Don Klipstein said:
And this isnt 'brown clouds', this is right down on the horizon.
And that stuff you see in Sydney is nothing like
'brownish but transparent air', its a nothing like
transparent smog/haze right down on the horizon.
How about 4 miles wide, because I was viewing horizontally.
You dont get that either, and the PPM levels of NOx with
thunderstorms aint anything like that 1 PPM level anyway.
Just try Google on "nitrogen dioxide" "nitrogen tetroxide" equilibrium
Just as hopeless as your previous silly stuff pulled using google.
You wont find a single reputable scientific source saying
anything like that completely silly 'just two NO2 molecules
stuck together more than being a different compound)'
Cloud cuckooland 'chemistry'
They coexist in a ratio that varies with pressure,
Doesnt say a damned thing about that terminally silly
stuff being discussed, 'just two NO2 molecules stuck
together more than being a different compound)'
and nitrogen tetroxide is referred to as a dimer of nitrogen dioxide.
Utterly mangled all over again.
One of the hits that says dimer:
Try a real science site.
But it does say that nitrogen dioxide is also
present and gives that color to the cloud!
Bullshit it does. That para above clearly says 'Extremely
small particles are the principal cause of the brown cloud'
Look up the word 'principal' some time.
And also mentions PM2.5 carbon!
Fine carbon particles do exist in the air!
No one ever said they didnt. What was clearly being
discussed was whether the HEAPS OF JET BLACK
SOOT SEEN WITH VERY BADLY SETUP DIESEL
ENGINES is at all common in the air even in a builtup area.
I have been through and over brown clouds in airplanes.
Pity I wasnt even discussing 'brown clouds' at all.
It is not unusual for them to be only a few thousand feet thick.
Got SFA to do with whether '"Brown Cloud" air
pollution is nitrogen dioxide or nitrogen dioxide'
Its much more complicated than that and
its primarily particles, not NOx at all.
Says nitrogen dioxide absorbs visible light and causes the brown cloud
Pity its just plain wrong and doesnt even cite a shred of
evidence for that particular claim. There are plenty of other
references, with MUCH better credentials, that say nothing
like that, including
http://www.phoenixvis.net/causes.html
Same one again.
Although focusing on other nitrogen oxides, says that NO2 causes "brown cloud"
See above.
Says nitrogen dioxide gives the "Phoenix brown cloud" its color
Pity about what
http://www.phoenixvis.net/causes.html says
and even you must be able to grasp that its the SAME SITE.
Mentions nitrogen dioxide giving the brown color,
along with sulfates caused by sulfur dioxide emissions
causing haze and reduction of visibility.
Pity the other bit of the SAME SITE says something
completely different.
http://www.phoenixvis.net/causes.html
Says that nitrogen dioxide absorbs visible
wavelengths and creates the "Brown Cloud"
They're obviously all just repeating the same drivel without
a shred of substantiation cited to substantiate that claim.
Pity about
http://www.phoenixvis.net/causes.html
which does spell out the detail much
more and is in fact scientifically correct.
Nope, fraid not.
Getting completely silly now.
Tell me why and how you think fine soot
does not rise the way other fine dust does,
Basically it aint got anything like the same volume
of hot air driving it as a fire, and the soot particles
are much larger and heavier, thats why they look
so bad. You dont get anything like that with a fire.
especially given web pages giving a cause of
"brown cloud"'s color other than or in addition
to nitrogen dioxide usually being carbon particles!
Even you must have noticed that brown aint jet black.
Most data findable from Googling "nitrogen dioxide" "brown cloud"
that supports any specific alternative to nitrogen dioxide as causing
the visible "brown cloud" claim that carbon particles are a/the culprit!
DOESNT SAY THAT ITS THE JET BLACK SOOT
FROM BADLY SETUP DIESEL ENGINES THATS
THE SOURCE OF THOSE CARBON PARTICLES.
Where do you propose such carbon particles come from?
Most combustion of carbon based fuel.
Nope. They're only a tiny part of the
total combustion of carbon based fuels.
Which dont happen to produce much of the JET
BLACK SOOT seen in monitors adjacent to the FBT.
And even you should be able to grasp that its just a tad
unlikely that many buildings in pacific islands are actually
heated with oil heaters, so you STILL HAVENT EXPLAINED
HOW MONITORS THERE HAVE THE SAME JET BLACK
SOOT SEEN IN THEIR MONITORS.
More basic logic.
Bad diesels make large amounts of coarser
soot particles, not-so-bad ones make less
and finer soot but they still make fine soot
Nope, they dont produce unburnt carbon.
They just produce the usual products of combustion,
which doesnt include carbon particles with a properly
setup combustion system, because thats inefficient
and stuffs the fuel economy.
and plenty of them are doing that!
as Ken pointed out, you STILL get that inside
monitors, even when there are bugger all diesel
trucks in use at all, let alone many setup that
badly. So it cant be coming from diesel trucks.
Basic logic.
Tell me where they have monitors in air not
affected by diesel trucks, buildings with oil heat, etc.!
Pacific islands, as Ken pointed out.
I have been saying not-so-out-of-tune diesel engines produce finer soot,
You're wrong.
as opposed to bad ones producing soot coarse enough to visibly fall out!
Or do you propose another source of carbom PM2.5 particles,
There's plenty more combustion of carbon
based fuels than just diesel trucks.
which is a primary alternative candidate
to nitrogen dioxide for the "brown cloud"?
Thats just plain wrong too.
You cant explain why you STILL get that jet black soot
in monitors even when there aint no diesel trucks in use
at all, SO IT CANT BE COMING FROM THEM.
Basic logic.
But I did stuff up the gas-to-air mixture, for the purpose
of producing soot particles fine enough to scatter blue
light more than longer wavelengths of visible light.
All completely and utterly irrelevant to what happens much with
normal propane combustion, SO THAT CANT BE THE SOURCE
OF THE JET BLACK SOOT SEEN IN MONITORS EITHER.
And the soot was not always that fine but sometimes
it was, depending on how big the flame was and how
completely I blocked the air intakes.
All completely and utterly irrelevant to what happens much with
normal propane combustion, SO THAT CANT BE THE SOURCE
OF THE JET BLACK SOOT SEEN IN MONITORS EITHER.
I did not claim that this was the case. My only claim related to abused
propane torches was that soot can be fine enough to preferentially scatter
blue light, not that propane torches, abused or otherwise, were normally
significant sources of what builds up in monitors and TV sets!
So it was completely irrelevant waffle, just like the 'brown clouds' are in spades.
