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Old-fart electronics quiz

J

John Larkin

I don't remember if there was ever a commercial realization, but I
wouldn't think it would be difficult, it'd just be a percentage of
vertical.

...Jim Thompson


OK, he asks innocently, what the hell is a spot wobbler?

John
 
J

Jim Thompson

OK, he asks innocently, what the hell is a spot wobbler?

John

John, I thought you were an old fart like me ?:)

A spot wobbler added a small amount of high frequency modulation to
the vertical deflection of a CRT to blend adjacent scan lines together
so that the individual scan lines weren't so noticeable. But it
tended to blur the whole picture.

It was in and out of vogue in about a year's time, mid to late '50's.

...Jim Thompson
 
P

Paul Burridge

You have to go to Bull at Henfield (Brighton) or J&N Factors at Bolney
nearby.

Interesting. I can't say I've heard of either. Do they have web sites
where one might get some idea of what stock they carry?
 
J

Jan Panteltje

Jan Panteltje wrote:


snip


To be honest I don't know but I would suspect it would be the 10.7MHz IF
because of the effects of stray capacitance in the 455KHz IF.

Ian
Correct :)
 
P

Precious Pup

N. Thornton said:
I would say it was a good technique, in its day, just not suited to
present day conditions. Understand that a valve cost about 5GBP back
then, and radios generally had 2 or 3 of them.



Funnier than hell.


From Radiotron:

"Disadvantages of the Reflex Receiver

1. Increased cost due to additional components."


Is this the thread where all the old fartknockers get to play pretend?
 
J

John Larkin

John, I thought you were an old fart like me ?:)

A spot wobbler added a small amount of high frequency modulation to
the vertical deflection of a CRT to blend adjacent scan lines together
so that the individual scan lines weren't so noticeable. But it
tended to blur the whole picture.

It was in and out of vogue in about a year's time, mid to late '50's.

...Jim Thompson


Never heard of it! Maybe that's the year I discovered girls.

Why didn't they just use crappy electron optics to fuzz up the spot
diameter?

Funny, we're still using NTSC and my TV doesn't show visible scan
lines at a normal viewing distance. It *doesn't* have a frame buffer
or anything fancy like that.

Tnx for the info.

John
 
A

Allan Herriman

I read in sci.electronics.design that Allan Herriman <allan.herriman.hat
[email protected]> wrote (in <kevo0091dtjc6sbdouh6ljpdjcjqb4r7
[email protected]>) about 'Old-fart electronics quiz', on Tue, 20 Jan 2004:


True, but its more or less a happy accident. 450 kHz for Europe dates
from long before PLL receivers.

Thanks. I didn't know that (as I usually only see stuff from Asian
manufacturers).

Regards,
Allan.
 
J

John Larkin

Funnier than hell.


From Radiotron:

"Disadvantages of the Reflex Receiver

1. Increased cost due to additional components."


Is this the thread where all the old fartknockers get to play pretend?


Hey, small cur, you are both ignorant and obnoxious, not a terribly
appealing combination.

The good thing about researching old techniques is that you never know
when an updated version might be useful in solving a modern problem,
or when some deeply-buried mental analogy mechanism may use old ideas
to synthesize something new. Almost everything I ever learned, or ever
did, even though it may have seemed pointless at the time, adds to my
mental flexibility to invent new stuff.

I don't pretend, I invent. The reflex amp was a cool idea; some day I
may need to need to pass two separate frequency bands through a shared
pipelined multiplier in an FPGA, or consider the nonlinearities of a
multi-wavelength optically-pumped FDA. I'm currently redesigning a
50-year old, "obsolete" distributed amplifier using heterojunction
GaAs fets, to modulate the world's largest laser.

It sounds to me like your young brain is a lot more rigid than mine.

Radiotron is 50 years obsolete, so why do you consider it superior in
philosophy to, say, Morcroft's classic of 1927? Books are sources for
ideas, not authority.


John
 
J

Jerry Avins

Roger said:
Building a strawman to attack is easier than to discuss with the real me.

A few text snippets from the web:
http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/introduction.htm

"Since the early 1920s unsubstantiated reports have circulated to the
effect that not only German industrialists, but also Wall Street
financiers, had some role ¡X possibly a substantial role ¡X in the rise of
Hitler and Naziism. This book presents previously unpublished evidence, a
great deal from files of the Nuremburg Military Tribunals, to support this
hypothesis."

"At the present moment more than a hundred American corporations have
subsidiaries here or cooperative understandings. The DuPonts have three
allies in Germany that are aiding in the armament business. Their chief
ally is the I. G. Farben Company, a part of the Government which gives
200,000 marks a year to one propaganda organization operating on American
opinion. Standard Oil Company (New York sub-company) sent $2,000,000 here
in December 1933 and has made $500,000 a year helping Germans make Ersatz
gas for war purposes"

"he contribution made by American capitalism to German war preparations
before 1940 can only be described as phenomenal. It was certainly crucial
to German military capabilities. For instance, in 1934 Germany produced
domestically only 300,000 tons of natural petroleum products and less than
800,000 tons of synthetic gasoline; the balance was imported. Yet, ten
years later in World War II, after transfer of the Standard Oil of New
Jersey hydrogenation patents and technology to I. G. Farben (used to
produce synthetic gasoline from coal), Germany produced about 6 1/2 million
tons of oil ¡X of which 85 percent (5 1/2 million tons) was synthetic oil
using the Standard Oil hydrogenation process. Moreover, the control of
synthetic oil output in Germany was held by the I. G. Farben subsidiary,
Braunkohle-Benzin A. G., and this Farben cartel itself was created in 1926
with Wall Street financial assistance."

So what else is new? We armed Osama bin Laden, sold arms and
poison-gas manufacturing equipment to Iraq under Saddam Husein,
and generally trade mayhem machines for money all over the world.
That's the American Way: get used to it. Lenin was half right
when he said, "When it comes time to hang the last capitalist, he
will sell us the rope". He was exactly right about capitalism and
how capitalists operate. He was dead wrong about it being weak. I
deplore Henry Ford's support of and admiration for Hitler. What I
glory in is living in a country where neither Ford's view nor its
exact opposite may not be openly expressed or privately acted on.
It's too bad that common sense or public opinion didn't deflect
Ford's and the Rockerfellers' blind support for a monster. It's a
damn good thing that our government can't.

Jerry
 
J

John Larkin

So what else is new? We armed Osama bin Laden, sold arms and
poison-gas manufacturing equipment to Iraq under Saddam Husein,
and generally trade mayhem machines for money all over the world.
That's the American Way: get used to it. Lenin was half right
when he said, "When it comes time to hang the last capitalist, he
will sell us the rope". He was exactly right about capitalism and
how capitalists operate. He was dead wrong about it being weak. I
deplore Henry Ford's support of and admiration for Hitler. What I
glory in is living in a country where neither Ford's view nor its
exact opposite may not be openly expressed or privately acted on.
It's too bad that common sense or public opinion didn't deflect
Ford's and the Rockerfellers' blind support for a monster. It's a
damn good thing that our government can't.

Jerry

It wasn't obvious in 1933 that Hitler was a monster. Once it became
obvious, Ford Motor Company made a big chunk of the planes, trucks,
and tanks that saved England and liberated Europe from the Nazis.

"Capitalism" is just another way to say "pluralist economy." National
Socialism was not capitalism, as it turned out.

Live and learn.

John
 
R

Roger Johansson

It wasn't obvious in 1933 that Hitler was a monster.

It was very obvious that he was out to kill all socialists and jews he
could find, and that he hated Russia and communism.

" In 1924 the Allies appointed a committee of bankers (headed by American
banker Charles G. Dawes) to develop a program of reparations payments. The
resulting Dawes Plan was, according to Georgetown University Professor of
International Relations Carroll Quigley, "largely a J.P. Morgan
production."5 The Dawes Plan arranged a series of foreign loans totaling
$800 million with their proceeds flowing to Germany. These loans are
important for our story because the proceeds, raised for the greater part
in the United States from dollar investors, were utilized in the mid-1920s
to create and consolidate the gigantic chemical and steel combinations of
I. G. Farben and Vereinigte Stahlwerke, respectively. These cartels not
only helped Hitler to power in 1933; they also produced the bulk of key
German war materials used in World War II"
National Socialism was not capitalism, as it turned out.

It was the capitalists spearhead against socialism, democracy and a decent
new world order.

The idea of the corporate culture, big corporations steering governments,
started in this era, as the most important fascist-capitalist idea of a
future where finance could control governments.

"This interplay of ideas and cooperation between Hjalmar Sehacht in Germany
and, through Owen Young, the J.P. Morgan interests in New York, was only
one facet of a vast and ambitious system of cooperation and international
alliance for world control. As described by Carroll Quigley, this system
was "... nothing less than to create a world system of financial control,
in private hands, able to dominate the political system of each country and
the economy of the world as a whole.12

This feudal system worked in the 1920s, as it works today, through the
medium of the private central bankers in each country who control the
national money supply of individual economies. In the 1920s and 1930s, the
New York Federal Reserve System, the Bank of England, the Reichs-bank in
Germany, and the Banque de France also more or less influenced the
political apparatus of their respective countries indirectly through
control of the money supply and creation of the monetary environment. More
direct influence was realized by supplying political funds to, or
withdrawing support from, politicians and political parties."
 
N

N. Thornton

Funnier than hell.


From Radiotron:

"Disadvantages of the Reflex Receiver

1. Increased cost due to additional components."


Is this the thread where all the old fartknockers get to play pretend?


the mark of a true fool :) Hehe.

Regards, NT
 
R

Rick Lyons

Building a strawman to attack is easier than to discuss with the real me.

Roger, please don't be a jerk and call me a liar.
There's no reason to do so.
I'd never call you a liar.

When someone curses you, you say
"See, look at the foul-mouthed American."

You're just as bad as them.

Ya know what's *really* peculiar though?
Your post mentioned the I. G. Farben
Company. I met the deranged American,
of which I spoke, in the I. G. Farben
Hochhaus, Frankfurt Germany, in 1978.
I worked in that building for two years.

Forget about the Duponts, the real
American villains were the top managers
of the American IBM Company. They had a
solid, profitable, relationship with Hitler in
building machine that were efficient in collecting,
compiling, and analyzing data. The data was
about people, who they were, where they lived,
and who their relatives. The Nazis used the data
to track Jews.

Be that as it may, you owe your freedom of speech
to America. The Soviets alone may not have been able
to defeat the Nazis without America. But the Americans
alone would have won World War II without the Soviets.
Thus saving ungrateful you from tyranny.
Remember the lampshades!

Every morning you should say, "God Bless America!"

[-Rick-]
 
E

EU

Jerry Avins said:
So what else is new? We armed Osama bin Laden, sold arms and
poison-gas manufacturing equipment to Iraq under Saddam Husein,
and generally trade mayhem machines for money all over the world.
That's the American Way: get used to it. Lenin was half right
when he said, "When it comes time to hang the last capitalist, he
will sell us the rope". He was exactly right about capitalism and
how capitalists operate. He was dead wrong about it being weak. I
deplore Henry Ford's support of and admiration for Hitler. What I
glory in is living in a country where neither Ford's view nor its
exact opposite may not be openly expressed or privately acted on.
It's too bad that common sense or public opinion didn't deflect
Ford's and the Rockerfellers' blind support for a monster. It's a
damn good thing that our government can't.

Jerry

Hi Jerry.

Just to contradict you. US has officially supported some of the
military dictatorships in South America. It was believed to be so for
a long time, but recent opening of US documents during Clinton
government, as well as some document of the dictatorships in South
America that were released recently gave proof to that. In the
specific case of Brazil, the army has taken power by force in response
to the election of a socialist president. In case of resistence, US
army had backup to support this in Brazilian waters.

IMHO US isn´t the good guy, but the big one that beats the
smaller that are not behaving as he wants.

Me
 
J

Jim Thompson

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:48:18 -0800, John Larkin

[snip]
Radiotron is 50 years obsolete, so why do you consider it superior in
philosophy to, say, Morcroft's classic of 1927? Books are sources for
ideas, not authority.


John

We have *MANY* lurkers here who think "in-print" means "authority", if
you get my gist ;-)

...Jim Thompson
 
J

Jerry Avins

Ross said:
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 15:43:38 GMT, [email protected] said...



ok, big boys race our young girls but violet generally wins... go
shower now.


And for those who remember Teletypes there was
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog['s back].....

Lemme see now: TQBFJOLDB .... Oh! I get it. Neat!

Jerry

P.S. No soap; radio.
 
J

Jerry Avins

John Larkin wrote:

...
It wasn't obvious in 1933 that Hitler was a monster. Once it became
obvious, Ford Motor Company made a big chunk of the planes, trucks,
and tanks that saved England and liberated Europe from the Nazis.

"Capitalism" is just another way to say "pluralist economy." National
Socialism was not capitalism, as it turned out.

Live and learn.

John

It was obvious that he was a dictator who didn't allow his people the
freedoms that rich industrialists thought they could buy for themselves
anywhere. (They were wrong about that too.) I suspect that Hitler's
anti-Semitism was part of his attraction to many. That changed for a
while, but it seems to be resurgent.

Jerry
______________________________
"Europe needs a strongman. That's more important than civil liberties"
"The end justifies the means" Do those quotes resonate in the present?
--
"The rights of the best of men are secured only as the
rights of the vilest and most abhorrent are protected."
- Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes, 1927

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for
good men to do nothing." - attributed to Edmund Burke 1770?

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1759
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
 
J

Jim Thompson

John Larkin wrote:

...
It wasn't obvious in 1933 that Hitler was a monster.
[snip]

It was obvious that he was a dictator who didn't allow his people the
freedoms that rich industrialists thought they could buy for themselves
anywhere. (They were wrong about that too.) I suspect that Hitler's
anti-Semitism was part of his attraction to many. That changed for a
while, but it seems to be resurgent.

Jerry

That resurgence is going to end up being Europe's downfall.

...Jim Thompson
 
F

Fred Bloggs

N. Thornton said:
I would say it was a good technique, in its day, just not suited to
present day conditions. Understand that a valve cost about 5GBP back
then, and radios generally had 2 or 3 of them. 15GBP then is very very
roughly equivalent to about 1500 GBP now, or over 2000USD, just for
the valves. Now do you think using the valve's amplification twice was
a good idea or a bad one? Bear in mind the price of the valves, the
fact that your radio only had 2 or 3 of them, and the fact that they
didnt have the high gain the much later valves had. It was clearly a
good idea.

Conditions in electronics are now very different.


Regards, NT

Hmmm- not so actually- can you think of a way to use the reflex to make
a single transistor FSM with 60dB dynamic range? I can:) But a certain
objectionable character needs to leave before I will *ever* post a
schematic:)
 
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