New House Alarm - Am I locked out?

[JoeRaisin]

may have a hard time downloading on a dsl line without a RJ31X DSL filter
and access code if previously downloaded. better option would be to send
the board to Rojas or Cambell to get unlocked. I think unlockiing will
leave programming ??? intact.

Has anyone made our intrepid advendurer aware that he needs to identify
the resistance of the EOLR's (assuming they are not in the panel) and
ensure that he replaces this board (if that is the route he chooses)
with one that uses the same values?

That will save him from having to find them, dig them out and change them.

If they are in the panel (which I would almost bet on) then he is home
free...

 

[[email protected]]

Has anyone made our intrepid advendurer aware that he needs to identify

the resistance of the EOLR's (assuming they are not in the panel) and
ensure that he replaces this board (if that is the route he chooses)
with one that uses the same values?

That will save him from having to find them, dig them out and change them.

If they are in the panel (which I would almost bet on) then he is home
free...

Care to clarify what this means for something who knows nothing about
alarms? End of line resistance, perhaps? There are a collection of
resistors sitting unused in the panel, and I have the capability to
measure the resistances of various paths as I know my way around a
multimeter.

 

[Crash Gordon]

End Of Line Resistor. Which theoretically should be...well...at the END of
the line.

Different alarm panels use different value resistors, so if they were
installed where they theoretically belong (at the end of the line) then
you'd maybe hafta dig them out of the wall(s) to change them...theoretically
speaking of course.

Some panels use different values on the same board...like one for burg zone,
an different one for fire zone...and sheesshhhhh another for zone-doubling
(yikes on that one)




|> Has anyone made our intrepid advendurer aware that he needs to identify
| > the resistance of the EOLR's (assuming they are not in the panel) and
| > ensure that he replaces this board (if that is the route he chooses)
| > with one that uses the same values?
| >
| > That will save him from having to find them, dig them out and change
them.
| >
| > If they are in the panel (which I would almost bet on) then he is home
| > free...
|
| Care to clarify what this means for something who knows nothing about
| alarms? End of line resistance, perhaps? There are a collection of
| resistors sitting unused in the panel, and I have the capability to
| measure the resistances of various paths as I know my way around a
| multimeter.
|
|

 

[JoeRaisin]

End Of Line Resistor. Which theoretically should be...well...at the END of
the line.

Different alarm panels use different value resistors, so if they were
installed where they theoretically belong (at the end of the line) then
you'd maybe hafta dig them out of the wall(s) to change them...theoretically
speaking of course.

Some panels use different values on the same board...like one for burg zone,
an different one for fire zone...and sheesshhhhh another for zone-doubling
(yikes on that one)

End of Line resitors are used to supervise alram circuits and inform the
panel that someon has either opened a circuit (cut the wire) or has
shorted a circuit (trying to bypass the protected opening.

If you don't see resistors connected to the zone terminals then either
the resistors are out in the field or they weren't used at all (can a
147 do this?).

If its an ademco built panel then I would guess that each zone uses the
same value.(will a 147 zone double?)

Using the diagram on the inside of the cover (at least one should be
there) remove the wires from the two terminals that make up one zone and
check the resitance. I would guess that you are looking for either one
or two K Ohms. of course you have to veryfy that the circuit you are
checking is in working order so you will have to identify which opening
the zone covers and then check it with the door open and then closed.
If it is a motion detector then you have to apply power to the device in
order to get proper readings.

If Zone doubling was done (two independent zones operating from a single
set of zone terminals by employing two different valued resitors in
paralell that in the normal state equate to the typical resistance the
panel looks for. When the resistance changes the panel knows which zone
has been faulted by the remaining resistance) you will then have to
identify which two openings (or groups of openings) are covered and by
the resitance values which zone they are.

If you want replace the panel and the reistors are in the field then you
have to find a panel that matches those values.

Let's just hope that isn't the case since this would take an experienced
tech (or two) quite a while to map out. It's doubtful.

Anyway, if you want replace the panel and the reistors are in the field
then you have to find a panel that matches those values. You are in
luck there since Ademco (now Honeywell) made the First Alert line of
products and hasn't played around too much with resistor values so any
First Alert o Vista panel from that era will likely work.

I say all this with the caveat that I have never worked on an FA147 so
my musings could be way off.

 

[Julian]

Assuming of course no monies were owed on the panel, the issue is
really the correctness or not of locking it in the first place.
Assuming they did lock it for no valid reason, then they DO have an
obligation to make the situation right (since they had no right to
make the situation WRONG to begin with). It's called restitution for a
wrong committed.

Perhaps the original owner no longer wanted to use the alarm and asked
for it to be disabled so it can never cause any headaches. Your
assumption is a) the panel is locked and b) the servicing/installation
co. disabled the alarm wrongly and should then enable it for free.

Where's the proof it's locked out? The original poster doesn't have
enough knowledge to say it's locked out with certainty.

And if it was disabled per the request of the original homeowner, then
the installing co. SHOULD charge for the service call to enable it.

I've had calls from people who've purchased a home with an alarm in it
and they don't want it. They want it removed, but instead will power
the system down so it can't make any noise and I unplug the phone jack
so it can't tie up the phone line. If the house sells and the next
owner wants the alarm up and running, damned right there's a charge.
And it's a valid charge. If you purchase a house and the oven doesn't
work, should the original seller (eg. Sears) return to fix it for
free? Good luck with that! Even if the previous homeowner requested
the oven be disabled the new owner has to deal with it and pay for
repairs if necessay.

Obligations or not to the new owner has nothing to do with it. It's
called doing the right thing.

Doing the right thing..... BS. My time and material is valuable. If
I'm out doing free work all day, how do the bills get paid? You may
choose to live in voluntary poverty, but you're one of only a very
few.

 

[Robert L Bass]

Perhaps the original owner no longer

wanted to use the alarm and asked
for it to be disabled so it can never
cause any headaches...

In over 30 years in the business I have yet ti see a case where that has happened. I have seen numerous alarms that had been
disabled by the installing company when the alarm owner canceled the monitoring contract after completing the original term.

BTW, on one occasion I replaced an alarm system which had been disabled by the alarm company in a restaurant which had been sold.
The original owners canceled prior to selling the building. When we installed the system we removed and boxed up the old hardware
(Radionics stuff) and called the original dealer to inform them where to pick up the panel if they wanted it since the box said
"Propert of ###" on the cover.

The original alarm company never came to pick up the panel during the several months the building was being modified. A month after
the new place opened I was invited for dinner by the new owners. I went in the office and they still had the old hardware in the
box where I'd put it. I called the company again and reminded them to get their hardware. When they didn't respond for another two
weeks the customer throough it out.

A month or so later the company contacted the customer and demanded he return their system, pay them $2,000 for the "software" in
the dialer (the "software" was actually just their phone number and the account number) or sign with them for a new system which
they would monitor. The customer told them where to go. They threatened suit against him for theft and me for tortious
interference. Idiots!

Your assumption is a) the panel is locked...

A very common occurence.

and b) the servicing/installation co. disabled
the alarm wrongly and should then enable it
for free.

It doesn't belong to them. They had no right to
disable it. How would you feel if Huyndai disabled
your new car because you didn't pay them to
service it after the warranty expired?

Where's the proof it's locked out?

Where's the proof that it's not?

The original poster doesn't have enough
knowledge to say it's locked out with certainty.

And if it was disabled per the request
of the original homeowner...

That is an assumption you are making
based on wishful thinking. Making your
argument based on an unlikely assumption
is practically... well, Bush-like.

If you purchase a house and the oven
doesn't work, should the original seller
(eg. Sears) return to fix it for free?

Sears doesn't disable ovens after the
homeowner pays for them.

Good luck with that! Even if the previous
homeowner requested the oven be
disabled the new owner has to deal with
it and pay for repairs if necessay.

I haven't run across any disabled or locked
out ovens lately. Have you?

Doing the right thing..... BS...

Sad.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Robert L Bass]

the customer throough it out...

Threw. :^)

 

[[email protected]]

Perhaps the original owner no longer wanted to use the alarm and asked
for it to be disabled so it can never cause any headaches. Your
assumption is a) the panel is locked and b) the servicing/installation
co. disabled the alarm wrongly and should then enable it for free.

Where's the proof it's locked out? The original poster doesn't have
enough knowledge to say it's locked out with certainty.

Well there's only two bypass strategies on this board. Neither one of
them work. Viewing the installer code is locked out, and attempting
to change any values produces an error. Beyond that, it's certainly
locked out as Guardian themselves have told me that they locked me
out.

And if it was disabled per the request of the original homeowner, then
the installing co. SHOULD charge for the service call to enable it.

It wasn't. I've talked to the previous homeowner about it and they
disabled the alarm the day they canceled their monitoring service.

I've had calls from people who've purchased a home with an alarm in it
and they don't want it. They want it removed, but instead will power
the system down so it can't make any noise and I unplug the phone jack
so it can't tie up the phone line. If the house sells and the next
owner wants the alarm up and running, damned right there's a charge.
And it's a valid charge. If you purchase a house and the oven doesn't
work, should the original seller (eg. Sears) return to fix it for
free? Good luck with that! Even if the previous homeowner requested
the oven be disabled the new owner has to deal with it and pay for
repairs if necessay.

Are you kidding me? If it was unplugged from the power and phone
line, any idiot could fix it without your help. No need to have the
original servicer return at all! Obviously they should pay you for
your time should you have to come out, but there would be no reason
for you to. Besides that, they could press a few buttons on their
downloader and be done with it. I've now tested all the zones and the
system is completely functional, they just shut it down. They could
re-enable it remotely if they weren't being such jerks about it.

Doing the right thing..... BS. My time and material is valuable. If
I'm out doing free work all day, how do the bills get paid? You may
choose to live in voluntary poverty, but you're one of only a very
few.

You sound pretty defensive about the whole thing. In any case, you've
completely skirted the issue. I've asked Guardian to come out and fix
the board and pay for the service call, and they flat out refuse.
They now claim that even though I'm the owner of the system, the only
way they're required by law to let me pay them to come out and fix it
is if the smoke alarms are function only with the system enabled.
Mine function without the alarm, so they told me to get lost. The
issue is not that I wouldn't pay them to fix it, it's that they won't
do it at all.

 

[Carl Carlson]

You sound pretty defensive about the whole thing. In any case, you've
completely skirted the issue. I've asked Guardian to come out and fix
the board and pay for the service call, and they flat out refuse.
They now claim that even though I'm the owner of the system, the only
way they're required by law to let me pay them to come out and fix it
is if the smoke alarms are function only with the system enabled.
Mine function without the alarm, so they told me to get lost. The
issue is not that I wouldn't pay them to fix it, it's that they won't
do it at all.

Won't do it at all, or won't do it without a monitoring contract?
js

 

[Robert L Bass]

Any good word on your tests?

Yep. The biopsy was negative. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Robert L Bass]

Won't do it at all, or won't do it without a monitoring contract?

He should not have to pay them for monitoring in order to get them to undo the wrong which they did. The alarm company is a bunch
of thieves. Why defend them?

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[hayes]

He should not have to pay them for monitoring in order to get them to undo
the wrong which they did. The alarm company is a bunch of thieves. Why
defend them?

gotta agree wit u on dis 1

 

[[email protected]]

Won't do it at all, or won't do it without a monitoring contract?
js

I want it working only locally for now, which they won't do. They
will re-enable it if I sign a monitoring contract with them. I'd
considered telling them "Sure, set it up", keeping it for a month,
disconnecting the phone line, and then canceling. Not with a
contract, though. And with my luck they'd send someone out insisting
to be let in to shut it down. Then they started acting like jerks and
I wouldn't give them a dime. That's too bad for them. If they had
cooperated now, we may have considered using them for monitoring down
the road at some point. I have now received no less than 3 mailers
from them telling me to I should sign a monitoring contract with
them. I've only had the house for a week.

The phone company was out today, so I now have an incoming line. I'm
on my way to swapping out the board.

 

[Robert L Bass]

Great!

Keep up the good work!

I'm feeling a little stronger each month. At this
rate I'll be ummm... weak in another year. :^)
All kidding aside, I'm doing pretty well. I tire
easily and I'm always out of breath but it's not
as bad as it was.

Last Saturday we had a small party (about 60
friends) for my wife's birthday. She was in
Brazil on the actual day so I threw the party
after she got back. We grilled about 25 pounds
of picanha (Brazilian style steaks) and I made
a ton of other stuff. We were eating, dancing
and drinking until 5:00 am. Some of the regulars
here know my ADI rep. He and his family were
there, too.

It would have been neat if RC could have been
around. He's the only one in the newsgroup
who has visited my home. If you ever make it
to SW Florida, you'll have to visit. I make a
mean BBQ. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Robert L Bass]

I want it working only locally for now,

which they won't do...

Jason,

This alarm company is a black eye on
the industry. They really shouldn't be
in the trade at all.

I'm not sure which current Honeywell panel
is equivalent to your First Alert unit but if
you'd like to swap it out let me know. I'll
have Honeywell send you a new panel at
cost.

The "SE" series panels are discontinued.
The current panels have a "P" designation.
Following are dealer prices on the panels:
You'll need a 6160 keypad to program the
system. They cost more than some panels.

Vista-10P .. $86.00
Vista-15P .. $91.19
Vista-20P .. $100.39
6160 .. $97.39

There are kits that include panel, keypad
and a siren or battery. They cost less than
just a panel and keypad.

If you ever want to have it monitored in
the future there are a couple of companies
that charge between $8 and $12 a month.
IIRC, their contracts are for one year. I
don't offer monitoring.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Robert L Bass]

A few guys from the office have been to

Software House training in your neck of the woods. I hear it's a very long drive
down "gator alley". If I get sent there I'll
look you up.

If you were coming from Miami, yes it's
about 4 hours. We're nowhere near
the "Alley" though. That runs from near
Naples over to the East coast. We're
about an hour South of Tampa. Just let
me know if you can make it and I'll fire
up the grill. :^)

Glad to hear things are looking up for
you and your health.

Thanks.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[[email protected]]

Got a call from Guardian today, in addition to the 3 letters I've
gotten this week. I guess they pulled my cell phone number from their
caller ID. They wanted to know if I wanted to sign their monitoring
contract "yet", as if it's a certainty that I'll sign it later. I
tried to get the original purchase agreement, but they can't provide
it as it has the original owner's social security numbers on it. Is
this normal practice? What possible use could they have for social
security numbers? I just wanted some proof of their claim that I own
this thing so that when I rip out the board I can prove I own the
sensors if they decide to give me problems down the road.

 

[Frank Olson]

alarman wrote:

Some people tend to conveniently forget their obligations when they move.
That might be why you're locked out. Why not call the alarm co and just ask
why they locked the board?
js

That solution is way to simple. It boggles the mind...

 

[[email protected]]

That solution is way to simple. It boggles the mind...

Yes, and it was also one of the first things I did. This company
always locks out the alarms when their monitoring contracts are
terminated. As I've mentioned in at least a few posts, the company
itself says neither I nor the previous owner has any further
obligation towards them as the system was purchased outright.

 

[Robert L Bass]

Yes, and it was also one of the first things I

did. This company always locks out the
alarms when their monitoring contracts are
terminated. As I've mentioned in at least a
few posts, the company itself says neither I
nor the previous owner has any further
obligation towards them as the system was
purchased outright...

They have taken what is not lawfully theirs
and altered it so that the only way its rightful
owner (you) can use it is by paying them.
In other words, they're thieves.

Disgusting!

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>