the 100W bulb lives on....

[Don Klipstein]

Nonsense. I'm talking about normal 750 hour, 100W incandescent bulbs
like you used to put in the lamp; on your bedside table. I'm looking at
a package right now: 1620 lumens.

I was talking about the 23W CFL that Fred Bloggs mentioned, which was a
90W-equiv. PAR30.

If you want an equiv. to 100W A19, depending on which variety of 100W
A19, that's 23 to 26 watts, 18-20 watts for dimmer varieties such as
dollar store ones and some 130V ones operated at 120V.

<SNIP from here to stick to this point>

 

[Don Klipstein]

In your dreams.

And in:

http://ecom.mysylvania.com/sylvaniab2b/b2b/start.do?browsername=mozilla/4.0
%2520%2528compatible%253B%2520msie%25208.0%253B%2520windows%2520nt%25205.1%
253B%2520trident%2F4.0%253B%2520.net%2520clr%25201.1.4322%253B%2520.net%2520
clr%25202.0.50727%253B%2520.net%2520clr%25203.0.4506.2152%253B%2520.net%2520
clr%25203.5.30729%253B%2520.nap%25201.1%2529&browsermajor=4&browserminor=4

Click "Product Information Bulletin"

http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/Documents/CF048_bareCFLi.0deb804f-
fcc7-4c30-8201-6ccabf63d365.pdf

They did not make it easy, but it shows a lumen maintenance curve at
85% @6K hours and about 80% at 12K hours.

Wrong, as above. Apples to apples.

The CFL specs mentioned by Fred Bloggs were for a 90W-equiv. PAR flood.

If you have huge lamps, sure. So what? Lots don't.

My experience is that 23W spirals are getting about as small as an
A19, and 26W ones are hardly longer and no wider.

I already do. They suck fractionally less, but not enough to get
excited about.


I'm shocked, _SHOCKED_ to hear that you leave your front porch light on
when there's nobody there. Mine has a PIR motion detector, which used
to be a good solution, back in the dim distant days when the lights came
on when you flipped the switch.

Since I live in an apartment, I don't have a porch. But most porch
lights, regardless of bulb type, in my experience don't have motion
sensors.

 

[Don Klipstein]

Does your experience include making actual measurements? Otherwise it's
worth bupkis.

Yes it does. I even use a light meter, in addition to doing
Bunsen-like photometry.

Not that I agree with any 15W CFL I ever saw being the equivalent of a
normal 1620 lumen, 750 hour, 100W incandescent - they're marketed as
replacing 60W incandescents.

 

[Don Klipstein]

Will they last longer if being run on DC?

The way I hear it, ones designed to draw low current, maybe around or
under 100 mA, last longer on DC, and ones designed for around or over
half an amp or something like that last longer on AC.

 

[tm]

About three or four times, where I am, for bulbs bought at the same
supermarket.

'Confused' is one way of putting it--I'd suggest "mendacious", "covetous",
and "authoritarian" as being more accurate, in the circs...

Gotta go buy some more Philips 1620 lumen bulbs.

Has anyone ever gotten the 10k hours stated as the life of a CFL?

They seem to fail in about the same amount of time as the incandescent
bulbs. The electrolytic capacitor goes due to the high heat in the base.

The led lamps have the same issue.


Just an observation.


tm

 

[Don Klipstein]

You responded to me, not to Fred, perhaps in error. (I make mistakes
like that sometimes too.)

In any case, comparing CFLs to specially-crappy incandescents doesn't
improve the credibility of your argument. Let's keep it apples-to-apples.

Like I did half a page above, for comparing 23-26W CFL to non-crappy
A19 incandescents?

<SNIP a few lines after this pouint>

 

[Don Klipstein]

Regardless of personal likes or dislikes it's plan silly to 'ban' them.

I was about to post this,

I think it's the one 'political' topic the whole SED can agree on.
Banning them is so stupid.

I hope we can still buy them for use as non-linear resistors in
oscillators.

We could all build BIG Wein bridges with 100W incandesents for power
testing our speakers. You can't really power test speakers with any
'digital stuff' in the signal chain. :^)

Most incandescents are not being banned.

I mention the many exceptions, and a link to the relevant legislation,
at:

http://www.donklipstein.com/incban.html

 

[Don Klipstein]

Not all of them. Some plug in, and others have a bayonet base. Some
projector bulbs use the long obsolete 'Loctal' tube base.

Examples of what is not being screwed by the ban.

 

[Don Klipstein]

Has anyone ever gotten the 10k hours stated as the life of a CFL?

They seem to fail in about the same amount of time as the incandescent
bulbs. The electrolytic capacitor goes due to the high heat in the base.

The led lamps have the same issue.

Just an observation.

I am averaging about 5K hours with CFLs life so far, including ones in
an enclosed flush-mount ceiling fixture, some in a ceiling fan, and some
in a bathroom.

 

[[email protected]]

UL breaks it down by fluorescent and incandescent recessed fixtures-
the better brands have a thermal cutout anyway, so putting an
incandescent in a fluorescent fixture trips it. When in doubt, don't
put an incandescent in a fluorescent recessed fixture, the industry
does not making everything foolproof. Light fixtures aren't the only
devices with IC rating, this also applies to all kinds of receptacles
too.

Man! You're moving those goalposts right along tonight, Bloggsie!

 

[[email protected]]

Fiberglass is now a carcinogen..

Don't snort it.

 

[Don Klipstein]

On 07/15/2011 12:15 AM, Don Klipstein wrote:

Sure, just the useful ones. The left is happy for us to keep our 4W
Christmas bulbs, as long as we don't call them that.

Exceptions include:

* Ones that meet an energy efficiency standard that a few Philips and
some GE halogens already meet (Available at Home Depot and Target)

* At least basically all with design light output outside the 310-2600
lumen range

* All with design voltage outside the 110-130V range

* All with non-screw base

* With some exceptions, all with screw base of size other than E26/E27

* Appliance ones up to 40W, rough/vibration service, shatter-resistant,
most colored ones, globular ones at least 5 inches in diameter,
reflectorized floodlights/spotlights, traffic signal, and some
others.

 

[[email protected]]

It is all part of the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 ,
doesn't sound like consumer protection law to me...they must have some
rationale for it.

I bet you think the "Patient Care and Affordable Care Act" has something to do
with health care, too.

 

[Don Klipstein]

Right, anything except the useful ones.

What's useless about a 70W 1600 lumen halogen that looks and shines
like a medium-base 100W incandescent?

 

[[email protected]]

It costs N times more, Who made you folks so special, that I have to
have your permission to buy what I want with my own money?

But it's *NOT* your money. It's Obama's.

 

[ehsjr]

Yes, you are right, but I see 1 watt LEDs on ebay for around $1 each,
so you could make a 10 watt unit (60 watt equivalent) for maybe $10
plus time to do it.

You're ignoring the cost of the PCB, diodes, Vdrop ckt (resistor?),
Edison base & glass enclosure so you end up with a bulb that goes
in the existing socket, and works.

I'm clueless as to what it would cost to buy a bulb shaped enclosure
into which you could place the 10 LEDs and then glue on an Edison
base, but I'd bet the total cost would be more than double the $10
for the LEDs. In fact, the bulb shape enclosue/Edison base
configuration might prove to be unobtanium in low quantity where your
LED bulb ends up cheap enough to be worthwhile.

And dismissing your time is invalid, if the intent is to compare the
cost of a regular bulb vs a LED bulb. If you were doing the thing
as an experiment/learning experience, then ignoring the cost of your
time is fine. You will spend a LOT of time on this, finding sources
for the Edison base & suitable bulb shaped enclosures, figuring out
how to assemble the ckt board, base & enclosure making the PCB and
putting everything together.

All in all, it's cheaper to buy the existing LED bulb at ~$50 than
to build your own. Of course, then you don't get the "fun" of
developing your own solution.

Ed

 

[Don Klipstein]

It costs N times more,

Not within its life expectancy, including electricity cost at USA
average residential rate, it doesn't.

And that was before GE started bringing down the cost of A19-like
halogens that meet the energy efficiency standard, by not even
needing HIR technology to achieve them.

 

[Martin Brown]

Mine do seem to last out their 10,000 hours. Maybe you have been
buying particularly cheap and nasty examples.

Certain heat trapping lamp shades will seriously shorten their life by
effectively cooking the control electronics and drying out capacitors.

I have even seen some cheap ones that according to the instructions on
the box can only be used one way up with the control electronics under
the tube. The icons on the UK ones packaging require careful decoding...

Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[ehsjr]

You will not be allowed a choice in matters that adversely impact the
environment in which I live.... get a clue.

So, no internal combustion engines?

Ed

 

[Charlie E.]

I was talking about the 23W CFL that Fred Bloggs mentioned, which was a
90W-equiv. PAR30.

If you want an equiv. to 100W A19, depending on which variety of 100W
A19, that's 23 to 26 watts, 18-20 watts for dimmer varieties such as
dollar store ones and some 130V ones operated at 120V.

<SNIP from here to stick to this point>

Back in my old house in Irvine, we had two fancy carriage type lamps
beside the garage door. They were on a photcell to come on and off
during the night. The HOA required you to keed them lit, and would
fine you if one was out too long, They were the only street lighting
away from the corners.

So, we all kept trying to find less expensive, longer lived bulbs, but
CFLs usually didn't do very well. The photocells tended to not be a
smooth on/off, but tended to cycle back and forth a few times. All
those quck switchings usually killed a CFL within a week...

Charlie