through the pump shaft. The
accel/decel torque comes from compressing air. It would slow down
faster than a free-spinning bling-thing, because we're stealing stored
angular momentum to do work. A little cleverness in valving would stop
loading it at low speeds, so we'd still have some glam.

John
 
J

John Larkin

The (still in preliminary stage, not a completed design) tire
inflator/spinner design. He says (see above) that it won't
work, using a sophisticated analysis technique that consists
of asserting that various folks are "obviously too stupid to
see that it would not work" rather than doing some simple
calculations. I did the calculations and I say that it is
workable -- or to be more precise, if it isn't workable it
won't be because a spinner has too little energy available
to keep a tire from slowly losing pressure.
Click to expand...


http://www.google.com/patents?id=pAQbAAAAEBAJ&dq=5591281

John
 
J

John Larkin

You're an idiot. I can do the math without even making a single actual
calculation.
Click to expand...

That's very Zen: doing the math without doing the math.
It is 100% obvious that it is a futile endeavor, and then
there are several other factors that make it a prohibitive venture.

The term for today is:

UNSPRUNG WEIGHT

You know... that thing that one does NOT want to add to their
suspension assembly, particularly at the wheel... ;-]
Click to expand...

Gosh, why do people have wheel covers?

John
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

No, let's do the pimp-bling spinney things. That would work in both
inertial (accel/decel mode) and steady-state freeway mode, from air
drag.

John
Click to expand...


Yeah, the wind would make the pimp bling spinney thing work. But it
wouldn't DO any WORK. When you hook it up to your compressor load, it
would fail miserably.. Then, there's that unsprung weight thingy again.
Nobody in their right mind would buy it, when my shock absorber version
would work much better.
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

It gets the force to decelerate it through the pump shaft. The
accel/decel torque comes from compressing air. It would slow down
faster than a free-spinning bling-thing, because we're stealing stored
angular momentum to do work. A little cleverness in valving would stop
loading it at low speeds, so we'd still have some glam.
Click to expand...

Even worse! Now you want it to free spin at an intersection and be
decoupled from your zero force required compressor?!

Hahahaha!

Why don't you complicate it some more, and put sensors on it, and
BlueTooth them up to a dashboard readout!?
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

You're an idiot. I can do the math without even making a single actual
calculation.
Click to expand...

That's very Zen: doing the math without doing the math.
It is 100% obvious that it is a futile endeavor, and then
there are several other factors that make it a prohibitive venture.

The term for today is:

UNSPRUNG WEIGHT

You know... that thing that one does NOT want to add to their
suspension assembly, particularly at the wheel... ;-]
Click to expand...

Gosh, why do people have wheel covers?
Click to expand...

Gosh, why do people use Aluminum wheels now?

Why are "wheel covers" plastic now?

Get a clue, John. The patent you cited is retarded, or it would be a
viable product by now, and it isn't. The idea you cited SOUNDS good, but
is NOT a good idea, for the reasons I cited.


Move the mechanism to the suspension, and you'll actually have
something. The losses incurred during a fill/top off operation in the
interface between the compressor surge tank/regulator assembly, and the
spinning wheel are near nil, and easily overcome.

Big trucks do it ALL THE TIME. Except they use engine driven
compressors and HUGE surge tanks. That's what that HISS you hear
releasing every now and then from a truck is (aside from the air brakes).
It is called a relief valve. Your CRAP would never fill a surge tank up
enough to spring a relief valve... EVER.
 
R

Richard Henry

You're in Oregon here aren't you, guy? My experience with those coin-operated
units is that they're generally poorly maintained and typically undersized
(leading to very long fill times) in the first place -- using them is a much
worse experience than in "the old days" when pretty much all gas stations had
*decent* air compressors that you could use *for free*.

The cost of a compressor and its maintenance and electrical usage probably
amounts to about 1/100 of a penny per customer per visit!

Make no mistake -- the coin-operated units were introduced as revenue
enhancers, not just as a means to get air to pay for itself.

Do you think that gas stations should start having pay toilets as well? :)
They're certainly *far* more expensive to maintain than an air compressor is!

---Joel
Click to expand...

Most gas stations that provide repair service need a compressor
anyway. Allowing the public to top off tires is a trivial public
realtions expense.

However, many modern stations have no service capability at all. They
sell gas, oil and snacks.
 
J

Jim Yanik

In NY, any station that has air for their use must supply it free for
customers. This gets the quicky-mart off the hook for free air.
Service stations with mechanics (that change oil, for example) must
also accept small amounts of oil from anyone who comes in off the
street. Both are reasonable.
Click to expand...

In Orlando,there are few service stations that have repair bays/mechanics.
My wife bought one because the couldn't figure out how to turn my
compressor on (it's in the basement) and burned up the 120V tire
pump. The thing is pretty much useless.
Click to expand...

google the MF-1040,I bought it at PepBoys.
It runs on 12 volts DC from your cig lighter outlet.
As I said,it's not one of those cheapo auto compressors.
 
J

Jim Yanik

You're an idiot. I can do the math without even making a single actual
calculation.
Click to expand...

That's very Zen: doing the math without doing the math.
It is 100% obvious that it is a futile endeavor, and then
there are several other factors that make it a prohibitive venture.

The term for today is:

UNSPRUNG WEIGHT

You know... that thing that one does NOT want to add to their
suspension assembly, particularly at the wheel... ;-]
Click to expand...

Gosh, why do people have wheel covers?

John
Click to expand...

Generally found on NON-performance autos.
(ones people don't care about handling or unsprung weight)

Also,often found on the side of the road after passing a pothole. ;-)
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

Most gas stations that provide repair service need a compressor
anyway. Allowing the public to top off tires is a trivial public
realtions expense.

However, many modern stations have no service capability at all. They
sell gas, oil and snacks.
Click to expand...

Highly overpriced on all three.
 
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