Running Copper Clad Kapton Through Laser Printer

[me]

I have seen them. A generic HPGL driver should do. What interface
though, GPIB is getting rare now.

It uses a serial interface.

 

[James Arthur]

Then steel wool roughen the Kapton side instead.

My mistake--I quoted the wrong message. The purpose of roughening
the copper is to improve toner adhesion during \ after fusion. I
don`t expect feeding will be a problem.

James

 

[James Arthur]

The fuser roll is hot enough to get a sheet of paper up to
toner melting temperature, but not hot enough to get this
stack that hot. I suggest you try with the copper preheated
a bit. You don't want it hot enough to melt the toner on to
the photo sensitive drum, but just warm. A few degrees can
make a big difference. Toner has a pretty sharp melting
temperature.

Or, he could 1) raise the fuser`s temperature, or 2) reduce the
fuser`s feed rate, or 3) print, then feed the material through a
laminator set on its "foil" setting. All these things have been done
in pursuit of better toner transfer.

Some guys on the Yahoo group use hairdryers to "reflow" the toner
prior to etch.

I measured some toner melting points. The original HP toner in my
LaserJet 6L melted (flowed well enough to be smeared with a hot iron)
somewhere between 99 deg. C and 106 deg. C, and toner I used in a
refill cartridge melted between 98 and 101 deg. C.

Interesting project, D from BC.

James Arthur

 

[jasen]

Foil printer??? I gotta Google that..
Is that what's printing on beer cans??

gold lettering on business cards etc,,, I think it's some variation on
thermal wax,

the artwork on cans cans is screen, or offset printted,
the use-by dates (and internal writing)
done with electrostatic ink droplet printers

if the foil is conductive it could be useful...

 

[DJ Delorie]

Some guys on the Yahoo group use hairdryers to "reflow" the toner
prior to etch.

Perhaps you're thinking of a heat gun? Hair dryers only get to about
120F, way to low to melt toner. Heat guns get up to 1000F.

 

[D from BC]

On 3 Feb 2007 19:55:01 -0800, "James Arthur"

I measured some toner melting points. The original HP toner in my
LaserJet 6L melted (flowed well enough to be smeared with a hot iron)
somewhere between 99 deg. C and 106 deg. C, and toner I used in a
refill cartridge melted between 98 and 101 deg. C.

Interesting project, D from BC.

James Arthur

Thanks for the temperatures..
I didn't know laser toner melted near H20 boiling point.
D from BC

 

[James Arthur]

Perhaps you're thinking of a heat gun? Hair dryers only get to about
120F, way to low to melt toner. Heat guns get up to 1000F.

Yes, the man said hair dryer http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/message/17482,
but you're right, his must be hotter than mine. I just measured mine
and get about 65 deg. C several inches away, and, up close, a mix of
temperatures close to 75 deg. C, none exceeding 99 deg. C.

Here's another pair of data points relating to toner melting: There
are decorative, iron-on metallic-film transfers used to dress up laser-
printed stuff. You apply the film, iron, and the metallic coating
fuses to the toner. I measured the minimum transfer temperatures for
1) the HP 6p with original toner and 2) a Samsung with a refilled
cartridge as 110 +/- 3 deg C, and 81 +/- 3 deg C, respectively.

I hate to mention it, but we're kinda of-topic for SED. This
conversation, though interesting, hasn't much to do with design, nor
politics!

Best,
James Arthur

 

[D from BC]

Success!!!

This photo is after chemical wash and etching.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/chainsaw/SED/P1010019.JPG

It's a 6 step process..

I haven't cleaned the residue off the copper yet.. It gets cleaned
just before soldering.

The "D from BC" font has 4 mil line width!!! It's only dirty from the
residue and there's no breaks in the copper.
However, there's defects at the bottom of the PCB.

Apologies for lack of electronics design in this post...
Often I can handle the electronics. It's everything else that I get
stuck on.
D from BC

 

[joseph2k]

Success!!!

This photo is after chemical wash and etching.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/chainsaw/SED/P1010019.JPG

It's a 6 step process..

I haven't cleaned the residue off the copper yet.. It gets cleaned
just before soldering.

The "D from BC" font has 4 mil line width!!! It's only dirty from the
residue and there's no breaks in the copper.
However, there's defects at the bottom of the PCB.

Apologies for lack of electronics design in this post...
Often I can handle the electronics. It's everything else that I get
stuck on.
D from BC

That looks pretty good. You should refine the process some more, great
looking boards are the target. It should be within reach.

 

[D from BC]

That looks pretty good. You should refine the process some more, great
looking boards are the target. It should be within reach.

I know... I'm very surprised.
It's better than the toner transfer methods I know.
The only DIY method I know of that can compete with this quality uses
positive presensitized PCB's.

I assembled this PCB and tested.. The only thing wrong was my layout
mistakes. Which is great!
I get to tweek the chemistry and make another board..

I still haven't tried laser printing on bare copper clad kapton..
I coat the copper to:
1) protect drum
2) provide thermal resistance for toner fusing
3) provide chargeable surface to help attract toner off the drum
4) I've heard bare copper doesn't work
D from BC