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Old-fart electronics quiz

W

Winfield Hill

Paul Burridge wrote...
I can't seem to see your entry for this quiz anywhere on this thread,
Jim. Did you:

a) Not know some of the answers and were afraid of embarrasing
yourself

b) Think it was beneath your dignity to respond to such prosaic
questions

c) Feel outraged that someone else had set a test when you regarded
yourself as the Group Quizmaster

I think we should be told. ;-)

Perhaps you should be told off. ;>)

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com
 
J

Jerry Avins

Richard said:
Allan said:
On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Jan 2004 13:06:58 -0800) it happened "Max
Hauser"


[snip]

6. What is a class-C amplifier and where is it typically used?


Amp biased so it is conducting less the 180 degrees, use RF amp.



Specifically, an RF amp best used for constant envelope modulation,
e.g. CW, FM.

HUH???
Seems to me the typical AM transmitter of the 60's was a plate modulated
class C amp ;}
[ Now if you wanted to AMPLIFY an AM signal, then you went Class A or AB
( can't remember spec of Class B -- must be getting old ;) ]

It's not so much a contradiction as might first seem. Plate modulation
varies the power by varying the output tube's plate voltage to modulate
the carrier. Linear modulation over the widest range dictates that the
grid bias set up class C conditions.

Jerry
 
J

Jerry Avins

glen said:
Jerry Avins wrote:




I thought Baudot was a five bit code. If you are going to
use two digits anyway, why hex?

(Well, I like hex better than octal, but two digits of base
six code would have been enough.)

-- glen

We thought about Flexowriter (BCD) code, but the coming Teletype code
attracted us, and we got into hexadecimal thinking about it. Octal ruled
the roost in those days, so hex was more mysterious and (we thought)
less likely to be deciphered. Of course, 16 colors would have given it
away to anyone who cared, but we hadn't thought it through that far. We
could have done BCD with ten colors, but what was the fun in that?

Jerry
 
J

Jim Thompson

I can't seem to see your entry for this quiz anywhere on this thread,
Jim. Did you:

a) Not know some of the answers and were afraid of embarrasing
yourself

b) Think it was beneath your dignity to respond to such prosaic
questions

c) Feel outraged that someone else had set a test when you regarded
yourself as the Group Quizmaster

I think we should be told. ;-)

(1) I am as old as dirt, thus I knew *most*, but not all of the
answers... my toooob experience is limited to what I picked up in my
Dad's TV repair shop... I have no industrial/design experience with
toooobz, and never really cared to learn.

(2) It's more amusing to see other people's answers.

(3) You are our resident village idiot, why don't you just go away,
you're becoming quite annoying.

...Jim Thompson
 
R

Roger Johansson

Just after WWII, the USA offered a total nuclear weapons ban. The
Soviets refused. The USA offered "open sky" flyover to reduce
tensions. Ditto.

I doubt very much that that is an accurate way to describe the situation.
I can imagine USA suggesting a total ban on development of nuclear weapons
for other nations, so they would remain the only nuclear power.

The same with "open sky" flyovers, it would probably have greatly served
USA to stay in a much better position, as they were after the war, when
Russia and Germany had exhausted all their resources and USA was unharmed
and had a strong weapons industry built up.

Remember that the capitalist side had just tried to destroy Russia
completely and had killed 20 million russian soldiers.
What reasons would Russia have after the war to suddenly start to trust the
capitalist side and allow some "open air" policy which would surely serve
the capitalist side ambitions to keep on attacking Russia?
The USA let western Europe govern itself, even elect
Communists; compare that to the fate of Poland, Rumania...

It is easy let people "govern themselves" when you have full control over
the world media channels, and news agencies, and could control the economy
of Europe through the Marshall help plan.

http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/chapter_06.htm

" Henry Ford was also the most famous of Hitler's foreign backers, and he
was rewarded in the 1930s for this long-lasting support with the highest
Nazi decoration for foreigners."

"Henry Ford's protestations of innocence suggest, as we shall see in this
chapter, that he did not approve of Jewish financiers profiting from war
(as some have), but if anti-Semitic Morgan3 and Ford profited from war that
was acceptable, moral and "constructive.""

"On December 20, 1922 the New York Times reported4 that automobile
manufacturer Henry Ford was financing Adolph Hitler's nationalist and
anti-Semitic movements in Munich."

"We shall see later that Hitler's backing in the late 20s and early 30s
came from the chemical, steel, and electrical industry cartels, rather than
directly from individual industrialists. In 1928 Henry Ford merged his
German assets with those of the I.G. Farben chemical cartel. A substantial
holding, 40 percent of Ford Motor A.G. of Germany, was transferred to I.G.
Farben; Carl Bosch of I.G. Farben became head of Ford A.G. Motor in
Germany. Simultaneously, in the United States Edsel Ford joined the board
of American I.G. Farben."

"General Electric and the Financing of Hitler

The tap root of modern corporate socialism runs deep into the management of
two affiliated multi-national corporations: General Electric Company in the
United States and its foreign associates, including German General Electric
(A.E.G.), and Osram in Germany. We have noted that Gerard Swope, second
president and chairman of General Electric, and Walter Rathanau of A.E.G.
promoted radical ideas for control of the State by private business
interests."

"n brief, we have hard evidence of unquestioned authenticity (see p, 56) to
show that German General Electric contributed substantial sums to Hitler's
political fund. There were four American directors of A.E.G. (Baldwin,
Swope, Minor, and Clark), which was 80 percent owned by International
General Electric. Further, I.G.E. and the four American directors were the
largest single interest and consequently had the greatest single influence
in A.E.G. actions and policies. Even further, almost all other directors of
A.E.G. were connected with firms (I. G. Farben, Accumulatoren Fabrik, etc.)
which contributed directly — as firms — to Hitler's political fund.
However, only the German directors of A.E.G were placed on trial in
Nuremburg in 1945."

"In two gears Germany will be manufacturing oil and gas enough out of soft
coal for a long war. The Standard Oil of New York is furnishing millions of
dollars to help. (Report from the Commercial Attaché, U.S. Embassy in
Berlin, Germany, January 1933, to State Department in Washington, D.C,)

The Standard Oil group of companies, in which the Rockefeller family owned
a one-quarter (and controlling) interest,1 was of critical assistance in
helping Nazi Germany prepare for World War II"

And it goes on and on like that, showing that the american capitalists did
a lot to start a war in Europe, which would, of course be very useful in
crushing communism and socialism, and let USA become the remaining super
power of the world after Europe and Russia had exhausted all their
resources and had been bombed to pieces.
 
R

Roger Johansson

Roger reminds me of an American I met
years ago. This deranged American actually
thought that the Iron Curtain was meant to
keep people *out* of the Soviet Union.

Building a strawman to attack is easier than to discuss with the real me.

A few text snippets from the web:
http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/introduction.htm

"Since the early 1920s unsubstantiated reports have circulated to the
effect that not only German industrialists, but also Wall Street
financiers, had some role ¡X possibly a substantial role ¡X in the rise of
Hitler and Naziism. This book presents previously unpublished evidence, a
great deal from files of the Nuremburg Military Tribunals, to support this
hypothesis."

"At the present moment more than a hundred American corporations have
subsidiaries here or cooperative understandings. The DuPonts have three
allies in Germany that are aiding in the armament business. Their chief
ally is the I. G. Farben Company, a part of the Government which gives
200,000 marks a year to one propaganda organization operating on American
opinion. Standard Oil Company (New York sub-company) sent $2,000,000 here
in December 1933 and has made $500,000 a year helping Germans make Ersatz
gas for war purposes"

"he contribution made by American capitalism to German war preparations
before 1940 can only be described as phenomenal. It was certainly crucial
to German military capabilities. For instance, in 1934 Germany produced
domestically only 300,000 tons of natural petroleum products and less than
800,000 tons of synthetic gasoline; the balance was imported. Yet, ten
years later in World War II, after transfer of the Standard Oil of New
Jersey hydrogenation patents and technology to I. G. Farben (used to
produce synthetic gasoline from coal), Germany produced about 6 1/2 million
tons of oil ¡X of which 85 percent (5 1/2 million tons) was synthetic oil
using the Standard Oil hydrogenation process. Moreover, the control of
synthetic oil output in Germany was held by the I. G. Farben subsidiary,
Braunkohle-Benzin A. G., and this Farben cartel itself was created in 1926
with Wall Street financial assistance."
 
J

John Woodgate

I read in sci.electronics.design that Roger Johansson <[email protected]>
wrote (in said:
And it goes on and on like that, showing that the american capitalists did
a lot to start a war in Europe, which would, of course be very useful in
crushing communism and socialism, and let USA become the remaining super
power of the world after Europe and Russia had exhausted all their
resources and had been bombed to pieces.
Does it include data on US investment in Britain, France, Netherlands,
Belgium, Scandinavia?
 
I

Ian Bell

Fred said:
That is because you have gender dysphoria and you read this is a
personally bright future in store.

Either you made a typo or two or I am dyslexic too.

Ian
 
I

Ian Bell

John said:
The secretary of any ARS is an institutionalised authority figure of
high rank. Only a 3rd or higher-order god outranks. (;-)

I think you must be right. He was the only person I have met then or since
who had a 10ft high pile of dead TV chassis in his back garden. He let me
help myself. Was that some sort of mystical initiation? it certianly felt
like. I was clearly *not* in the inner circle as they never invited me to
the pub after club meetings.

Ian
 
I

Ian Bell

Ben said:
You can get colored ribbon cable that has the wires colored
consecutively in the resistor color code (first wire is black, next is
brown, next is red,... and repeats with black again every 10 wires)
for easily locating the Nth wire in the cable, and many audio "snakes"
(cable bundling many audio signal cables) have cables colored in order
(channel 1 black, 2 brown, 3 red, etc) so if you know the color code
you can plug the cables into the mixer in the correct order easily and
quickly.
Does anyone have any other non-component-value examples of the
color code being used?

Yup. You can get multi track audio cable looms where the jacks/phonos are
colour coded in the standard way, althought they tend to miss out brown.

Ian
 
I

Ian Bell

James said:
Scrape the black paint from the outside of its tiny glass test-tube
looking package.

Jim

Do you remember how the later ones were filled with an opague liquid so you
could no longer do that?

Ian
 
I

Ian Bell

Paul said:
Is that the device where the three leads exit the base in a straight
line with the centre one slightly off-set towards one of the outer
leads and a paint-spot on the edge near the bottom of the
encapsulation for assisting in pin identification? Mullard, wasn't it?

Yup.

Ian
 
I

Ian Bell

Paul said:
Oh, don't start me off on the great days of Tottenham Court Road! It's
too sad to think about how all those wonderful outlets have just
turned into 'latest must-have electronic gadget' shops. Not a single
discrete component to be found anywhere. Mail order and Maplin are the
only alternatives now. :-(

Henry's Radio!!! An total paradise.

Ian
 
I

Ian Bell

Jan Panteltje wrote:


snip
I will think about some things myself.....
But you guys know everything ....
This I was actually asked at some exam (sixties):
When you have an IF amp with a 10.7MHz and a 455 KHz (or 450 hehe JW)
tuned ciruit in series, would you design the 10.7 or the 455 (450)
connected to the collector of the driving transistor, and why.

To be honest I don't know but I would suspect it would be the 10.7MHz IF
because of the effects of stray capacitance in the 455KHz IF.

Ian
 
R

Ross Mac

Active8 said:
ok, big boys race our young girls but violet generally wins... go
shower now.

And for those who remember Teletypes there was
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.....
 
I

Ian Bell

John said:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson


We definitely had them in Europe, but I never owned one, being content
to keep one TV for 28 years. I'm not aware that there was a need for
frequent readjustment, and I used to service TVs for food in those days.

I seem to remememer an article in Practical Wireless in the 60s for a Spot
Wobulator.

Ian
 
J

John Woodgate

Oh, don't start me off on the great days of Tottenham Court Road! It's

You have to go to Bull at Henfield (Brighton) or J&N Factors at Bolney
nearby. Plus some others who advertise in the back pages of Everyday
Practical Electronics (strictly for dedicated PIC-fiends). Stewart or
Reading used to have a junk pile but I haven't been there in years; I am
well stocked up with junk^H^H^H^H interesting and valuable legacy
equipment.
 
J

John Woodgate

(in said:
I was clearly *not* in the inner circle as they never invited me to
the pub after club meetings.

Because you were 12 years old?
 
J

Jan Panteltje

John Woodgate said:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Jan Panteltje
01.evisp.enertel.nl>) about 'Old-fart electronics quiz', on Sun, 18 Jan
2004:


That's a question of a very different nature from the LED one. It's
about electronics, for a start!

It's also not so easy to answer, unless you know details of the typical
design of such stages. Most graduates would not know, and no discredit
for that.

What were your answers (both of them!)?

My answer was you put the 10.7MHz on the collector, the reason is the parasitic
capacitance is less that way.
It was the correct answer, I passed tha texam BTW.
Parasitic capacitance is more important for the small cap in the 10.7 MHz,
then for the rather large one in the 450 kHZ (or 455).
Sorry posting via google, lost some articles because I had maximum set in
my newsreader, this thread is very very long.
Jan
 
J

Jan Panteltje

John Woodgate said:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Jan Panteltje
01.evisp.enertel.nl>) about 'Old-fart electronics quiz', on Tue, 20 Jan
2004:


There is no image-frequency problem at 909kHz, it's twice-IF radiation
from the detector: 455 x 2 = 910 kHz. Hence a 1 kHz beat-note with the
909 kHz incoming carrier.

Image frequency problems occur with LF stations, e.g. 198 kHz in UK.
Oscillator is at 198 + 455 = 653 kHz. The image frequency is 653 + 455 =
1108 kHz. A strong station at 1107 kHz (we have 9 kHz channels in
Europe) would give a 1 kHz beat note, but the stations on 1107 kHz are
weak in UK so there is no problem.

I don't have the frequencies of the French LF stations now but I expect
that at least one suffers from an image frequency problem with 455 kHz
IF.

OK I wanted to measure the IF of this Yoko radio.
I did not want to open it, long time ago I removed the 2 wires
hanging out of the last IF (remember those weather fax programs in DOS ;-)
I actually DID receive something with it once.
It is actually made in the UK, and, hey they listened to you! See why:
So how to measure the IF (without a counter connecting to it).
I took an Sony walkman with radio (motor defective but radio OK).
It is also digital, so I tuned it to 909 kHz (almost 2 x 455 kHz).
Then both receivers on, and the Sony headphones on, Yoko also tuned to 909
kHz.
No interference when held together...
(both received the same station without problem).
No I tuned the Sony to 900 (2 x 450), now a deep humming (100Hz or there
about, especially if you hold teh Sony close to where the last IF stage is
in the Yoko.
So from this we can conclude that the Yoko IF is indeed 450 kHz,
the PLL is indicated on the back of that radio as 9 kHz step for medium wave.
It was made by Centron LTD
So, as other poster already mentioned, the 9 kHZ offset PLL with 450 KHz IF.
John Woodgate, you were right, this also clearly demonstrates the
interference, even between 2 radios.
Learned something again.
How about my IF frequency determination method :)?
Jan
 
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