New House Alarm - Am I locked out?

[[email protected]]

Alright. I called the monitoring company. I'd call them out by name,
but since the news is not good I think it might be wise to keep it to
myself at this point. According to them, the previous owner purchased
and owns outright the entire system, including wiring, panels,
keypads, and sensors. They supposedly never rent or lease equipment,
only sell it. The company does, however, claim to own the programming
of the unit itself and will under no circumstances allow the unit to
function locally. Not even if I pay for a tech to come out and make
the necessary changes to the unit. Nor will they provide the
installer code to allow me to reset the unit to default values (which
I checked and am locked out of). How they are allowed to disable a
functional alarm system that they do not own is beyond me. If they
want to wipe the programming since they claim they own it fine, but
they won't even allow me to reprogram my own unit. I got a supervisor
involved, but they wouldn't budge.

It sounds like my options are limited at this point. I don't think I
should have to buy a new panel, but it looks like I may have to.

As far as the smoke detectors go, it appears they are wired in through
the 110V system (I looked at this previously), but I can't be sure.
They are First Alert detectors, and the system itself has fire
monitoring capabilities, but I have no idea if the detectors are wired
through the security system because the system does not work at all.
The wires appear to go back towards the security system's mounting
box, but there's insulation behind foil there and I can't trace their
route. Is there a way for me to find out for sure if they'll function
without the alarm system enabled?

 

[Jim]

Jeez...I wonder what the ng reaction would have been if I had
suggested that......))

RHC

The "ng" .... ( I ) wouldn't have said a thing, unless you started
with your no contract ..... ummmm ..... "stuff". ;->>>>>>

 

[Robert L Bass]

Alright. I called the monitoring company. I'd call them out by name,

but since the news is not good I think it might be wise to keep it to
myself at this point. According to them, the previous owner purchased
and owns outright the entire system, including wiring, panels,
keypads, and sensors. They supposedly never rent or lease equipment,
only sell it. The company does, however, claim to own the programming
of the unit itself and will under no circumstances allow the unit to
function locally. Not even if I pay for a tech to come out and make
the necessary changes to the unit. Nor will they provide the
installer code to allow me to reset the unit to default values (which
I checked and am locked out of). How they are allowed to disable a
functional alarm system that they do not own is beyond me. If they
want to wipe the programming since they claim they own it fine, but
they won't even allow me to reprogram my own unit. I got a supervisor
involved, but they wouldn't budge.

You're clearly dealing with an alarm company from hell. These are the kind of lowlifes who ruin the industry. Their claim that
they own the software and will never release it amounts to theft of your hardware. It's called conversion in law and that's a form
of "taking." Sadly, you're not likely to get much help from the police as they consider it a civil matter even though you're being
robbed.

If you want to replace the panel with a compatible Honeywell (was Ademco) model let me know. I carry the full line.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Nick Lawrence]

Jason...

The dealer is jerking you around/ The alarm community, not to mention
other consumers, need to know who they are.

What is the name and city of the dealer?

Before you take them to court, only small claims if they are lucky,
maybe they are known to the ASA community and will respond favorably to
a friendly phone call from someone here.

Or perhaps someone from Honeywell, makers of the First Alert
Professional product, will call them.

Nick

 

[tourman]

Oh, don't worry, I won't miss a chance if it comes. It'll give you
another chance to spew more industry propaganda (and likely lay down
some more vitriol to show us once again what you're really made
of....)

RHC

 

[alarman]

That's a bunch of crap. If they own the programming, and you own the
panel they should set the panel back to -default- upon request (for
the cost of a service call). That would erase their data, and allow
you to use the panel.

However, a service call would cost $50-$100 to do so, and you can
replace the board for $30. Hell, I have a few old Vista-10's laying
around, and you can have one- but it will cost ya $10 probably to
ship.

Report it to the BBB. It sounds like they are dishonest.

1 The BBB is a sham. They don't mean shit.
2 Send the board to Jim Rojas, or just replace it. (I vote for Rojas, cuz,
well, I like him a lot.)
3 Tell all your friends, family, and anyone else who will listen including
us who the alarmco is and what they did.
4 No 4.
5 Get on with your life.
js

 

[I brive a dus]

Oh, don't worry, I won't miss a chance if it comes. It'll give you
another chance to spew more industry propaganda (and likely lay down
some more vitriol to show us once again what you're really made
of....)

RHC <

So how's the Loxxon dealer program working out for you?

 

[alarman]

Maybe not, but some consumers still value their opinion.

Some people bought Edsels.

I vote for Bass selling him one, so we can talk about the BBB again. I
like Rojas too, but hey - entertainment first!




I totally agree. The OP should let it be known right HERE who the
offender is. I'll bet the company once exposed, will change their
tune.

Probably not, but the point was to cause them financial loss. Tell as many
people as possible, and remove as many potential victims as possible.

Okay - what is up with that? Markie, Mike, and you seem to have some
private circle-jerk with that.

You need PUK74 or ROT13 to understand.

No, I live vicariously through my machine. I have never even seen one
of those "security alarms" that are talked about here. )

That was directed at the OP, as in don't sweat it. Going to court over
something like this would be stupid.
js

 

[alarman]

So how's the Loxxon dealer program working out for you?

They rejected his application. Something about his contract wasn't, well, up
to par.
js

 

[[email protected]]

My main problem with naming the service is that they're a large
company that operates in at least 17 states that I can tell. While I
have not said anything untruthful, I do not have the means to defend
against a libel suit should they take offense to my discussion of
their overall crappiness. Although I suppose I did give the panel
model number. It is a branded panel sold by only this company as far
as I can tell, so it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out who it
was. It looks like there's a couple posts in the archives here about
users with this same panel being locked out by this company.

I've found a couple cheap used and working (and reset to defaults)
Vista10s in the $10-$30 range, but the alpha keypads to do the
programming run $100ish. I don't know if I could justify spending
that much on an old system. I suppose I could buy the alpha keypad,
program the system, and then sell it again, but there were some posts
that First Alert keypads don't always work with Ademco boards. I
guess I have some decisions to make.

Thanks for the helpful offers. I just need to decide what I want to
do, now.

 

[Frank Olson]

I carry the full line.

And the BBB's heard 'em all, too...

 

[alarman]

My main problem with naming the service is that they're a large
company that operates in at least 17 states that I can tell. While I
have not said anything untruthful, I do not have the means to defend
against a libel suit should they take offense to my discussion of
their overall crappiness. Although I suppose I did give the panel
model number. It is a branded panel sold by only this company as far
as I can tell, so it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out who it
was. It looks like there's a couple posts in the archives here about
users with this same panel being locked out by this company.

I've found a couple cheap used and working (and reset to defaults)
Vista10s in the $10-$30 range, but the alpha keypads to do the
programming run $100ish. I don't know if I could justify spending
that much on an old system. I suppose I could buy the alpha keypad,
program the system, and then sell it again, but there were some posts
that First Alert keypads don't always work with Ademco boards. I
guess I have some decisions to make.

Thanks for the helpful offers. I just need to decide what I want to
do, now.

Don't be such a freaking cheapskate. Replace the board and buy the goddamned
keypad.
Shesh.
js

 

[Nick Lawrence]

Jason...
First Alert Professional has about 200 dealers nationwide.
I cannot believe that the rest of the FAP dealers condone this type of
treatment of a customer.
Who are they?
Nick

BTW, you'll need to replace both the KP and Controls.

 

[[email protected]]

Don't be such a freaking cheapskate. Replace the board and buy the goddamned

keypad.
Shesh.
js

It wouldn't be such a problem if I didn't already own a board and
keypad that should be working. This is our first house and startup
money is limited. It's not being cheap, it's being realistic. There
are other parts of the house that are in more need of attention at
this point. I thought if I could figure out a way to get the alarm
working again without spending too much money that'd be great, but I'm
not going to go spending hundreds of dollars on it. Especially since
I'll have to program it with no idea what I'm doing or where all the
sensors are. An alarm newsgroup is probably not the place to admit
such a thing, but it's the truth.

Jason...
First Alert Professional has about 200 dealers nationwide.
I cannot believe that the rest of the FAP dealers condone this type of
treatment of a customer.
Who are they?
Nick

I decided that somebody may be able to lean on these guys. The
monitoring company is Guardian Protection Services, and it looks like
they're PA based. I might try them again tomorrow to see if I can get
a different answer out of them. Maybe I just got some crabby reps.

 

[I brive a dus]

It wouldn't be such a problem if I didn't already own a board and
keypad that should be working. This is our first house and startup
money is limited. It's not being cheap, it's being realistic. There
are other parts of the house that are in more need of attention at
this point. I thought if I could figure out a way to get the alarm
working again without spending too much money that'd be great, but I'm
not going to go spending hundreds of dollars on it. Especially since
I'll have to program it with no idea what I'm doing or where all the
sensors are. An alarm newsgroup is probably not the place to admit
such a thing, but it's the truth.



I decided that somebody may be able to lean on these guys. The
monitoring company is Guardian Protection Services, and it looks like
they're PA based. I might try them again tomorrow to see if I can get
a different answer out of them. Maybe I just got some crabby reps. <

Where are you located?

 

[Crash Gordon]

You really think he'd have a case? Sheesh, we're talking about a 100 buck
circuit board and "maybe" a 50 buck keypad.

As shoddy as his treatment by may seem ...he'd have no case against them.
They didn't sell him anything, he inherited it with the house, they have no
obligation to the new owner.



| Jason...
|
| The dealer is jerking you around/ The alarm community, not to mention
| other consumers, need to know who they are.
|
| What is the name and city of the dealer?
|
| Before you take them to court, only small claims if they are lucky,
| maybe they are known to the ASA community and will respond favorably to
| a friendly phone call from someone here.
|
| Or perhaps someone from Honeywell, makers of the First Alert
| Professional product, will call them.
|
| Nick
|
|
|
| [email protected] wrote:
| > Alright. I called the monitoring company. I'd call them out by name,
| > but since the news is not good I think it might be wise to keep it to
| > myself at this point. According to them, the previous owner purchased
| > and owns outright the entire system, including wiring, panels,
| > keypads, and sensors. They supposedly never rent or lease equipment,
| > only sell it. The company does, however, claim to own the programming
| > of the unit itself and will under no circumstances allow the unit to
| > function locally. Not even if I pay for a tech to come out and make
| > the necessary changes to the unit. Nor will they provide the
| > installer code to allow me to reset the unit to default values (which
| > I checked and am locked out of). How they are allowed to disable a
| > functional alarm system that they do not own is beyond me. If they
| > want to wipe the programming since they claim they own it fine, but
| > they won't even allow me to reprogram my own unit. I got a supervisor
| > involved, but they wouldn't budge.
| >
| > It sounds like my options are limited at this point. I don't think I
| > should have to buy a new panel, but it looks like I may have to.
| >
| > As far as the smoke detectors go, it appears they are wired in through
| > the 110V system (I looked at this previously), but I can't be sure.
| > They are First Alert detectors, and the system itself has fire
| > monitoring capabilities, but I have no idea if the detectors are wired
| > through the security system because the system does not work at all.
| > The wires appear to go back towards the security system's mounting
| > box, but there's insulation behind foil there and I can't trace their
| > route. Is there a way for me to find out for sure if they'll function
| > without the alarm system enabled?
| >

 

[JoeRaisin]

Alright. I called the monitoring company. I'd call them out by name,
but since the news is not good I think it might be wise to keep it to
myself at this point. According to them, the previous owner purchased
and owns outright the entire system, including wiring, panels,
keypads, and sensors. They supposedly never rent or lease equipment,
only sell it. The company does, however, claim to own the programming
of the unit itself and will under no circumstances allow the unit to
function locally. Not even if I pay for a tech to come out and make
the necessary changes to the unit. Nor will they provide the
installer code to allow me to reset the unit to default values (which
I checked and am locked out of). How they are allowed to disable a
functional alarm system that they do not own is beyond me. If they
want to wipe the programming since they claim they own it fine, but
they won't even allow me to reprogram my own unit. I got a supervisor
involved, but they wouldn't budge.

It sounds like my options are limited at this point. I don't think I
should have to buy a new panel, but it looks like I may have to.

As far as the smoke detectors go, it appears they are wired in through
the 110V system (I looked at this previously), but I can't be sure.
They are First Alert detectors, and the system itself has fire
monitoring capabilities, but I have no idea if the detectors are wired
through the security system because the system does not work at all.
The wires appear to go back towards the security system's mounting
box, but there's insulation behind foil there and I can't trace their
route. Is there a way for me to find out for sure if they'll function
without the alarm system enabled?

If not already done, remove all power from the alarm panel (AC and
Battery) and test one of the smoke detectors Using either the push to
test button or by using canned smoke (check at a hardware store or maybe
a "different" local alarm company.

Most first alert smoke detectors that wire to an alarm panel do not have
a battery in the unit itself but use the back up power from the panel.
I could be wrong since I am not all that familiar with devices dating
back to the FA147 era. (any help here?)

You haven't said if there is a spouse or family involved here but I
recommend that you don't allow your family to spend even one night in a
house without functioning smoke detectors.

One night is all it takes.

 

[tourman]

No, don't worry about libelous statements catching up to you on a
newsgroup. If that was the case, all the hard nosed industry nutcases
on this ng would have long ago been sued to death (including me)

Go for it !

RHC

 

[tourman]

WHAT..????....you mean I beat out your bid...nice of Professor B to
let me know.......

RHC

 

[tourman]

Yeah, I guess that clause requiring an industry standard 100 year term
turned even their stomach....

RHC