Wow, first lead-free victim: Microsoft Xbox 1 billion damage

[Jan Panteltje]

Consider yourself dismissed as an idiot k00k. Just saying things doesn't make then
true.


Graham

Well I guess it is a bit beyong rabbits understanding and also beyond your autority
to dismiss anyone but yourself.
Now step on it.

 

[John Larkin]

I understand German well but I fail to see any mention of being a victim
of lead-free soldering in that article.

Not that I like RoHS. I don't like it at all.

My brother-in-law is a manager at Textron, doing military stuff. He
tells me that they send out tens of thousands of ICs a month to have
their leads retinned with leaded solder. It's expensive.

John

 

[Joerg]

Silly rabbit. He was talking about the XBox 360 being an industry
victim.

Subject line of this thread:
"Wow, first lead-free victim: Microsoft Xbox 1 billion damage"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Joerg]

Als eine mögliche Fehlerursache vermuten Experten das auf der Platine
--------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^----------^^^^^^^^
verwendete bleifreie Lot, das wegen der häufigen Temperaturwechsel brüchig
-----------^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
werden könnte.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^




Also warum nicht?

"vermuten" ist "assume". I'd have expected a wee bit more meat here ;-)

 

[Joerg]

My brother-in-law is a manager at Textron, doing military stuff. He
tells me that they send out tens of thousands of ICs a month to have
their leads retinned with leaded solder. It's expensive.

For good reason I guess. I had to order a VME extender a while ago and
it came only in lead-free. So I ordered it. When I took a close look at
the solder joints I almost felt sick :-(

 

[Jan Panteltje]

"vermuten" ist "assume". I'd have expected a wee bit more meat here ;-)

Experts assume ? Pretty strong.
Almost as strong as WMDs in Iraq, maybe even stronger.

 

[Joerg]

Experts assume ? Pretty strong.

Only if accompanied by evidence. Microscope photos, names, telephone
numbers ....

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Only if accompanied by evidence. Microscope photos, names, telephone
numbers ....

As millions of people have xbox360 anyone can open it and look.
Heise.de is very very reliable in reporting, it is not like some
of those quack sites.
And they have some very knowledgeable experts themselves, I guess if you
are in severe doubt about what they write, you can email them, you can, as
you are good in German, reply to the article in the forum simply
by registering your name and clicking on the link at the bottom of the page:
'Kommentare lesen (86 Beiträge)'
So far 86 responses (in German).

 

[James Arthur]

If they can make up nukes in Iraq, changing DU content in a plane is kids stuff.
I have seen that man selling fish and chips stands as biological weapon labs
to the UN.

hehe
LOL

But,
a) they didn't make that up (no one ever said Saddam *had* nukes,
the claim was that he was trying to get them, and getting closer)
b) he did have such a program, as was verified by inspectors after
the first Gulf War
c) if we assume a recent conspiracy, or to the extent recent claims
were overwrought, any coverup wasn't very successful, was it?

So when you say "If they can make up nukes in Iraq..." I'd reply
"They couldn't!"

Any use of DU in planes--built and worked on over decades (and
several presidents) by countless civilian contractors with no security
clearances, and under full supervision of several political
administrations (the government has physical custody of the material,
oversees, licenses and distributes it)--would seem a lot harder to
keep secret than a few classified reports from spies about the most
secret aspirations of a closed society. And they couldn't keep the
latter secret, could they?

Also, as I pointed out before, radiation is extremely easy to
detect--anyone with a geiger counter can detect the smallest amounts--
so hard scientific data on the crash sites would be impossible to
hide, if they were actually "hot." One website you quoted reported
elevated readings, but only a few times more than background, nothing
extraordinary. And are readings still elevated, either at the
Pentagon or in New York I'm sure we'd know if they were. So how does
one explain that if there was DU on site? Has that alleged material
experienced a magically accelerated decay rate? It doesn't fit.

So, believe what you wish, but I'd believe Boeing, their many
employees and contractors, and the several controlling civilian
government agencies over the past few decades--hundreds and hundreds
of civilians in total--when they say there's no DU on 757s or
767s.

With warm regards,
James Arthur

 

[Joerg]

As millions of people have xbox360 anyone can open it and look.

Therefore, I would have expected that experts do so before making a
pretty strong statement. Maybe they did, we'll see. I don't have an
X-Box or any other such console for that matter. We rely on
old-fashioned equipment for entertainment. Organ, piano etc.

Heise.de is very very reliable in reporting, it is not like some
of those quack sites.

Yep, they sure are good. That's why this statement without an attached
image took me by surprise.

And they have some very knowledgeable experts themselves, I guess if you
are in severe doubt about what they write, you can email them, you can, as
you are good in German, reply to the article in the forum simply
by registering your name and clicking on the link at the bottom of the page:
'Kommentare lesen (86 Beiträge)'
So far 86 responses (in German).

Done. I emailed the author. I wish they would state the author's name up
top like others do so I could have addressed him/her properly. But at
least they gave the email address.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

So, believe what you wish, but I'd believe Boeing,

I have leaned the hard way long time ago that it does not work arguing with anybodies beliefs.

You may well be right, my 'belief' is that I have reservations about this.
In fact I do not believe any statement made by huge companies at all,
I have worked for huge companies (not Boeing), and I will be no whistle blower.
It is not all the way it looks, but you probably already knew that.
The higher you go the weirder it becomes.
When all at the top in a white house the ratio truth / lies may well be 100% under control of
the goal.
That sentence correct? I think so.

their many
employees and contractors, and the several controlling civilian
government agencies over the past few decades--hundreds and hundreds
of civilians in total--when they say there's no DU on 757s or
767s.

With warm regards,
James Arthur

Scene one, Take one:
Look guys, you work here, want to keep working here? (Holds up piece of plutonium with
pliers, vapour coming of it, radiation meters in corner) This is Swiss Cheese Right?
Choir sings: 'Yes Swiss Cheese Swiss Cheese it is we see'.


Come to think of it, oh, forget it...

 

[Richard The Dreaded Libertarian]

Consider yourself dismissed as an idiot k00k. Just saying things doesn't
make then true.

And denying facts doesn't make them go away. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Joerg]

As millions of people have xbox360 anyone can open it and look.
Heise.de is very very reliable in reporting, it is not like some
of those quack sites.
And they have some very knowledgeable experts themselves, I guess if you
are in severe doubt about what they write, you can email them, you can, as
you are good in German, reply to the article in the forum simply
by registering your name and clicking on the link at the bottom of the page:
'Kommentare lesen (86 Beiträge)'
So far 86 responses (in German).

Got an answer to my email already. Wow, that's impressive service. They
must be working late over there.

Anyhow, they wrote back that it is indeed as I had thought. No hard data
available. The lead-free solder issue is nothing more than an assumption
since MS did not reveal root causes.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

Got an answer to my email already. Wow, that's impressive service. They
must be working late over there.

Anyhow, they wrote back that it is indeed as I had thought. No hard data
available. The lead-free solder issue is nothing more than an assumption
since MS did not reveal root causes.

OK, so I do not have to worry about other new stuff I am buying falling apart....
Yes, it is known MS does not reveal details, I have read a transcript of the MS
conference where they acknowledged the problem and extended the warrantee.

Did they mention who 'the experts' were?

 

[James Arthur]

I have leaned the hard way long time ago that it does not work arguing with anybodies beliefs.

You may well be right, my 'belief' is that I have reservations about this.
In fact I do not believe any statement made by huge companies at all,
I have worked for huge companies (not Boeing), and I will be no whistle blower.
It is not all the way it looks, but you probably already knew that.
The higher you go the weirder it becomes.
When all at the top in a white house the ratio truth / lies may well be 100% under control of
the goal.
That sentence correct? I think so.



Scene one, Take one:
Look guys, you work here, want to keep working here? (Holds up piece of plutonium with
pliers, vapour coming of it, radiation meters in corner) This is Swiss Cheese Right?
Choir sings: 'Yes Swiss Cheese Swiss Cheese it is we see'.

Come to think of it, oh, forget it...

Sure, I acknowledge all the above, but if there was DU, there'd still
be radiation.

We haven't heard of any.

Do you really think no resident of New York or Washington D.C. has a
geiger counter? That citizens and local agencies haven't double-
checked these sites a hundred times over, especially with all the
concern over sicknesses? That there aren't hundreds of samples of the
dust and debris in the hands of many people, each one of which would
reveal any DU? That all seems very implausible.

Best wishes,
James Arthur

 

[James Arthur]

Got an answer to my email already. Wow, that's impressive service. They
must be working late over there.

Anyhow, they wrote back that it is indeed as I had thought. No hard data
available. The lead-free solder issue is nothing more than an assumption
since MS did not reveal root causes.

It's likely to be subjective anyhow--was the egg too weak, or did you
just drop it from too high? That is, was the failure because the
solder broke (i.e., the material), or because it was made to break
(i.e. thermal design)?

Cheers,
James Arthur

 

[Joerg]

OK, so I do not have to worry about other new stuff I am buying falling apart....

I do worry about that, especially after seeing some RoHS products myself.

My point was the subject line, suggesting there was evidence that there
is the first lead-free victim. There isn't any proof, at least nothing
public.

Yes, it is known MS does not reveal details, I have read a transcript of the MS
conference where they acknowledged the problem and extended the warrantee.

Did they mention who 'the experts' were?

No, he did not mention that. If you want to contact him click on the
"hag" below the article and it'll show his full email address. Then you
can ask him.

 

[Joerg]

It's likely to be subjective anyhow--was the egg too weak, or did you
just drop it from too high? That is, was the failure because the
solder broke (i.e., the material), or because it was made to break
(i.e. thermal design)?

With solder there are ways to investigate that. Just like there are with
the egg (testing shell strength, indentation etc.). I just don't like it
when journalism hints a certain theory and then there is no meat behind it.

 

[John Larkin]

Sure, I acknowledge all the above, but if there was DU, there'd still
be radiation.

We haven't heard of any.

Do you really think no resident of New York or Washington D.C. has a
geiger counter? That citizens and local agencies haven't double-
checked these sites a hundred times over, especially with all the
concern over sicknesses? That there aren't hundreds of samples of the
dust and debris in the hands of many people, each one of which would
reveal any DU? That all seems very implausible.

Best wishes,
James Arthur

I was wandering around a small Louisiana town with a geiger counter
some years back, and the hottest thing around was the post office,
made of red brick.

John

 

[Spurious Response]

Subject line of this thread:
"Wow, first lead-free victim: Microsoft Xbox 1 billion damage"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, ding dong! The XBOX 360 is the first victim of the lead free
industry move.

Get a clue. He is not talking about a person.