Re: UK RICS report says solar takes 208 years to repay...nonsense! Help needed!

[Steve Firth]

It looks like a good law to me. As it originally stood a couple of years
back (as criticised by various comedians for example) it was bad but it
was revised.

I assume you disagree with people as a matter of course without bothering
to check what you're talking about.

No, I disagree with dullards who don't bother to read the laws that they
support.

 

[Steve Firth]

There is no such evidence. Clearly you have a very feeble mind.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_01.html

Violent crime: 469.2/100,000 in 2005

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2yf4p2

Violent crime: 2,420,000 incidents England and Wales
Population: 52,041,916
Violent crime rate: 4650/100,000

Why not try addressing the issue instead of throwing out childish
insults?

 

[Neil Barker]

That is really the ONLY reason IMHO.

In your opinion, perhaps.

And you wouldn't use a colt 45 for target shooting, would you?.

Why not ? Dealing with recoil is part of the target shooting skill
set.

In fact, tell me what you WOULD use a colt 45 for, apart from
threatening people?

Target shooting. I have done - plus all manner of other different
handguns in various calibres.

The Desert Eagle was the most fun, but for elegance and practicality,
I'd take a Sig P226 in 9mm.

And showing it off to your Kan buddies..;=-)

"Kan" ??

 

[Neil Barker]

Strawman argument.

Says the person who continually starts round and round in a circular
argument that just because guns were invented to kill people, that's
all that they can be used for.

 

[Neil Barker]

Both the Hungerford and Dunblane massacres were so committed. Hence the
legislation.

At the time of the Massacre, he was in licensed possession of the following:
Zabala shotgun
Browning shotgun
Beretta 92 semi-automatic 9mm pistol
CZ ORSO semi-automatic .32 pistol
Kalashnikov AK-47 7.62mm semi-automatic rifle
M1 Carbine .30 semi-automatic rifle (a rare "Underwood" model)

Ryan used the Beretta pistol, and the Kalashnikov and M1 rifles, in the
massacre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre


Eight years after the Hungerford massacre, the Dunblane Massacre was the second
time in less than a decade that unarmed civilians had been killed in Britain by
a legally licensed gun owner. On March 13, 1996 Thomas Hamilton, aged 43, a
disgruntled former scout leader who had been ousted by The Scout Association
five years previously, shot dead sixteen young children and their teacher,
Gweneth Mayor, in Dunblane Primary School's gymnasium with his licensed weapons
and ammunition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom#Dunblane_massacre

Case proven.

You may think so. You still haven't answered the question - all you've
done is to provide the two most well-known firearms incidents. The
Dunblane one is a real minefield when it comes to Thomas Hamilton and
the fact that he should have had his guns taken off him *a long time*
before the incident. There are also *many* inconsistencies in the
accounts of what happened - read the book by Sandra Uttley to see why.

 

[Neil Barker]

Neil Barker wrote:

Why do you want to choose 1995 ?

Why ever not ? OK how's about 1994 then ? 1993 ?

The victims of both Hungerford (16 deaths and 15 wounded) and Dunblane (17 deaths and 13 ?
wounded) were killed with ** legally ** held guns.

Correct and no-one is disputing that.

Never again will that happen.

I wouldn't be so sure. Never is a very, very long time.

Gun nuts are going to have to get their kicks some other way.

I personally object to you lumping me in as a 'gun nut' just because I
advocate the position of being able to legally own a handgun and
implies that 'gun nuts' wish to go out and kill people.

I was prepared to conduct a civil discussion with you until then, you
twat.

 

[Neil Barker]

Eeyore wrote:

How do you figure that? it is still legal to hold a wide range of
weapons on a FAC. I would not want to be on the pointy end of a decent
crossbow either, and you don't need a license for that.

He doesn't seem to understand that there are a whole load of other ways
of killing lots of people at once that do not involve either handguns
or semi-automatic rifles.

 

[Morris Dovey]

Erdemal wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:
|| Erdemal wrote:

| Looking at the world from Belgium (me) is somewhat different than
| from Middle West (you), so you have a 'geo-politic' parameter in
| creating an identity ... I'd like to learn sociology .

I envy your vantage point - and I can only applaud that your children
learn so many languages in school. I'm not a native midwesterner, by
the way, I was born in the southeast (Georgia) and did most of my
growing up in eastern Saudi Arabia. I studied mathematics - and I'd
like to tackle cultural anthropology. Instead I'm building solar
devices...

||| Did you choose it ? Or was it 'written' on your mind by some
||| "Moby-Dick' or 'David Copperfield' ?
||
|| I think 'written' by parents, family, teachers, and respected
|| elders when young, then 'edited' and extended with experience and
|| observation.
|
| Yes, I tried to make it short ! You forgot Hollywood but this
| one is for all of us.

There wasn't much of Hollywood or TV in the desert. I didn't miss it
then, and I don't find much in either that's relevant to my life now.
Somewhere along the way I learned to find amusements that don't much
depend on professional entertainers.

| Whatever Eeyore says, USA is/was a success, it rules/ruled the world
| for now 60 years and stole it to the Brits by machiavelic moves
| .

Well, it's a work in progress - we've managed to get some things right
and we've botched others. We have a lot to learn and we know it. Hmm -
an insight for the sociologist: I think Americans would much rather
march at the head of the parade than rule the world - a recognition
that, as a society, we still have some maturing to do...

| Ok, I changed my mind ! How much for 10 acres

That depends on where you'd like to locate. Prices for farmland in
Iowa are currently running around $3000/acre. I'm not sure what 10
acres near a city in Texas might cost.

| N.B. I wonder what this has to do with alt.solar.thermal

I don't know - there seems to be a lot of heat but not much solar. ;-)

 

[Neil Barker]

You got the wrong date for the handgun ban !

No, I did not - did I say that 1995 was the year of the handgun ban ?

I chose 1995 deliberately to pick another year apart from Dunblane.

The very reason for it was Dunblane.

" Thomas Hamilton walked into the school armed with two 9 mm Browning HP pistols and two
Smith and Wesson .357 revolvers. He was carrying 743 cartridges."

" As the law stood at the time, the police were unable to revoke Hamilton's firearms
certificate (gun licence) because there were no substantiated grounds to do so."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre

Understand now ?

I understand more about Dunblane than you will ever know. I also stand
by the many statements that there *were* reasons to revoke his firearms
certificate. As I told you, read the book by a paramedic who was
present at the time, Sandra Uttley to find out more and fill the gaps
that so lack.

 

[Neil Barker]

Rats and squirrels mainly I think.

There's plenty more. Keep going. Plenty more that you would be breaking
the law in killing with a shotgun.

 

[Neil Barker]

Ditto here in Suffolk, uk.


Toatally useless against deer.

Not necessarily. That depends on the handgun. Ever fired a .50 calibre
Desert Eagle ?

You need a .25 or bigger rifle, the right ammmo, and clear shot DOWNWARDS.

To be precise:-

In England:-

For deer of any species a minimum calibre of .240 inches (.236 inches
in Northern Ireland) and a minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds
is the legal requirement. In Northern Ireland the minimum bullet weight
is 100 grains.


In Scotland

For deer of any species the bullet must weigh at least 100 grains AND
have a minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second AND minimum
muzzle energy of 1,750 foot pounds.

or

For roe deer the bullet must weigh at least 50 grains AND have a
minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second AND a minimum muzzle
energy of 1,000 foot pounds.

It must be stressed that all these figures are the minimum legal
requirement.

 

[Neil Barker]

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

He's talking nonsense. They were banned after Hungerford.

"In the aftermath, the Conservative government passed the Firearms (Amendment)
Act 1988. This confined semiautomatic and pump-action centrefire rifles;
military weapons firing explosive ammunition; short shotguns that had magazines;
and both elevated pump-action and self-loading rifles to the Prohibited
category."

Oh boy. Have you just shot yourself in the foot big time. Perhaps next
time you'd just slice your head off and hand it to me on a plate !

Note the word "RIFLE". A shotgun IS NOT A RIFLE.

If it is illegal to own these, how would you like to explain how I have
a pump-action 12 bore, 10-shot shotgun, which is legally held on a
firearms certificate ?

You may now grovel and apologise profusely for your complete ****-up.

Dickhead.

 

[Neil Barker]

They are categorised as 'self-loading'. As far as I can see they are effectively
banned. I can't hink of any reason why they shouldn't be.

ROTFLMAO.

You're really not doing very well at this now, are you ?

You've dug a hole almost all the way to Australia with that ****-up.

 

[Neil Barker]

Is a target pistol incapable of killing ?

Is a cricket bat ?

Is a kitchen knife ?

Is a motorcar ?

Spotted the problem yet ?

 

[Steve Firth]

I understand more about Dunblane than you will ever know. I also stand
by the many statements that there *were* reasons to revoke his firearms
certificate. As I told you, read the book by a paramedic who was
present at the time, Sandra Uttley to find out more and fill the gaps
that so lack.

Rachael Bell's summary is worth reading as well, stripped to the
essentials but it gives a feel for why the police should have paid much
more attention ot Hamilton, their casual disregard of allegations of
sadistic paedophile behaviour and the strangely close relationship
between Hamilton and some police officers.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3y9za8

 

[Arnold Walker]

I'm not sure that the Amish use guns at all. They're certainly pacifists
and
exempt from serving in the Armed Forces.

So they never hunt according to you.......

 

[Steve Firth]

ROTFLMAO.

You're really not doing very well at this now, are you ?

You've dug a hole almost all the way to Australia with that ****-up.

And he's still digging, aparently in ignorance of the meaning of the
word "rifle".

 

[Arnold Walker]

I thought Moby Dick was written by an American anyway.

Some of us don't consider New York part of America........
Heck the guy had to die for 50years before anyone would even read his works.
Now Mellville is considered one the greatest in America literature.
But then Liberals are into education much thses days and claim the guy's
English ,Japanese or anything else and the liberal would never know the
difference....dumbing down of education ,etc.,etc.
Might have to think for themself ,if they were educated.

 

[Eeyore]

Guns yes, but primarily the rifles it seems.

No.

Dunblane was exclusively with HANDGUNS. Hence the handgun ban that followed it..

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_01.html

Violent crime: 469.2/100,000 in 2005

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2yf4p2

Violent crime: 2,420,000 incidents England and Wales
Population: 52,041,916
Violent crime rate: 4650/100,000

Why not try addressing the issue instead of throwing out childish
insults?

Completely different recording methods are in use.

You're comparing the proverbial apples and oranges. No actual physical violence is
required for certain crimes to be recorded as 'violent crime' in the UK.

Graham