Re: What's that black dust in monitors?

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Very common in and near Philadelphia!

Completely irrelevant. You have to explain how monitors
used here in houses with only electrical heating and cooking
get that jet black soot on all areas adjacent to the FBT.

Thats the EVIDENCE that it cant be coming
from the oil heater combustion products.

Basic logic.

The brown color is mainly from nitrogen dioxide,

Its more complicated than that. Its mostly brown because
of the particle size. You get brown even from just dust.

which is usually the 3rd worst pollutant in the
Philadelphia area in terms of health even though
it colors the air more than soot and ozone do.

You dont get much jet black soot in the air,
even when everyone is using wood heating.
You get a very grey haze instead.

 

[Rod Speed]

Tried web searching... Looks like you're right on that one, and cobwebs
made solely of dust was something that I heard incorrectly before.

Yeah, you can certainly get dust sticking to what
are very light colored, almost transparent webs.

My cobwebs are definitely at least part dust and are usually
very dark in color, much darker than most of the dust in my home.

I dont get that at all. Not at all clear why mine are much lighter than yours.

The darkest mine ever get is a light grey, particularly when its
been rolled up. Mostly they are a buff/beige/light brown color.

 

[DarkMatter]

I said you were a fool first - so there!

My entire point was that IDIOTS like you that go 'round calling
others "fool" are the true fools. Ever gander in your bible where the
lord says "Never say 'thou fool'". ??? Huh, you dipshit?

 

[DarkMatter]

I just tried adding some water to some ordinary dust and rubbing it
with my fingers. It got darker, but not jet black like the dust in TV
sets. I think some kinds of dust particles are more atracted to the high
voltage points in TV sets than other kinds are.

Either that, or it gets carburized by the corona.

I do know for a fact that Flyback xformers do NOT exhibit
particulate... just volts.

WHatever the "TYPE" of dust, it certainly is sourced externally. My
monitor here right in front of me is that way... even on the exterior,
in the area of the anode supply hardware.

It is VERY dusty in this reclaimed dessert portion of California.
Ny monitors and the PCs have to be cleaned often. The monitor, once a
year, and the PCs 4 or more times a year. All since I moved out here
from the more coastal area I was at.

The idiot that thinks his FBT gives off "black soot" is merely an
abject idiot, nothing more.

 

[Mike Harding]

My entire point was that IDIOTS like you that go 'round calling
others "fool" are the true fools. Ever gander in your bible where the
lord says "Never say 'thou fool'". ??? Huh, you dipshit?

Ha! You don't fool me!

Mike Harding

PS. I don't own a copy of the bible. Anyway, I know how it
ends.

 

[DarkMatter]

snip

Completely irrelevant. You have to explain how monitors
used here in houses with only electrical heating and cooking
get that jet black soot on all areas adjacent to the FBT.

Thats the EVIDENCE that it cant be coming
from the oil heater combustion products.

Basic logic.



Its more complicated than that. Its mostly brown because
of the particle size. You get brown even from just dust.


You dont get much jet black soot in the air,
even when everyone is using wood heating.
You get a very grey haze instead.

WOW! You are a true expert! N O T !!!

 

[Rob Judd]

It's a mote in your eye, you fucking clueless retard.

The word is MOOT, dumbshit.

It's a pun, pal.

Rob

 

[DarkMatter]

Seems to be too much particulate matter flying around on this thread !

Said the person that just contributed some of it.

 

[Don Klipstein]

Completely irrelevant. You have to explain how monitors
used here in houses with only electrical heating and cooking
get that jet black soot on all areas adjacent to the FBT.

Thats the EVIDENCE that it cant be coming
from the oil heater combustion products.

Basic logic.



Its more complicated than that. Its mostly brown because
of the particle size. You get brown even from just dust.

I see enough air that is fairly transparent but brownish. That's when
nitrogen dioxide is a more significant factor than dust particles large
enough to easily scatter light when isolated.

You dont get much jet black soot in the air,
even when everyone is using wood heating.
You get a very grey haze instead.

Wood makes gray haze from larger tarry particles and ash, diesel makes
realy fine soot - maybe mostly in particles less than half a wavelength
wide, which don't easily scatter light. And maybe the fine soot particles
don't scatter much light because they are black.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Rod Speed]

I see enough air that is fairly transparent but brownish.

Yeah, stands out like dogs balls when you fly into Sydney
in the right weather conditions. Its got the right conditions
for that sort of smog buildup and that brown haze is
utterly obscene in the right weather conditions.

That's when nitrogen dioxide is a more significant factor than
dust particles large enough to easily scatter light when isolated.

Nope, it isnt mostly NOx

And you get a completely different effect when there is a bushfire
problem, completely different color, pale grey instead, tho you can
get some very spectacular visual effects at sunset in that situation.
That sunset effect is the evidence that its not primarily a NOx effect.

Its the same effect that makes the sky blue.

Wood makes gray haze from larger tarry particles and ash,

It hasnt got anything to do with ash at all, its just what makes smoke
grey. And that varys dramatically with the wetness of the wood.

diesel makes realy fine soot

Yes, but you dont get much of that rising to any great extent.

- maybe mostly in particles less than half a
wavelength wide, which don't easily scatter light.

Thats utterly mangling the light scatter effect too.

And maybe the fine soot particles don't
scatter much light because they are black.

Scatter has nothing to do with the color, its a size effect.

 

[DarkMatter]

Yeah, stands out like dogs balls when you fly into Sydney
in the right weather conditions.

Ahhh... so now we know that this twit goes 'round looking at dogs'
balls.

 

[H. Dziardziel]

Often feels a bit greasy to me when I do that!


But where I live, half the time I work up a charge when I walk on my
carpet. 1/3 of the time I produce a serious charge dragging anything of
cloth over anything of a different fiber. And I believe this happens not
everywhere but a lot more than most people think, and DC electric fields
(although weaker than in a TV set) at least here-and-there in homes are
somewhat common much of the time.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

Interesting thread. It seems to me that the slightly greasy
black dust found inside monitors is dust blackened by the normal
outgassing of the plastic components. Leave an any color plastic
(e.g. trash) container next to a room wall corner (where the
circulation is poor) and you will see black wallpaper or paint in
one year. As I recall, old wood cabinet TVs had more "normal"
interior dust. Our real pollution is not from smokers -- simply
vegetation being burnt -- but by all the oil derived crud from
plastic and rubber in the air.

 

[Don Klipstein]

Yeah, stands out like dogs balls when you fly into Sydney
in the right weather conditions. Its got the right conditions
for that sort of smog buildup and that brown haze is
utterly obscene in the right weather conditions.


Nope, it isnt mostly NOx

I see similar brownish but transparent air flowing out of some
thunderstorms when I ride airplanes.

And you get a completely different effect when there is a bushfire
problem, completely different color, pale grey instead, tho you can
get some very spectacular visual effects at sunset in that situation.
That sunset effect is the evidence that its not primarily a NOx effect.

Its the same effect that makes the sky blue.



It hasnt got anything to do with ash at all, its just what makes smoke
grey. And that varys dramatically with the wetness of the wood.


Yes, but you dont get much of that rising to any great extent.

Are you claiming that these fine particles don't go where air goes and
where other smoke particles go?

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Don Klipstein]

Interesting thread. It seems to me that the slightly greasy
black dust found inside monitors is dust blackened by the normal
outgassing of the plastic components. Leave an any color plastic
(e.g. trash) container next to a room wall corner (where the
circulation is poor) and you will see black wallpaper or paint in
one year. As I recall, old wood cabinet TVs had more "normal"
interior dust. Our real pollution is not from smokers -- simply
vegetation being burnt -- but by all the oil derived crud from
plastic and rubber in the air.

In my TV-trashpicking days, I found enough of that black dust in
wooden-cabinet TV sets also.
And stereo receivers and amplifiers, even with plastic in them, usually
had normal dust.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

I see similar brownish but transparent air flowing
out of some thunderstorms when I ride airplanes.

It aint NOx. That never get to anything like a high
enough density in the atmosphere for it to be that.

Are you claiming that these fine particles don't go
where air goes and where other smoke particles go?

Yep, they're considerably bigger and fall rather than rise.
And they dont have the same hot air driving them either.

Have a look at a really badly setup diesel engine thats pouring
out lots of the black stuff some time and see where it goes.

 

[DarkMatter]

Have a look at a really badly setup diesel engine thats pouring
out lots of the black stuff some time and see where it goes.

Diesels pollute less than gasoline fueled engines. Doh!

Not ll of the black particulate "falls" either. Doh!

You don't know "bad" from "rich". Many truckers set up rich for
heavy loads. Another item that I am certain you are clueless about as
indicated by your "the FBT is putting it out" stupidity.

 

[H. Dziardziel]

In my TV-trashpicking days, I found enough of that black dust in
wooden-cabinet TV sets also.

And I serviced them decades ago and can't recall anything like
what is found nowdays in monitors and TVs but admittedly the air
was far cleaner then (at least where I lived) unless oil heat was
used.. But I have seen the effects of outgassing plastic on
for, example, walls.. The internal heat in monitors would
certainly accelerate that And the ozone. .

And stereo receivers and amplifiers, even with plastic in them, usually
had normal dust.

Another nice science project.

 

[Rod Speed]

Diesels pollute less than gasoline fueled engines. Doh!

Depends entirely on the specific pollution you are talking
about. Gasoline engines dont normally produce anything
like the same level of that black stuff being discussed
there as a very badly setup diesel engine.

Reams of your puerile shit flushed where it belongs.

 

[Don Klipstein]

It aint NOx. That never get to anything like a high
enough density in the atmosphere for it to be that.

A layer of air 4 miles thick with 1 PPM NO2 has light going through as
much NO2 as it would going through a 1/4-inch layer of pure NO2, which is
quite brown. I have seen an ampoule of the stuff before. A 1
inch thick layer of pure NO2 (some of it becomes N204 when that
concentrated, a molecule of which is basicaly just two NO2 molecules stuck
together more than being a different compound) is a rather dark brown,
although still lighter than a Budweiser bottle. The stuff looks like
bromine vapor. You can make visible quantities of nitrogen dioxide in a
small glass jar if you put in that jar a spark gap with a capacitor of
about a nanofarad across it and power the spark gap with a neon sign
transformer. You may need to adjust the spark gap or try a larger
capacitor (with power off!) if instead of a loud bright series of sparks
you get an arc. Beware that a neon sign transformer with a capacitor
across its secondary can resonate and the voltage may get high enough to
cause destructive sparking in the transformer unless the spark gap is
short enough to limit the voltage to a value safe for the transformer's
insulation.
Unhealthful air quality based on average concentration of the worst hour
is .3 PPM of NOx, and that is mostly NO2, and that seems like enough to be
visibly brownish in a layer just a few miles thick.

Yep, they're considerably bigger and fall rather than rise.
And they dont have the same hot air driving them either.

Have a look at a really badly setup diesel engine thats pouring
out lots of the black stuff some time and see where it goes.

And how about ones in not-so-bad tune that make finer soot? I see
enough blackish smoke from diesel trucks rising and flowing with air
currents. Sometimes it looks bluish when illuminated by sunlight, so some
of that soot has to be of particles of size around a wavelength or
somewhat smaller, and particles that size don't fall out of the air faster
than the gray stuff from wood fires.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[DarkMatter]

And I serviced them decades ago and can't recall anything like
what is found nowdays in monitors and TVs but admittedly the air
was far cleaner then (at least where I lived) unless oil heat was
used.. But I have seen the effects of outgassing plastic on
for, example, walls.. The internal heat in monitors would
certainly accelerate that And the ozone. .

You seem to have this thing for plastics outgassing.

Sorry to burst your bubble but plastics that are used for monitor
housings do not outgas black particulate.

The "plastics" used for the FBT shell are thermoset plastics and do
not outgas. The potting material for FBTs does not outgas. IC chips
and transistor are NOT packaged in plastic, they are encased in EPOXY,
and the type used only "outgasses" at very high temperatures for
exceeding those of the interior of a monitor shell.

Conclusion: Plastic, and plastic outgassing is NOT the source.

The source is externally attracted airborne particulate... PERIOD.