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New House Alarm - Am I locked out?

C

CROUP MONSTERATOR

if you don't want to name them outright then give us a hint. is it Br*nks,
A*T, M*nitr*nics, etc, you get the drift?
 
I

I brive a dus

if you don't want to name them outright then give us a hint. is it Br*nks,
A*T, M*nitr*nics, etc, you get the drift? <

First Alert dealers have their own network. You won't find them
involved with ADT, Brinks, or the Monkster.
He also said they were based out of PA and the company name is
Guardian.
 
D

Doug

I think that's about the size of it, if the system doesn't work then the
current homeowners recourse would probably be against the seller, in turn
the seller could pursue the alarm company, but I don't believe the alarm
company has any legal obligation to do anything for the current owner. If
they disabled the alarm system after the house was sold then that may be a
different matter.

Contacting the seller or their agent may get a quicker result than trying to
pursue a third party, especially since it probably only a few hundred
dollars, labo(u)r included.


Doug
 

I'm not sure who the exact installer was as they didn't leave a card
or anything, but that company is an authorized dealer for my
monitoring company. The website for Guardian is http://www.guardianprotection.com/
.. It is them that I've had difficulty with. They used Guardian-
branded First Alert keypads (or at least did at the time my alarm was
installed). After my treatment so far, there's no way I'd ever use
them for monitoring, so don't worry about that. At some point I'll
probably hook it up to a monitoring company, but probably not for
awhile. Perhaps I'll leave everything as it is for now and replace it
with a modern system in a year or so. I'm just finding it hard to
justify a $150 expenditure on old hardware that few people are going
to have experience with. It's a tough decision.

Honestly, there's no way I can go after these guys. While they say on
the phone that I own the system, I have no proof that's indeed the
case. The word of some rep on the phone wouldn't hold up in any
court, so that's not the way to go. I'm going to try again in a
little while to get them to change their minds and come out and fix
the thing. If I pay them for their time to make the change I simply
don't see what the big deal is. Maybe I can get a hold of someone
more sympathetic.

As for the smoke detectors, these particular units do have 9V backup
batteries in them. There are two separate cables coming out of them,
so I think one goes back to the alarm and one to the house's breaker
panel (can't tell for sure, breaker and alarm are 4" apart and covered
with insulation). I'll try the posted method tonight to ensure that
they'll work without the alarm enabled. The house is not currently
inhabited, so there's no immediate risk. I'll make sure that's taken
care of before we move in for sure.
 
I

I brive a dus

I'm not sure who the exact installer was as they didn't leave a card
or anything, but that company is an authorized dealer for my
monitoring company. The website for Guardian ishttp://www.guardianprotection.com/
. It is them that I've had difficulty with. They used Guardian-
branded First Alert keypads (or at least did at the time my alarm was
installed). After my treatment so far, there's no way I'd ever use
them for monitoring, so don't worry about that. At some point I'll
probably hook it up to a monitoring company, but probably not for
awhile. Perhaps I'll leave everything as it is for now and replace it
with a modern system in a year or so. I'm just finding it hard to
justify a $150 expenditure on old hardware that few people are going
to have experience with. It's a tough decision.

Honestly, there's no way I can go after these guys. While they say on
the phone that I own the system, I have no proof that's indeed the
case. The word of some rep on the phone wouldn't hold up in any
court, so that's not the way to go. I'm going to try again in a
little while to get them to change their minds and come out and fix
the thing. If I pay them for their time to make the change I simply
don't see what the big deal is. Maybe I can get a hold of someone
more sympathetic.

As for the smoke detectors, these particular units do have 9V backup
batteries in them. There are two separate cables coming out of them,
so I think one goes back to the alarm and one to the house's breaker
panel (can't tell for sure, breaker and alarm are 4" apart and covered
with insulation). I'll try the posted method tonight to ensure that
they'll work without the alarm enabled. The house is not currently
inhabited, so there's no immediate risk. I'll make sure that's taken
care of before we move in for sure.

Ok Where are you located?
 
It appears that I'm alright with the smoke detectors. They seem to
work even with the system disabled. But it does get worse. The owner
had every exterior light on the house (save the porch light) hooked
through motion detectors controlled by the security system so I have
no exterior lighting. Guardian still claims that I own the board and
they own the programming, so I'm at an impasse with them.

If the total replacement cost was $30, I wouldn't have any problems.
Unfortunately it's not. And that leaves me with many questions. If
I'm reading the manuals properly you can't program the boards with the
standard fixed keypads. What should I be looking for in a
replacement? I can't seem to find a FA147C anywhere. Is the
equivalent Ademco model the Vista 10SE? I believe so, but I'm not
certain. I'll be able to retain all my old sensors, but will have to
replace the keypad, correct? Will any alpha keypad work or do I need
a specific one? Will the wiring run for the fixed keypad be able to
run an alpha keypad? I see the 6139 and 6160 pretty commonly. Are
the sensors compatible throughout the Vista line? For example, if I
find a Vista 20 kit or something with keypads and all would it work
with the current sensors? Since that include my exterior lighting,
I'd prefer to not replace those unless necessary.
 
And it's not even completely about the money. I'm getting berated for
not swapping out my board immediately, but once I pull that thing out
I lose all information about my system. If you're familiar with
alarms and are professional installers, as I'm sure many of you are,
replacement is the obvious and easy choice. For someone with little
knowledge of how the system works, it's a little daunting. I like to
tinker and have a decent electronics background, so I'm not afraid of
doing it myself, it's just that I don't know what I'm doing. The
installation and programming manuals seem woefully short of details on
proper zoning, and the portion on programming the zones seems almost
indecipherable. Just a little worried, is all.
 
N

Nelson Muntz

It appears that I'm alright with the smoke detectors. They seem to
work even with the system disabled. But it does get worse. The owner
had every exterior light on the house (save the porch light) hooked
through motion detectors controlled by the security system so I have
no exterior lighting. Guardian still claims that I own the board and
they own the programming, so I'm at an impasse with them.

The security system is not controlling your lights. If anything there
is an X-10 module that makes them blink. Take a picture of the
transformer and send it to [email protected]

If the total replacement cost was $30, I wouldn't have any problems.
Unfortunately it's not. And that leaves me with many questions. If
I'm reading the manuals properly you can't program the boards with the
standard fixed keypads. What should I be looking for in a
replacement? I can't seem to find a FA147C anywhere. Is the
equivalent Ademco model the Vista 10SE? I believe so, but I'm not
certain. I'll be able to retain all my old sensors, but will have to
replace the keypad, correct? Will any alpha keypad work or do I need
a specific one? Will the wiring run for the fixed keypad be able to
run an alpha keypad? I see the 6139 and 6160 pretty commonly. Are
the sensors compatible throughout the Vista line? For example, if I
find a Vista 20 kit or something with keypads and all would it work
with the current sensors? Since that include my exterior lighting,
I'd prefer to not replace those unless necessary.

Tell ya what --- I'll send you a Vista-15P brand new board and program
it for $100.

You need to provide the telco hookup so I can connect to it with my
down loader.
 
C

Crash Gordon

before you rip it apart figure out what the zones are and write it down. tag
the wires so you know EXACTLY where they go...then maybe take Nelson's
offer and you can get it back up and running with new board.




| And it's not even completely about the money. I'm getting berated for
| not swapping out my board immediately, but once I pull that thing out
| I lose all information about my system. If you're familiar with
| alarms and are professional installers, as I'm sure many of you are,
| replacement is the obvious and easy choice. For someone with little
| knowledge of how the system works, it's a little daunting. I like to
| tinker and have a decent electronics background, so I'm not afraid of
| doing it myself, it's just that I don't know what I'm doing. The
| installation and programming manuals seem woefully short of details on
| proper zoning, and the portion on programming the zones seems almost
| indecipherable. Just a little worried, is all.
|
 
The security system is not controlling your lights. If anything there
is an X-10 module that makes them blink. Take a picture of the
transformer and send it to [email protected]

That could be it, then. I see there are motion sensors on the lights
themselves that don't trigger, so I figured they're all hooked in
together. I can get you pictures of anything tomorrow, but I'm not
exactly sure what you're asking for. The AC to DC transformer is
hidden behind insulation and I can't get at it, but I can have picture
of the system box itself or the exterior lighting. The lights
themselves are flush mounted and caulked, otherwise I probably would
have pulled them out already to see what could be done with them.
Tell ya what --- I'll send you a Vista-15P brand new board and program
it for $100.

You need to provide the telco hookup so I can connect to it with my
down loader.

This I might take you up on. I'm considering going with a telco DSL
internet solution which provides an incoming phone line at no charge,
so you'd be able to dial in. The telco said they could have a line up
within a week. Give me a few days to get things in order and I'll get
back to you. I really appreciate the offer.

before you rip it apart figure out what the zones are and write it down. tag
the wires so you know EXACTLY where they go...then maybe take Nelson's
offer and you can get it back up and running with new board.

I see where each zone connects on the board itself. I could tag the
wires so they go to the same zones on the new board, but I still
wouldn't know what each zone does. Is there a way to determine what
zones monitor what sensors when the alarm is completely
nonfunctional? I can bring up programming mode, but pretty much every
setting I tried to access I was locked out of. I remember seeing a
test mode, perhaps I'm not locked out of that.
 
J

JoeRaisin

That could be it, then. I see there are motion sensors on the lights
themselves that don't trigger, so I figured they're all hooked in
together. I can get you pictures of anything tomorrow, but I'm not
exactly sure what you're asking for. The AC to DC transformer is
hidden behind insulation and I can't get at it, but I can have picture
of the system box itself or the exterior lighting. The lights
themselves are flush mounted and caulked, otherwise I probably would
have pulled them out already to see what could be done with them.




This I might take you up on. I'm considering going with a telco DSL
internet solution which provides an incoming phone line at no charge,
so you'd be able to dial in. The telco said they could have a line up
within a week. Give me a few days to get things in order and I'll get
back to you. I really appreciate the offer.




I see where each zone connects on the board itself. I could tag the
wires so they go to the same zones on the new board, but I still
wouldn't know what each zone does. Is there a way to determine what
zones monitor what sensors when the alarm is completely
nonfunctional? I can bring up programming mode, but pretty much every
setting I tried to access I was locked out of. I remember seeing a
test mode, perhaps I'm not locked out of that.
I am familiar with 142's 162's and current panels but have never seen a
147 but the terminals should follow the same layout.

On the door to the panel there should be a print of the board and which
terminals comprise each zone. Remove the wires from the zone terminals
(wich are then tagged) then connect a mulitmeter to them. you should
read about 2 K ohms on each zone for this board (If I'm wrong someone
shout out) Then open doors and windows until you get an open (or a
short if the device is normally open). Powered devices like motion
detectors will have to be connected to 12 VDC. If the system was
installed like ours then this should be the red and black wires on
terminals 4 & 5 (again - if this is wrong someone correct me.)

If you can't tell then there is no harm in connecting everything from
terminals 4 & 5 to the battery but I generally connect the pairs one at
a time to see what they are powering.

Good luck.
 
B

Bud

This I might take you up on. I'm considering going with a telco DSL
internet solution which provides an incoming phone line at no charge,
so you'd be able to dial in. The telco said they could have a line up
within a week. Give me a few days to get things in order and I'll get
back to you. I really appreciate the offer.

may have a hard time downloading on a dsl line without a RJ31X DSL filter
and access code if previously downloaded. better option would be to send
the board to Rojas or Cambell to get unlocked. I think unlockiing will
leave programming ??? intact.
 
C

Crash Gordon

Turn the Chime mode on (Code+Chime) then stand at the keypad with all
doors/windows closed and have someone walk around and open doors/windows one
at a time and make a list of what zone that opening shows on the keypad. On
FA stuff Chime doesn't work for Interior devices (pirs) so you just have to
watch which zone shows up when someone walks through each motion detector.

Then make up a list of zones.

(you can do it without the chime, but it helps the "walker" know when to
move on to the next opening...saves yelling)


| > The security system is not controlling your lights. If anything there
| > is an X-10 module that makes them blink. Take a picture of the
| > transformer and send it to [email protected]
|
| That could be it, then. I see there are motion sensors on the lights
| themselves that don't trigger, so I figured they're all hooked in
| together. I can get you pictures of anything tomorrow, but I'm not
| exactly sure what you're asking for. The AC to DC transformer is
| hidden behind insulation and I can't get at it, but I can have picture
| of the system box itself or the exterior lighting. The lights
| themselves are flush mounted and caulked, otherwise I probably would
| have pulled them out already to see what could be done with them.
|
| > Tell ya what --- I'll send you a Vista-15P brand new board and program
| > it for $100.
| >
| > You need to provide the telco hookup so I can connect to it with my
| > down loader.
|
| This I might take you up on. I'm considering going with a telco DSL
| internet solution which provides an incoming phone line at no charge,
| so you'd be able to dial in. The telco said they could have a line up
| within a week. Give me a few days to get things in order and I'll get
| back to you. I really appreciate the offer.
|
| On Apr 19, 11:59 pm, "Crash Gordon" <[email protected]>
| wrote:
| > before you rip it apart figure out what the zones are and write it down.
tag
| > the wires so you know EXACTLY where they go...then maybe take Nelson's
| > offer and you can get it back up and running with new board.
|
| I see where each zone connects on the board itself. I could tag the
| wires so they go to the same zones on the new board, but I still
| wouldn't know what each zone does. Is there a way to determine what
| zones monitor what sensors when the alarm is completely
| nonfunctional? I can bring up programming mode, but pretty much every
| setting I tried to access I was locked out of. I remember seeing a
| test mode, perhaps I'm not locked out of that.
|
|
 
T

tourman

Just a point of clarification....Jim Rojas does it for all of the USA
and I (and one other person on the west coast), do if for Canada
(saves border hassles). And yes, the board can usually be unlocked
without messing up the existing programming. There is someone in the
USA on the Califormia coast who offers a gimmicky but slightly risky
way of doing it with a widget they have invented...www.unlocker.com.
Dunno if it works on this make of board though...

It's far less hassle just to buy another board and start fresh. Most
of the low end alarm equipment today is in the same league as computer
equipment...any problems, just throw it away. Besides, learning to
program it from the getgo will allow you the freedom to make changes
later on (assuming you don't hook up with another company for
monitoring)

RHC
 
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