Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Most awful hack job, but my kid likes it

R

Robert Latest

On 14 Nov 2005 04:29:36 -0800,
in Msg. said:
Explain to me, keith, your justification for continuing to keep
the six men listed in P. Sabin Willett's article, prisoners for
all these years? And your justification for saying these men
have no right to freedom?

People who think that death penalty, torture, and long imprisonment
without a court case are appropriate subjects for light-hearted jokes
aimed at "leftist weenies" won't be inclined to give such concerns any
serious thought.

robert
 
J

Jim Thompson

On 14 Nov 2005 04:29:36 -0800,


People who think that death penalty, torture, and long imprisonment
without a court case are appropriate subjects for light-hearted jokes
aimed at "leftist weenies" won't be inclined to give such concerns any
serious thought.

robert

Please keep this in the original thread...

From: Winfield Hill <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: OT - Innocent men held as Guantanamo Bay prisoners

where it originated.

But should non-citizens be afforded the rights of full citizenship?

...Jim Thompson
 
D

Dave Hinz

So, what do you do, kill everybody in the world? Or only those who
disagree with you? You have the weaponry, you know. You could obliterate
all life on the planet maybe a thousand times over.

I have an idea, how about we just stop the people who directly threaten
us?
Is that your true goal? The end of all life, just to prove a point?
(Which, I might point out, is wrong?)

OK, so what's the right answer? We should just "protest in the
strongest possible terms" again? That's what got our airplanes run into
our buildings, if you may recall - we responded weakly, they were
emboldened, and a bunch of people died because of it. I don't see that
as a successful strategy.
Geezis what a bunch of nazi wannabes...

There you go Godwin'ing the thread.
 
D

Dave Hinz

OK - here's where I have a bone to pick with the warmakers. What,
exactly, does "seen as a sign of weakness" mean,

You're joking. "We bombed their ship, and their president was so
occupied with is girlfriend, he didn't do anything. We bombed their
embassies, and they "protested strongly". We can get away with whatever
we want, and all they'll do is squeal about it."

That kind of thing.
but more importantly,
possibly fundamentally so, is: What gives you the magical power
to see into their minds, and into the future?

If you don't pay attention to history, then news will always be a
surprise to you, I suppose.
Just answer those two things, and then we can continue the
discussion based on the assumption that _your_ conjectures are
The Truth. ;-)

Weak responses to terrorist acts have led to terrorist acts of greater
intensity. Intense responses to terrorist acts have, so far, prevented
more terrorist acts on US soil. Seems pretty obvious to me - hit the
bully back in the face, and he backs down.
 
D

Dave Hinz

Yadda, yadda, what a party line. Did you ever stop to consider that if
we _weren't_ attacking them _there_, that they would have no _reason_
to fight us here, or there, or anywhere?

Yeah, we tried that. It got the WTC knocked down, maybe you heard of
that little incident?
Yes, and I recall seeing the website that mapped it 1:1 onto the
destruction by US/Israeli missiles

Cite, please?
of Lebanon's tallest structure, and
the murder of thousands, and that the 9-11 thing was revenge. Well, 2:1;
we only knocked down the one (along with who-knows-how-much "collateral
damage"), we, in our lofty arrogance, had the two.
Stop attacking them, stop destroying their homes, stop cramming our
way of life down their throat, maybe the toughest one of all, MIND OUR
OWN BUSINESS!.

That stops working when they attack us.
 
R

Richard Henry

Jim Thompson said:
Please keep this in the original thread...

From: Winfield Hill <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: OT - Innocent men held as Guantanamo Bay prisoners

where it originated.

But should non-citizens be afforded the rights of full citizenship?

"Full Citizenship"? Which rights are we talking about here?

I recall reading somewhere about an ethical theory that it is "self-evident"
that "all men are created equal", with no exceptions noted for those
captured in Asia.
 
J

Jim Thompson

"Full Citizenship"? Which rights are we talking about here?

I recall reading somewhere about an ethical theory that it is "self-evident"
that "all men are created equal", with no exceptions noted for those
captured in Asia.

Then form your own fucking village idiot country. It's time we
started machine-gunning illegal immigrants, or at least sentence them
to one year on the rock pile then send them back.

...Jim Thompson
 
R

Richard Henry

Jim Thompson said:
Then form your own fucking village idiot country. It's time we
started machine-gunning illegal immigrants, or at least sentence them
to one year on the rock pile then send them back.

Is that your personal opinion, or that of Conservative America, or the
Republican Party, or the White House?
 
J

Jim Thompson

Is that your personal opinion, or that of Conservative America, or the
Republican Party, or the White House?

Personal opinion.

You don't like it? Tough!

...Jim Thompson
 
R

Richard the Dreaded Libertarian

Well, golly-gee there, Parson. Thanks so much for your little dose of
absolution. I guess. Do me a small favor. Get your self over there for a
few years. The jobs pay very well. Then get back to me on just exactly how
you feel about radical Islamists. We'll talk it over. I'm buying the beer.

Did my time during the 'Nam fiasco, and there it was "godless commies" and
"VC".

They didn't want us colonizing either. Or murdering them. So they threw
our imperialist asses out. The VC's suicide bombers were children, BTW.

Thanks,
Rich
 
W

Winfield Hill

Dave Hinz wrote...
"We bombed their ship, and their president was so occupied
with is girlfriend, he didn't do anything. ...

WRONG. Clinton spent only a modest amount of time with his
"girlfriend" as you call it. His preoccupation thereafter
was with the gang of Republicans who were determined to bring
him down, for whatever reason, at whatever cost. In the end
that cost was 9-11. Get real. It's all your fault.
 
G

gfulton

snippage
If you don't pay attention to history, then news will always be a
surprise to you, I suppose.


snippage


Now there's a phrase I'm going to commit to memory. Well done.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote...
Did my time during the 'Nam fiasco, and there it was
"godless commies" and "VC".

They didn't want us colonizing either. Or murdering them.
So they threw our imperialist asses out. The VC's suicide
bombers were children, BTW.

Rich, you were there, tell us, did fighting them over there
mean we didn't have to fight them over here?
 
R

Richard Henry

Jim Thompson said:
Personal opinion.

You don't like it? Tough!

Does this mean you consider the Declaration of Independence to be a leftist
weenie plot?

If so, does that mean you are moving to Canada soon?
 
G

Gunner Asch

Dave Hinz wrote...

WRONG. Clinton spent only a modest amount of time with his
"girlfriend" as you call it. His preoccupation thereafter
was with the gang of Republicans who were determined to bring
him down, for whatever reason, at whatever cost. In the end
that cost was 9-11. Get real. It's all your fault.

Odd...Clinton only spent a small amount of time getting a hummer, or
blowing coke, the evil Right took up all the rest of his time, which
as a result, ended up with 9-11. Thats your claim?

Interesting how a head injury can result in hallucinations.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
 
D

David Brown

Dave said:
You're joking. "We bombed their ship, and their president was so
occupied with is girlfriend, he didn't do anything. We bombed their
embassies, and they "protested strongly". We can get away with whatever
we want, and all they'll do is squeal about it."

That kind of thing.

The thing I miss most from the American (and British) politicians, and
many of the posters here, is the ability to look at a conflict from the
other side. You might not agree with the other side, but a bit of
thought as to how things look from their point of view makes an enormous
difference in settling any disagreement. After all, you do want all
sides to reach agreement, don't you?

After continual harassment and oppression from the West (lead by the
USA, with Britain following and the rest of the West tacitly agreeing)
and from Western supported regimes, freedom fighters ("one man's
terrorist is another man's freedom fighter") tried fighting back by
bombing a ship. Since the USA refused to do the right thing and pull
out, they bombed an embassy. Since the USA still refused to listen,
they had no choice but to get serious, and make a bit to hit the USA
where it hurt most - in the purse. It cost thousands of innocent lives
(first westerners in the USA, then Afghans and Iraqis), but that's
collateral damage in the war.

I don't agree with al Quida's aims or their methods - but I don't agree
with the USA's aims or methods either. But I know for sure that the
conflicts will *never* stop until each side starts looking at things
from the other side's point of view. There is little doubt that bin
Laden knows far more about the American way of thinking than vice versa
- he has had plenty of contact with Americans over the last twenty
years, and as a result has been playing Bush for a fool.
Weak responses to terrorist acts have led to terrorist acts of greater
intensity. Intense responses to terrorist acts have, so far, prevented
more terrorist acts on US soil. Seems pretty obvious to me - hit the
bully back in the face, and he backs down.

*Sensible* responses to terrorist acts reduces terrorism. Every
terrorism expert in the world will tell you that the Iraq war has
resulted in far more terrorists, who are better motivated, have better
training opportunities, and have more popular support than before the
war. Arguably the invasion of Afghanistan was a sensible move to combat
terrorism, if it had been carried through properly instead of dropped
half way when Bush changed attention to his pet hate.

There are two reasons why there have been no new terrorist attacks in
the USA, and only minor "reminder" attacks in other countries (London
and Madrid victims might not consider the attacks "minor", but compared
to what they could easily have been, they were minor). First, there is
no need - their aim is to economically damage the USA and to alienate it
from its allies. The US administration is currently doing this to
itself at such a rate that al Quida don't want to unbalance it.
Secondly, a major attack on the US would increase sympathy for it, which
would be counter-productive.

If you think that the USA's attack on Iraq has made the USA, or the
world in general, safer in any way, then you really are living in a box.
Al Quida could easily cause all sorts of attacks on the USA if they
choose - the attacks on London were a demonstration of this power.

And for your information, it is the USA who is the bully that was hit in
the face. It hasn't backed down yet - we can only hope that the other
children will have the courage to persuade him to mend his ways before a
victim brings a knife to the schoolyard.
 
D

David Brown

Gunner said:
On 11 Nov 2005 10:14:32 +0200, David Brown



Actually...given the numbers of politicians in the US..the vast
majority of whom you never have even heard of...Id say your claim is
unwarranted.

Accepted - I should have restricted it to USA leadership or top
politicians. In fact, that applies to politicians throughout the world
- maybe the majority of small local politicians are better.
But thats my opinion.

This is usenet - IMHO is taken for granted.
 
G

gfulton

Richard the Dreaded Libertarian said:
Did my time during the 'Nam fiasco, and there it was "godless commies" and
"VC".

They didn't want us colonizing either. Or murdering them. So they threw
our imperialist asses out. The VC's suicide bombers were children, BTW.

Thanks,
Rich

Did my time there too, Parson. Came close to coming home in a bag. So? I
come by my opinion of radical Islamists from up close and personal
experience. You don't, obviously. You want to get all warm and fuzzy about
them being eliminated, fine. To me it's a good day when our ordnance
facilitates it. I harbor no illusions about the intentions of these people.
Take your absolution, pass it through a die, and screw it right up your ass.
(Obligatory metal content.) "May God/Goddess/All That Is have mercy on your
Soul". Wow, Parson. What insufferable arrogance.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Gunner Asch wrote...
Odd...Clinton only spent a small amount of time getting a hummer,
or blowing coke, the evil Right took up all the rest of his time,
which as a result, ended up with 9-11. Thats your claim?

Interesting how a head injury can result in hallucinations.

You think Monica caused 9-11? That's hallucination.
 
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