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E

Eeyore

John said:
How so?

My point was that even if exogenesis did explain the origin of life
here, we still have no answer for "How was life created?" downstream.

I agree. It should be self-obvious. Hence my comment above.

My guess would be that an entity on the other side of my bubble universe
wall caused a perturbation to occur which brought our universe into
being and then, some time later, seeded it with life.

You mean the goldfish bowls on the coffee table somehow intereacted ?

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

John said:
Ireland was a vassal state of England until 1921. The Irish formed
their own parliament, the Dáil Éireann, in, I think, 1918. We had a
rebellion, remember?

WE ?

Home Rule (i.e a form of Independence) for Ireland had been planned for ages. WW1 came
as an inconvenient distraction and delay.

As for 'vassal state' no such term exists in modern time

Ireland was simply another member of the Union.

" In 1800, the British and subsequently the Irish Parliament passed the Act of Union
which, in 1801, merged the Kingdom of Ireland and the Kingdom of Great Britain to
create the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland

Cut the crap !

Graham
 
V

Vladimir Vassilevsky

John Larkin wrote:

Religious people accomplish more real-world work
than unbelievers. That's why we had Muslim and British empires, and
why the USA is now the only superpower, and Russia isn't. Religion has
always been a powerful organizing force.

Returning to the matter of the grand sister Sarrra: The religious
obsession was also among the reasons of failure of Hindu, Chinese,
Turkish, Spanish, Aztec civilizations.


VLV
 
V

Vladimir Vassilevsky

John said:
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:56:52 +0000, Eeyore

If it means spreading democracy and health and security around the
world, yes, absolutely. There is no "American Empire" in the sense
that the US makes the rules for anyone else, as there were Roman,
Muslim, British, French, Nazi, Japanese, Communist empires.


The communists *HAD* to spread the communist paradize worldwide so there
will be nowhere to run for the innovative and creative people.

The USSA *HAS* to spread the democratic paradise because this is an
efficient way to take and keep the economic advantage over the rest of
the world. The traditional colonialism proved to be very inefficient,
so they invented the new ingenious form of exploitation.

Europe, Canada, eastern Europe, Japan, Korea are part of the "empire
of democracy" but none of those countries genuflect to the USA. That's
as it should be.

Well, there are also some apparent failures, such as Vietnam, Somalia,
Iraq, etc.

The USA invented modern democracy, defended it in world wars, and is
the oldest surviving democracy on earth.

But the weenie rightist says that USA is republic, not a democracy.
Spreading democracy will
*diminish* the clout of the USA in the world, but spreading democracy
is what we should do. The europeans should do more; heaven knows their
old empires did a lot of damage.


Of couse we should; otherwise somebody else will spread something else
on us.

VLV
 
R

Richard The Dreaded Libertarian

Who want to teach Creationism in school and believe in the ultimate
battle of Good vs Evil ?

I'd say she's a raving crackpot.

She also apparently wants to deny women's right to ownership of their
own bodies - evidently in her universe, women aren't human, but are
beasts of burden to be used to make new little minions for the pope, or
something.

Vote None of the Above:
http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
 
K

Kevin Aylward

John said:
If it means spreading democracy

Complete nonsense. The US has systematically overthrown, legitimate
democracies all around the world.

Have you never heard of Noam Chomsky?
and health

Like, the 45 million kids in the US with no health cover.
and security around the
world, yes, absolutely. There is no "American Empire" in the sense
that the US makes the rules for anyone else, as there were Roman,
Muslim, British, French, Nazi, Japanese, Communist empires.

Europe, Canada, eastern Europe, Japan, Korea are part of the "empire
of democracy" but none of those countries genuflect to the USA. That's
as it should be.

The USA invented modern democracy, defended it in world wars, and is
the oldest surviving democracy on earth. Spreading democracy will
*diminish* the clout of the USA in the world, but spreading democracy
is what we should do. The europeans should do more; heaven knows their
old empires did a lot of damage.

Completely delusional.

You need learn a bit about your own country mate.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

e.g.some snippets...

1953

Iran - CIA overthrows the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh in a
military coup,

1954

Guatemala - CIA overthrows the democratically elected Jacob Arbenz in a
military coup.

1957-1973

Laos - The CIA carries out approximately one coup per year trying to nullify
Laos' democratic elections.

1959

Haiti - The U.S. military helps "Papa Doc" Duvalier become dictator of
Haiti.

etc..etc...


Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
 
K

Kevin Aylward

John said:
DNA based life is "irreducibly complex" so probably could not have
evolved here from inorganics.

Complete Bullshit. Same old drivel put forward by all creationists. You need
to go and read a book that trivially explains the fallacy of your so called
"irreducibly complex". For example, "the blind watch maker" Richard Dawkins.



{snip more nonsense}


Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
 
K

Kevin Aylward

John said:
Creationism can be a valid scientific theory,

I have been trying to my temper my responses. However,

What you state here is complete and utter nonsense. It shows a total lack of
any understanding *whatsoever* of what a "scientific theory" is.
but it flies in the face
of the religion of Darwinism.

Yes, Creationism is in contradiction with Darwinism. Creationism also has
F&*^% all to with scientific theories.

Creationism is already proven false. Period.
I'd guess that there's a good chance that DNA was deliberately
designed and seeded across this universe, for a specific purpose.

You are completely clueless on this John. I am stunned.

If DNA was generated by designer, where did this designer come from? If it
acceptable to believe that there was a designer that was not designed, then
it is surely more easily to accept, that DNA did not need designing in the
first place. Its a simplar explanation. Ochams Razor.


Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
 
K

Kevin Aylward

John said:
Religion is necessarily faith; few have actually seen their God,
especially when not on drugs. The idea that life evolved on earth, for
inorganic precursors, is also blind faith.

Nonsense. Faith is a belief without evidence, the *evidence* that life
evolved on earth is beyond reasonable scientific doubt. where or not there
was any prior evolution, as in stuff arriving from space, is not relevant.

You appear to confuse "faith", "belief without evidence" and "belief
without proof.". Proof is never possible, for anything, in principle,
although disproof may be.
So, where did the universe come from?

No where. Why do you propose the universe had to come from somewhere?
Does consciousness exist,

Of course it exists. If you have any doubt, let me come over tio your place
and let me kick you in the balls. However, its existance, does not imply
that consciousness can do anything.

It irrelevant whether or not consciousness can be "proven". Consciousness is
a new axiom of physics, just like the speed of light axiom.. It can not be
reduced.to anything further.

Oh dear....I just don't have time for correcting all this nonsense. *NO*
reputable physicists take the view that consciousness plays any part in QM.
Period. You are reading the wrong books mate.

http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/qm/index.html

" It makes no difference whatsoever, whether the physicist observes a double
slit experiment or not. If he is outside smoking a cigarette, rather than
watching his equipment dials, it makes not the slightest difference to the
result, and never has such observer created reality ever occurred. The
"observer" is the physical setup of the equipment, not the conscious
observer."

Kevin Aylward

www.kevinaylward.co.uk
 
K

Kevin Aylward

John said:
Of course they all expected it; that's why they named it "junk."
Except that it's not junk. It's far more resistant to mutation than
the "non-junk" DNA that everybody has concentrated on, so it must be
far more important.

So what..

Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
 
K

Kevin Aylward

Eeyore said:
It's certainly been shown in the lab that amino acids, the basic
building blocks of life, can be formed under conditions that were
likely to exist on Earth zillions of years ago.

This is indisputable.

Give it those zillion years and here we are.

Show me the same for Creationism. And of course Christian zealots
therefore insist the earth must be only 5000-7000 years old or so.
How could you be so STUPID as to fall for this utter bunkum ? I
thought you had a brain and a good one at that !

Graham


He needs to read some stuff by Dawkins, maybe have a look at you tube. There
is *nothing* the creationists say that isn't, essentially, twaddle.

Kevin Aylward
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
 
R

Rich the Philosophizer

Well, somebody has to come up with a biochemical explanation of how random
amino acids could self-assemble into DNA-based life, in a "primal soup"
concentration that was essentially distilled water. Beyond fuzzy
hand-waving.

This is a bit pre-biochemical:
http://godchannel.com/bodyclass.html

Hope This Helps!
Rich
 
E

Eeyore

John said:
One of us, apparently, the British or the Irish.

The Irish Free State was not a consequence of WW1 other than had WW1 not
occurred and delayed matters, Home Rule (as it was then called i.e. a
form of independence but maintaining links to Britain) might already
have been given to ALL of Ireland before that time by the British.

Did you not know even before EU rulings on these matters, the citizens
of the Irish Republic maintained their right to vote in British
Elections btw ? They never lost it.

As for India, that's quite another matter overall. If *anyone* can make
that claim it would have been the Japanese and I doubt the Indians would
have liked them very much compared to us. Much as the Malyans didn't.
The post-war Malayan uprising was basically a Communist led revolt than
a widely popular uprising btw.

Your racist based history needs a LOT of serious amendment.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Richard said:
She also apparently wants to deny women's right to ownership of their
own bodies - evidently in her universe, women aren't human, but are
beasts of burden to be used to make new little minions for the pope, or
something.

Or Allah.

Religious fundamentalism makes curious bedfellows.


There's no UK Party that represents my views either.

I think the 'Party System' has failed us all totally. 'Neer nerr' or would
the be 'neener neener' in the USA politics are just destructive.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Rich said:
Yah, you betcha! >;->

Except your and my idea of them is probably VERY different to Sarah palin !

BTW saw on BBC4 last night an excellent 1 hour gig with Jeff Beck at Ronnie
Scott's in London. Guest appearances from Joss Stone and Eric Clapton.

But the really amazing thing for me for me was the 22 yo. Australian female
bass guitarist. Rated most promising bass guitarist of 2008, WOW - she's
playing with GIANTS at such an early age. Keep your eye on her.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tal_Wilkenfeld

If you go to her MySpace there's a couple of nice pics too.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Richard said:

The beginning is bad enouh !

"WASHINGTON — Al-Qaida supporters suggested in a Web site message this week they
would welcome a pre-election terror attack on the U.S. as a way to usher in a McCain
presidency.

The message, posted Monday on the password-protected al-Hesbah Web site, said if
al-Qaida wants to exhaust the United States militarily and economically, "impetuous"
Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain is the better choice because he
is more likely to continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"This requires presence of an impetuous American leader such as McCain, who pledged
to continue the war till the last American soldier," the message said. "Then,
al-Qaida will have to support McCain in the coming elections so that he continues
the failing march of his predecessor, Bush."

SITE Intelligence Group, based in Bethesda, Md., monitors the Web site and
translated the message.

"If al-Qaida carries out a big operation against American interests," the message
said, "this act will be support of McCain because it will push the Americans
deliberately to vote for McCain so that he takes revenge for them against al-Qaida.
Al-Qaida then will succeed in exhausting America till its last year in it."
"

God help us <irony>


Graham
 
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