Generator recomendations

[amdx]

I live in Florida and have a (home) business with many chest freezers.
I'm going to purchase a generator for hurricane season.
I did have a 5000 watt generator. I stored it for three years until I needed
it.
A power company transformer failed and I didn't have power.
So I pulled out the generator and connected it to my freezers.
It worked great for about 4 hrs and it died, the field coil burned up.
This time I'll spend the money and do it right.
I want one big enough so I can run the whole house, at reduced demand,
but the freezers are the big concern.
So, (off the top of my head) I'm looking at 12000 to 18000 watt.
Need recomendations for a care free generator that will (hopefully) get
very little use, but must work 5yrs or 10 years from now.
Mike

PS. I know when I get to powering the house I'll need
a tranfer box.

 

[Ecnerwal]

I live in Florida and have a (home) business with many chest freezers.
I'm going to purchase a generator for hurricane season.
I did have a 5000 watt generator. I stored it for three years until I needed
it.
A power company transformer failed and I didn't have power.
So I pulled out the generator and connected it to my freezers.
It worked great for about 4 hrs and it died, the field coil burned up.
This time I'll spend the money and do it right.
I want one big enough so I can run the whole house, at reduced demand,
but the freezers are the big concern.
So, (off the top of my head) I'm looking at 12000 to 18000 watt.
Need recomendations for a care free generator that will (hopefully) get
very little use, but must work 5yrs or 10 years from now.
Mike

PS. I know when I get to powering the house I'll need
a tranfer box.

IMHO:

Any generator should not sit for 10 (or 3) years - it should be run
under load for an hour or so every month, at minimum. The oil should be
changed once a year, minimum. My personal choice based on a lot of
research was a Northern Lights diesel. Made in USA, no problems with
odd-ball chinese/indian parts, extremely reliable reputation.

If you have natural gas available, and expect it to remain available
through a power outage, that might change your fuel choice (and that
might affect your brand choice in this case, since I think NL only does
diesel, but I could be wrong.) In any case, my basic set of what to look
for - 1800 or 1200 rpm operation (1500 or 1000 for the 50 hz folk
elsewhere) - meaning a 4-pole or 6-pole generator head. Two-pole 3600
(3000 50 hz) rpm generators beat themselves to death in short order.

Upgrade to the best muffler they have, they get tiresome to listen to.
Figure out where you're going to store enough fuel, if not using NG. It
gets very hard to find during an outage.

Get your sizing a bit less top of the head - you want one big enough,
but not loafing. You may also find that it's economically rational to
upgrade your chest freezers to consume less power year round, and let
you buy a smaller generator - or to chuck them all for a much better
insulated walk-in freezer with efficient compressor package. If you
won't be opening the freezers during the outage and expect to be at home
for most of it, you can switch off and run only some of them at a time
for an hour or so, then switch to others, and they should all stay
frozen if they have good insulation. A generator that will run your A/C
unit OR your freezers is generally going to cost much less (and use less
fuel) than one that will run both at once and a bunch of other stuff
besides.

 

[vaughn]

Do you have natural gas available?

If not, consider propane. Make gasoline your last option, (though tri-fuel
keeps all of your options alive). The biggest problem with seldom used gasoline
engines is the gasoline turning to jelly in the carb. Also, you can only store
gasoline for about a year. After a hurricane, gasoline is very difficult to
buy. Nothing is more useless than a generator without fuel. Propane gas stores
forever, and does not degrade your carb. Some generators make less power on
gaseous fuel, so plan a bit of extra capacity and/or pay attention to the
specifications of what you are buying..

I have my generator connected to my natural gas system. There is a small chance
that natural gas will not be available after a hurricane, so I keep enough
propane to last us a few days.

You will get all different opinions about what generator to buy. Unless you are
very handy, the quality of your local dealers will be part of the equation.
Others may say different, but avoid the lower end of the Generac line like the
plague.

Vaughn

 

[amdx]

IMHO:

Any generator should not sit for 10 (or 3) years - it should be run
under load for an hour or so every month, at minimum. The oil should be
changed once a year, minimum. My personal choice based on a lot of
research was a Northern Lights diesel. Made in USA, no problems with
odd-ball chinese/indian parts, extremely reliable reputation.

If you have natural gas available, and expect it to remain available
through a power outage, that might change your fuel choice (and that
might affect your brand choice in this case, since I think NL only does
diesel, but I could be wrong.) In any case, my basic set of what to look
for - 1800 or 1200 rpm operation (1500 or 1000 for the 50 hz folk
elsewhere) - meaning a 4-pole or 6-pole generator head. Two-pole 3600
(3000 50 hz) rpm generators beat themselves to death in short order.

Upgrade to the best muffler they have, they get tiresome to listen to.
Figure out where you're going to store enough fuel, if not using NG. It
gets very hard to find during an outage.

Get your sizing a bit less top of the head - you want one big enough,
but not loafing. You may also find that it's economically rational to
upgrade your chest freezers to consume less power year round, and let
you buy a smaller generator - or to chuck them all for a much better
insulated walk-in freezer with efficient compressor package. If you
won't be opening the freezers during the outage and expect to be at home
for most of it, you can switch off and run only some of them at a time
for an hour or so, then switch to others, and they should all stay
frozen if they have good insulation. A generator that will run your A/C
unit OR your freezers is generally going to cost much less (and use less
fuel) than one that will run both at once and a bunch of other stuff
besides.

--

Thanks for the info on the generator. Ya, I suspect your right,
in that I should run it occasionally. Duly noted.
Regarding freezers, I have a walk in, but the chest freezers
work out better for our business. The blower in a walk in
freezer drys out our product with all the air that circulates.
Chest type will keep good for 4 to 6 mo.
Good thinking on the either/or approach, I have an
easy way to isolate the freezer/air conditioning. I also
have thermometers that read out on my computer
and give warning if temperature goes above 5* F.
Thanks, Mike

 

[amdx]

Do you have natural gas available?

If not, consider propane. Make gasoline your last option, (though
tri-fuel keeps all of your options alive). The biggest problem with
seldom used gasoline engines is the gasoline turning to jelly in the carb.
Also, you can only store gasoline for about a year. After a hurricane,
gasoline is very difficult to buy. Nothing is more useless than a
generator without fuel. Propane gas stores forever, and does not degrade
your carb. Some generators make less power on gaseous fuel, so plan a bit
of extra capacity and/or pay attention to the specifications of what you
are buying..

I have my generator connected to my natural gas system. There is a small
chance that natural gas will not be available after a hurricane, so I keep
enough propane to last us a few days.

You will get all different opinions about what generator to buy. Unless
you are very handy, the quality of your local dealers will be part of the
equation. Others may say different, but avoid the lower end of the Generac
line like the plague.

Vaughn

You have me convinced that gas is a poorer option, I don't have
natural gas available, I'll look into the propane.
I'm handy enough, ( the problem is wanting be . That's what I did
the first time, hurricane a day away, $13,000 of product in freezers,
better get a generator. We never lost power. I couldn't do what
many, many people down here do, The return their generators
back where they bought them after the threat is gone. Although
now that I think about it, I should have, I only got 4 hrs use
before it failed. I guess I got burned.
Thanks, Mike

 

[amdx]

I live in Florida and have a (home) business with many chest freezers.
I'm going to purchase a generator for hurricane season.
I did have a 5000 watt generator. I stored it for three years until I
needed it.
A power company transformer failed and I didn't have power.
So I pulled out the generator and connected it to my freezers.
It worked great for about 4 hrs and it died, the field coil burned up.
This time I'll spend the money and do it right.
I want one big enough so I can run the whole house, at reduced demand,
but the freezers are the big concern.
So, (off the top of my head) I'm looking at 12000 to 18000 watt.
Need recomendations for a care free generator that will (hopefully) get
very little use, but must work 5yrs or 10 years from now.
Mike

PS. I know when I get to powering the house I'll need
a tranfer box.

Minimal research so far but, does diesel fuel store well?
Email sent to NL about propane, no propane info on site.
Thanks, Mike

 

[vaughn]

Minimal research so far but, does diesel fuel store well?

On the search term "Diesel fuel storage" I get 33 million Google hits. Happy
reading! The short version is that bugs can grow in diesel. You might be able
to store the suff for decades without the slightest issue, or you could buy some
already infected stuff and have a mess within months. As always, there are
folks who are happy to sell you addiitves... I have been told that clean diesel
stored in airtight drums lasts forever, but have never tried it. Where I (used
to) work, we ended up having a vender with a special truck suck all the fuel out
of our diesel generator tanks, treat it, filter it, and then return it.

Email sent to NL about propane, no propane info on site.

Usually diesels only take liquid fuel. Injectors don't work too well on gasious
fuel.

Vaughn

 

[[email protected]]

Short answer -

Brand: Onan

Fuel: propane - probably a 500 or 1000 gallon tank (to have enough
vapor pressure to run the generator) and ideally installed underground
so it's protected from most flying debris

Capacity: enough to start all the freezer compressors at once (worst
case) or you take manual control to ensure that the starting + running
power at any point is within the capability of the generator.
Example: my 5000 watt generator can't simultaneously start the furnace
blower, the refrigerator compressor and the freezer compressor but if
I sequence the startups the gen can handle the simultaneous running
load.

An unopened chest freezer should maintain temperature for hours
without power. You should unplug one freezer and watch the
temperature for several hours to see how quickly the temperature
changes. You could then plan to power each freezer for an hour or two
on an interval that maintains a safe temperature. This might allow
you to only run the generator for part of the day, which will extend
the number of days the fuel will last.

I have two gas generators (1800 watts, 5000 watts) and enough fuel to
power the furnace, fridge, and freezer for a few days. Heating for
longer periods will fall back to the cord of oak in the back yard.
Cooling in the fridge can be extended by the frozen gallons of water
in the freezer - 16 pounds of ice can keep a fridge cold for a while
if the door isn't opened much. In the 4+ years we've been in this
location, the longest the power has been off is less than 2 hours, so
the only use the generators have seen is a test run every month or so.
I see no point in starting a generator until the power has been out at
least 2 hours and the estimated restoral is more than 2 hours away.
Landline phones work forever, windup LED lantern provdes light forever
(have kerosene lamps & lanterns for backup), solar + windup radio
works forever, UPS powers home network for more than an hour, laptop
battery good for 3 hours, etc.

John

 

[vaughn]

Brand: Onan

Onan is one of the top brands. That said, since it was taken over by Cummins
all Onan products do not automatically have the quality and support that made
the Onan name famous. In short, also consider Kohler and others.

Fuel: propane - probably a 500 or 1000 gallon tank (to have enough
vapor pressure to run the generator)

The OP lives in FL, so vapor pressure will not be a huge issue unless the is
trying to pull a lot of fuel out of a small tank.

and ideally installed underground
so it's protected from most flying debris

Ideally yes, but not 100% necessary. Incidently, this is yet another advantage
of propane. Last I knew, you could still easily bury a propane tank. To bury a
diesel tank is a big deal. Leaked propane just escapes into the air; leak a few
gallons of liquid fuel and you risk having the EPA down on you big time, with
thousands in cleanup expense. Legal diesel storage tanks are of double wall
construction. They are expensive and bulky.

windup LED lantern provdes light forever
(have kerosene lamps & lanterns for backup),

This is thread drift but...

It is long past time to ditch all kerosene lighting, especially for hot weather
use. Flourescent lanterns are so good, so efficient, and so cheap that there is
no longer any need to bring fire, stink, and unwanted heat into your house. We
use LED lanterns mainly as night lights and bathroom lights (just enough light
to pee by). They give great battery life, but not enough light for reading.
Keep a few candles if you must, but we haven't even used one of those in 10
years.


Vaughn

 

[Bruce in alaska]

Minimal research so far but, does diesel fuel store well?
Email sent to NL about propane, no propane info on site.
Thanks, Mike

Having burned WWII Diesel Fuel in Sealed Drums, 40 years after they were
filled, the answer is YES, IF you take care to keep the Water out, and
only buy Clean Fuel. (No Bugs)

 

[amdx]

Ok guys, I checked out the Northern Lights generators.
I'd like to have one but I want $10,000 more. The one I'd
want is $15,000, I'm looking at spending $4 to $5,000.
So I see the Honda 6500 watt for $3,400.
I decided gas will not be a problem, we have warning
about hurricanes, my wife always fills up the vehicles,
So there's 70 or 80 gallons, (4 cars) I have a 70 gallon
stainless steel tank if I decided to put it to this use.
The Honda is a generator inverter, (more stable). That
was not my concern, even though I have 4 computers, I
could probably make it a few days without computer time.
My teen son, hmm.
My question is would the inverter (electronics) vs
a straight (mechanical) scare you away?
I'm thinking a Honda would be dependable either way.
Mike

PS. Online sites are very competitive, I found,

MSRP $4999.95

Honda EU6500iSA 6.5kw http://www.wisesales.com/HondaGenNEW.html
$3,450 Free shipping.

$3,400
http://www.harborpowerhouse.com/Honda_Generator_EU6500iSA_p/generator6.htm
Free shipping.

http://www.harborpowerhouse.com/Honda_Generator_EU6500iSA_p/generator6.htm
$3389 assmbled and shipped

 

[vaughn]

I LOVE the Honda EU series. I own an EU 2000 myself as a "second backup"..
They are quiet and very easy on gas. In fact, they are the Prius of the
generator world. That said, that generator is half the size that you were
talking about earlier. Will it really do what you want? Have you looked at the
capacity chart on the Honda generator site?

Vaughn

 

[amdx]

I LOVE the Honda EU series. I own an EU 2000 myself as a "second
backup".. They are quiet and very easy on gas. In fact, they are the
Prius of the generator world. That said, that generator is half the size
that you were talking about earlier. Will it really do what you want?
Have you looked at the capacity chart on the Honda generator site?

Vaughn

I liked the idea of splitting time between freezers on and air conditioner
on.
I have 12 freezers about 7200 watts. They are not always all full, and worse
case
I could run 6 now and 6 later. Just insurance, sometimes $15,000 to
$30,000 of product in freezers.
Mike

 

[amdx]

If the honda will do the job watt wise then get it. I'm a big fan of the
EU series. The generator will throttle down to meet the load and use a
lot
less gas and is generally a lot more quiet than a traditional gen.


It seems a lot smaller than the
"So, (off the top of my head) I'm looking at 12000 to 18000 watt."

you said earlier.

But yeah.. if the honda will handle the load you'll be happy with it.

I liked Ecnerwal's suggestion of splitting time between freezers
on and air conditioner on. Especially since my business is Shrimp sales
and the oil is getting close. Don't know if I'll be in business next year,
but if I am, I think it will be mostly frozen shrimp, not fresh from the
bay.
Anyway dollars are more important now than 3 months ago.

Mike

 

[John B. Slocomb]

Thanks for the info on the generator. Ya, I suspect your right,
in that I should run it occasionally. Duly noted.
Regarding freezers, I have a walk in, but the chest freezers
work out better for our business. The blower in a walk in
freezer drys out our product with all the air that circulates.
Chest type will keep good for 4 to 6 mo.
Good thinking on the either/or approach, I have an
easy way to isolate the freezer/air conditioning. I also
have thermometers that read out on my computer
and give warning if temperature goes above 5* F.
Thanks, Mike

I worked for years for a company that did oil support work in remote
areas and most projects required us to provide our own camp. Our
experience over the years was that almost any commercial gen-set was
suitable and that one should size the gen-set by anticipated load X
1.3 or 1.5. Over the 20 years, or so, that I worked for them I can't
remember ever having a gen-set problem. We did proper maintenance,
changed oil and filters frequently, and to the best of my recollection
we never did more then buy a set, load it on the barge with the rest
of the camp and a year, or more later, when the project ended, bring
it back to civilization and sell it as a used generator. The sets
operated 24/7 at the site.

But you do need to do a proper load survey on your requirements in
order to size the gen-set. Guessing is usually in error and usually
toward the low side resulting in an over loaded gen-set.

When I worked for another company that had a base maintenance contract
for the Air Force, in Thailand, we had a lot of portable generators
with auto-start, that were connected to any facility that required
power if commercial power failed. If I remember correctly these were
started and warmed up monthly and oil and filters changed on a
calendar basis as an hourly basis meant that they might never be
changed.

John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

 

[amdx]

That sucks about the oil Mike. Crazy thing is our shrimpers are making
bank at the moment -- prices are waay up

Prices here (Panama City Fl.) are up slightly but, the big companies from
Miss., AL., amd West of us are here looking for shrimp, so they will be
rising.
Our local tuna boats have stopped, their fishing area is closed.
We are still getting fresh shrimp everyday, but the shrimp will stop showing
soon
and we will rely on frozen shrimp. The big freezer boats still have areas to
shrimp,
just not locally.
BP is paying out money to fishermen and deckhands who are having loses.
First checks are $5000 for captain and $2,500 for deckhands. I don't
know about next month. I see a lot of fraud, people who should not get
checks
are. The losers now are hotels, restaurants, waitresses, etc. We have white
sand beaches and lots of tourists. The news kept showing oil and many, many
tourists cancelled their reservations, but we had no oil.
The shrimpers are still catching many shrimp, no problem. They see easy
money and got it. I don't know if BP will catch up to them!
I don't know yet if or how much I'm down, I'll know in January when I do
my taxes. I know my gross from month to month, but expenses are up and
down so it's hard to tell if one month is up or down.
It's not all bad we are open 10 hrs, 7 days, 363 days a years for the last
seven yrs. If we close, we could use a break. My wife is a bundle of
energy, if not for her I'd work 8 hrs, 5 days and have weekends off.

Mike

..

 

[Ade]

Usually diesels only take liquid fuel. Injectors don't work too well on gasious
fuel.

You can, if you're feeling brave, add some propane to the air intake
stream, which should - in theory - reduce the amount of diesel used (the
engine's governer will take care of it), but it's not an exact science,
and would very likely void the engine manufacturer's warranty...

You can't remove the diesel entirely, since you need something to ignite
the propane - compression alone won't do it.

 

[amdx]

Well good for them. A shrimper getting a little payback from BP ain't
going to make me cry in my beer that's for sure.

We all feel like shit a bit because we're getting higher prices due to
all these disasters.. but at the same time, small boats like ours have
been FUCKED over recent years too.. so it's kind of karma.

I say any grafter that can get a buck out of BP go for it. Screw em..

I wish the coastal fishermen had the same lobying power as say the corn
guys from the mid west. Oh yeah.. we need an open season on sea lions
and seals too

Haven't done a lot of updating lately but got a few vids of us landing
salmon for the first time in freaking 3 years on the site. The PNW has
been dealing with these idiot californians and their water and the feds
closing us down due to some farmers who used too much water.

http://www.theoceanharvest.com

We feel for you guys down in the gulf .. it's a fucker. If you can get a
few bucks off BP or any of those other rats go for it. suck em dry

(sorry for OT but WTF -- we're talking fishing)

all the best

-zachary in Oregon

Hey z,
I don't feel the same about BP, if we didn't use oil they would drill for
oil.
I think the environmentalists and nimby's are more to blame for pushing
the drilling
out into 5000 ft of water. BP would much rather drill on land or in 200 ft
of water
than where they were forced to be. It safer and much cheaper and blowout
could be
stopped in days not weeks or months.
BP employs 100's of thousands of people, there were maybe three or four
people
who made desisions that 99% of the time would have never come to be known,
but this time they all came together and we have an accident. Yes a big
accident?!
Although this is not the biggest, yet, the Campeche spill of 6-03-1979 was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I_oil_spill
Later, Mike

 

[amdx]

I'm just tired of giant corporations getting away with murder, with
absolute thieving of pensions all the while pissing in our water and
telling us it's wine.

Ok let's have some fun, Ya there may be some companies that used
pension money for the company, (bet you can't name of the top of your head)
but the real theives are the city, county and state pensions and health
plans
that the workers nevr contibuted to and now the cities, counties and
states are raising
taxes and fees to pay for these benefits that workers should paid for
themselves,
I don't feel it's my responsibility!
Then there are the unions, but don't get me started

Our Capt. Tyler represented south coast fishermen during the dungeness
crab price negotiations this year for the first time. It was crazy. The
big buyers sent professional negotiators with lawyers and teams of people
while we had like five captains from up and down the coast. They did all
they could do to pressure and screw us over for a few extra pennies a
pound knowing that we couldn't hold out because a lot of boat owners had
payments to make and mouths to feed. It was pretty insane to see how
that process works when big money goes against small individual
businesses.

Sorry, it is very difficult to negotiate from a point of financial
weakness.

However, I still do recommend the Honda Generator -- made by a giant
corporation

best

-z

Yea it's one those, can't live with them can't live without them.
But many item would be unaffordable wthout the giant corps.
Here's an interest short story about capitalism.
In pdf
http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/I, Pencil 2006.pdf
Or HTML
http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html

Thanks, Mike

 

[Malcom \Mal\ Reynolds]

Hey z,
I don't feel the same about BP, if we didn't use oil they would drill for oil.
I think the environmentalists and nimby's are more to blame for pushing
the drilling out into 5000 ft of water. BP would much rather drill on land or in 200 ft
of water than where they were forced to be. It safer and much cheaper and blowout
could be stopped in days not weeks or months.
BP employs 100's of thousands of people, there were maybe three or four people
who made desisions that 99% of the time would have never come to be known,
but this time they all came together and we have an accident. Yes a big
accident?!

Actually the cause hasn't been determined, but all of the initial reports are
pointing to negligence and of course greed (by this, I mean the intentional and
possibly systemic failure to follow the proper protocols)

Although this is not the biggest, yet, the Campeche spill of 6-03-1979 was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I_oil_spill
Later, Mike

The ixtoc oil spill (1979) was in 160 feet of water and took ten months to cap.
Of course it was only about 3000000 barrels of oil