Singapore - Infrastructure -1Gbps fibre NBN

[Rod Speed]

kreed wrote

Nothing wrong with copper lines.

They do limit the maximum speed with street distances.

No matter what grand plan they propose, its going to involve copper line at some point.

Wrong, not down the streets they dont with fibre.

Even Coax or Cat5/6 uses copper conductors.

And fibre doesnt.

ADSL 2 can go more than fast enough for the majority of people

Depends on whether you want to get DVDs and blue rays in seconds or not.

If they want more speed than that they can pay for a second or
3rd line & ADSL connection to double/triple their speed as needed.

Not practical compared with fibre.

The savings by using something that is already there would be enormous.

Yes, but the speed is much lower than with fibre.

For areas that are too far from an exchange to
get ADSL, why not run a fibre link (or similar)
from exchange to the cable pits in question to provide
a local ADSL hub that is close enough to the subscribers

Thats what RIMs and CMUXes do.

or maybe use repeaters if there are not enough
lines in an area (rural) in question to justify fibre.

Its very arguable that that is viable.

Remote areas can use satellite or wireless

Even suburban areas use wireless right now.

- wireless shouldn't be a problem in remote areas as there isn't
much radio traffic to congest the band compared to the city.

The problem is that that approach doesnt work for the longer distances.

Would cost a hell of a lot less than some of the silliness being talked about.

Yes, the NBN is certainly by far the most expensive approach.

 

[Rod Speed]

annily wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Not a lie, an opinion.

Its a lie because you dont have a shred of evidence to substantiate that opinion.

OK, some of the copper connections are crap, and copper won't last forever.

Nothing lasts forever. The copper will last well enough.

Again not a lie.

Corse its a lie.

Many people DO want more than 24 Mbps.

You dont have a shred of evidence to substantiate that claim either.

Certainly some do, most obviously those who are stupid enough to want
to download DVDs and blue rays in seconds, but what matters is whether
it makes any sense what so ever to be spending $50B to get that capability.

That's all I said. Your statement ("most...) doesn't contradict mine.

Another lie.

 

[annily]

annily wrote


Its a lie because you dont have a shred of evidence to substantiate that opinion.

It's not a lie because I believe it to be true, and you haven't provided
any evidence to the contrary.

Nothing lasts forever. The copper will last well enough.



Corse its a lie.

Of course it's not.

You dont have a shred of evidence to substantiate that claim either.

And you haven't supplied any to the contrary.

Certainly some do, most obviously those who are stupid enough to want
to download DVDs and blue rays in seconds, but what matters is whether
it makes any sense what so ever to be spending $50B to get that capability.

Yes, but that's not what I was arguing.

Another lie.

Apparently you don't understand English and/or logic. Our two statements:

"it won't support high enough speeds for many people"

and

"Most dont even pay for the highest speed available on the copper"

are not contradictory. Both can be true.

 

[Rod Speed]

annily wrote

Rod Speed wrote

It's not a lie because I believe it to be true,

That doesnt stop it being a lie, particularly when the lie is spewed
by someone else and you are stupid enough to buy that lie.

and you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary.

Another lie. The evidence to the contrary is the huge numbers who have a viable adsl service.

Of course it's not.

Wota stunning line in rational argument you have there, child.

And you haven't supplied any to the contrary.

Dont need to.

YOU ran that stupid claim.

YOU get to substantiate that stupid claim.

THATS how it works.

Yes, but that's not what I was arguing.

You werent 'arguing' a damned thing, just lying.

Apparently you don't understand English and/or logic.

You never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

Our two statements:

"it won't support high enough speeds for many people"

"Most dont even pay for the highest speed available on the copper"

are not contradictory.

Another lie.

Both can be true.

Another lie.

 

[annily]

annily wrote


That doesnt stop it being a lie, particularly when the lie is spewed
by someone else and you are stupid enough to buy that lie.

Your lack of understanding of the meaning of "lie" is beyond belief.
I wasn't even aware of the claim being spewed by someone else, so I
couldn't have bought it.

Another lie. The evidence to the contrary is the huge numbers who have a viable adsl service.

And what about those who haven't? I didn't say anything about huge numbers.

Wota stunning line in rational argument you have there, child.

Where's the rationality in your arguments?

Dont need to.

YOU ran that stupid claim.

YOU get to substantiate that stupid claim.

THATS how it works.

Nope. You called me a liar. You get to substantiate that claim. That's
how it should work.

You werent 'arguing' a damned thing, just lying.

There you go again. Calling me a liar without backing it up, and
apparently not recognizing what an argument is.

You never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.




Another lie.

Your lack of understanding is amazing. Please explain how those
statements are contradictory. "Many" doesn't mean "most", you know.

Another lie.

Please provide some evidence for that claim.

 

[B J Foster]

You either just don't get it or you're being argumentative and
insulting merely for the sake of it.

Yeah. I don't 'get it'.

Must be because no-one ever prepared a business case for it.

 

[B J Foster]

Again not a lie. Many people DO want more than 24 Mbps. That's all I
said. Your statement ("most...) doesn't contradict mine.

Many eh?

 

[keithr]

Anything that contradicts Mr Speed's opinion is by definition a lie.
Didn't you know that?

 

[Rod Speed]

annily wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Your lack of understanding of the meaning of "lie" is beyond belief.

We'll see...

I wasn't even aware of the claim being spewed by someone else,

Another lie.

so I couldn't have bought it.

Another lie.

And what about those who haven't?

Doesnt qualify as MUCH OF THE COPPER, liar.

I didn't say anything about huge numbers.

You clearly did say MUCH OF THE COPPER, liar.

Where's the rationality in your arguments?

The evidence that huge numbers have a viable adsl service proves that much of the copper is not crap, liar.

Yep.

You called me a liar. You get to substantiate that claim.

You never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

That's how it should work.

Only in your pathetic little pathological liar fantasyland.

There you go again. Calling me a liar without backing it up,

The crap you spewed is the evidence that you are a liar.

and apparently not recognizing what an argument is.

You're so stupid you cant even work out the difference between an argument and a claim.

Your lack of understanding is amazing.

Your pathetic exuse for bullshit and lies is nothing like that, just pathetic.

Please explain how those statements are contradictory.

It would be more profitable to try to explain it to a stone, liar.

"Many" doesn't mean "most", you know.

No one ever said it did, liar.

Please provide some evidence for that claim.

Everyone can see for themselves that its another lie.

 

[Rod Speed]

Anything that contradicts Mr Speed's opinion is by definition a lie.

It isnt my opinion that much of the copper is not crap, its a fact, fool.

 

[annily]

Anything that contradicts Mr Speed's opinion is by definition a lie.
Didn't you know that?

Yes, of course. How silly of me.

 

[annily]

annily wrote


We'll see...


Another lie.

Another unsubstantiated statement.

Another lie.

Another unsubstantiated statement.

Doesnt qualify as MUCH OF THE COPPER, liar.

And of course you snipped my comment where I changed my opinion from
"much of the copper" to "some of the copper", moron.

You clearly did say MUCH OF THE COPPER, liar.

And I changed it later, idiot.

The evidence that huge numbers have a viable adsl service proves that much of the copper is not crap, liar.

And again, you're ignoring my update.

You never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.


Only in your pathetic little pathological liar fantasyland.



The crap you spewed is the evidence that you are a liar.


You're so stupid you cant even work out the difference between an argument and a claim.

No point in trying to argue further with an idiot like you who quotes
selectively.

No point in trying to argue further with an idiot like you who doesn't
understand logic.

Again, No point in trying to argue further with an idiot like you who
doesn't understand logic.

Your pathetic exuse for bullshit and lies is nothing like that, just pathetic.


It would be more profitable to try to explain it to a stone, liar.

You or a stone. Not much difference.

No one ever said it did, liar.

Another idiotic statement.

Everyone can see for themselves that its another lie.

You don't get to speak for everyone. That's how it works.

 

[annily]

Many eh?

Yes. That's my opinion.

 

[Rod Speed]

annily wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Another unsubstantiated statement.

Another lie.

Another unsubstantiated statement.

Another lie.

And of course you snipped my comment

I didnt snip a damned thing, you silly little pathological liar.

where I changed my opinion from "much of the copper" to "some of the copper", moron.

You never ever said anything like that, you silly little pathological liar.

And I changed it later, idiot.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying on that as well, you silly little pathological liar.

And again, you're ignoring my update.

Everyone can see for themselves that there was no update, you silly little pathological liar.

And those who cant get a viable adsl service are almost entirely NOT due to CRAPPY
COPPER, they are just too far from the exchange, you silly little pathological liar.

No point in trying to argue further with an idiot like you who quotes selectively.

EVERYTHING you have said has been quoted in its entirety, you silly little pathological liar.

No point in trying to argue further with an idiot like you who doesn't understand logic.

You never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

Again, No point in trying to argue further with an idiot like you who doesn't understand logic.

Again, you never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

You or a stone. Not much difference.

You never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

Another idiotic statement.

You never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

You don't get to speak for everyone.

Never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like that, you silly little pathological liar.

That's how it works.

Cant even manage its own lines, or anything else at all except lying, either.

 

[Rod Speed]

annily wrote

B J Foster wrote

Yes. That's my opinion.

Pity you dont have a shred of evidence to actually substantiate that opinion.

Higher speeds than that have been available on the cable system for quite
a while now and **** all have actually been stupid enough to sign up for that.

That proves that sweet **** all want those higher speeds, you silly little pathological liar.

 

[annily]

annily wrote


Another lie.



Another lie.



I didnt snip a damned thing, you silly little pathological liar.

Well then, my comments must have accidentally disappeared from your
quoted material, despite the fact that you previously replied twice to
my posts, leaving my updated comment in.

You never ever said anything like that, you silly little pathological liar.



Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying on that as well, you silly little pathological liar.

No, anyone can see that you are lying, by checking a Usenet archive, if
they don't still have our earlier posts on their hard disks, as I have.

Everyone can see for themselves that there was no update, you silly little pathological liar.

Another lie.

And those who cant get a viable adsl service are almost entirely NOT due to CRAPPY
COPPER, they are just too far from the exchange, you silly little pathological liar.



EVERYTHING you have said has been quoted in its entirety, you silly little pathological liar.

Yes, even you quoted it in your earlier posts, then it miraculously
disappeared from your later posts.

You never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.



Again, you never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.



You never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.

You certainly can't.

You never ever could bullshit and lie your way out of a wet paper bag.



Never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like that, you silly little pathological liar.

LOL. So what does you previous statement mean?

 

[Rod Speed]

annily wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Well then, my comments must have accidentally disappeared from your quoted material,

Everyone can see for themselves that none of your comments have
disappeared from the quoted material, you silly little pathological liar.

despite the fact that you previously replied twice to my posts, leaving my updated comment in.

Everyone can see for themselves that there was no updated comment of yours, you silly little pathological liar.

No, anyone can see that you are lying, by checking a Usenet archive,
if they don't still have our earlier posts on their hard disks, as I have.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying, as always, you silly little pathological liar.

Another lie.

Cant even manage its own lines, or anything else at all, either.

Yes, even you quoted it in your earlier posts, then it miraculously disappeared from your later posts.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying, as always.

You certainly can't.

Any 2 year old could leave that for dead, you silly little pathological liar.

LOL.

Village eejut immitations cut no mustard around here, you silly little pathological liar.

So what does you previous statement mean?

Its a statement of fact, you silly little pathological liar.

 

[annily]

annily wrote


Everyone can see for themselves that none of your comments have
disappeared from the quoted material, you silly little pathological liar.

Oh can they? This link provides the evidence to back up my claim:

http://groups.google.com.au/group/a...1cb?hl=en&q=singapore+group:aus.comms&lnk=nl&

Everyone can see for themselves that there was no updated comment of yours, you silly little pathological liar.

The above link proves that there was.

The above link proves that I did.

Wrong again. See the above link

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying, as always, you silly little pathological liar.

And again. See the above link.

See the above link.

Cant even manage its own lines, or anything else at all, either.



Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying, as always.



Any 2 year old could leave that for dead, you silly little pathological liar.



Village eejut immitations cut no mustard around here, you silly little pathological liar.


Its a statement of fact, you silly little pathological liar.

Prove it. Have you asked everyone, to substantiate that claim?

 

[Rod Speed]

kreed wrote

The download (and some times even uploads are included in the quota)
limits and the steep rise in prices per GB to get more reasonable limts
make a lot of the higher speed plans a joke in GB / $ value.

You can get pretty decent GB/$ value if you want it, you just cant get the higher speeds as well.

You end up with an analogy like this

You can have the choice of the use of a used Commodore that
you can drive as much and as fast (within legal limits) as you like
You can have the choice of the use of a Ferrari with a limit of
100km distance a month after which its 40km/ hr speed limited.

That analogy falls down badly with the ADSL2+ which has very decent download limits like with say TPG etc.

You dont even pay all that much per month for that.

You dont however get speeds better than 24Mbs that route.

Thats a lot better than a used Commodore.

Unless you only drive to the shops once a week, (and maybe
to church on Sunday) and never aspire to going any further
afield than you are going to go with the Commodore deal.

The higher volume TPG plans are a lot better than that.

This is my view on the broadband situation in this country.

Its a pretty distorted view. The TPG ADSL2+ plans are nothing like
a drive to the shops once a week and maybe to church on sunday.

Finally, dumping the huge $ amounts quoted into this NBN plan can only
make this situation worse, and drive costs higher and value for money lower.

Depends on how its paid for. If part of what was obtained by flogging
off Telstra was used to pay for it, it would be perfectly possible to
charge say $50/month total and provide say a 180GB limit per month.

Corse its very arguable that that is the best use of $50B instead of say hospitals etc.

If Telstra is involved except as one of many competitive
players on an even field - you can guarantee it.

No you cant, particularly if the NBN was paid for using part of what was obtained by flogging off Telstra.

Corse its all up in the air now if the coalition jumps into bed with the independants and dumps the NBN.

 

[Rod Speed]

kreed wrote

Depends on whether people actually need that

Corse they dont, they can always drive to the rental operation.

Or realise that there is no point in getting what will take an hour or more to watch
in seconds, you might as well just start watching it while its still downloading instead.

compared to the huge cost involved to the nation that
will probably take forever to pay back with interest.
(and ultimately paid by everyone via higher taxes / massive access
fees / reduced gov. services in other areas or a bit of both.).

That wouldnt be the case if part of what was obtained by flogging off Telstra was used to build it.

No need to download DVD video any faster than you can watch it.
Correct.

They probably will use crap "streaming" methods anyway.

It wont be crap and they already dont.

You couldn't even save the data size (4.3GB) of a typical
DVD to a hard drive in less than a few minutes regardless.
Correct.

I don't know how long it would even take to buffer it to RAM
on a typical home PC - assuming you had enough spare.

The short story is that there isnt any need for 1Gb for that.

The 8Mb that ADSL1 can do is fine to0, even 1.5Mb
is fine for downloading and watching simultaneously
tho not for blueray content.

Does it really make any sense to be spending anything like
$50B just to avoid driving to the rental operation for bluerays ?

True, but the cost would be massive for existing customers if they didn't need it.

That wouldnt be the case if part of what was obtained by flogging off Telstra was used to build it.

For new installations and developments - I think
that then it is practical to go with fibre from the start.

It isnt really with so much development happening in the existing suburbs with
individual houses being demolished and replaced with blocks of units etc.

Existing copper services can be upgraded as maintenance
and renewal / replacement of unserviceable existing architecture
/ when there is sufficient demand in the area in question.

It isnt really practical compared with replacing the copper with fibre suburb by suburb etc.

Corse doing that costs an immense amount of money and
its very arguable indeed if that makes any sense at all
compared with say spending that money on hospitals etc.

Satellite ?

You dont get anything like the thruput that way.

Or if there isn't an existing connection - use fibre.

Its never going to be economic to do long runs of fibre to individual propertys etc.

At the end of the day, we don't have a choice.

Corse we have a choice, most obviously with spending
part of what was obtained by flogging off Telstra.

We will simply be stuck with the bill once more while ignorant/corrupted public
servants make a typically poor decision on our behalf and at our expense.

Its not public servants that get to decide a damned thing, it was some stupid
politician called Rudd that was stupid enough to go the NBN route when he
discovered that he couldnt monster Telstra into building the FTTN system.

Same with the carbon pollution bullshit

That hasnt got a damned thing to do with public servants either.

And now that Labor has got the bums rush at the ballot box, we wont be seeing any tax on carbon, you watch.