Re: What's that black dust in monitors?

[Rod Speed]

message Rod Speed [email protected] wrote

That is also where the most field is. DOH!

Nope, not on the inside surface of the case it aint.

Follow the HV pathways, and generating element, and one will
find where the most proliferant accumulations of particulate are.

Using fancy words doesnt explain why you dont get a lot
more on the FBT itself than on the inside surface of the case.

They don't come *from* the flyback, they collect
around it, and other of the HV elements in the system.

Pity the inside surface of the case doesnt qualify.

 

[Rod Speed]

Yes. It is the tars that have accumulated on the dust that
has accumulated on the charged surfaces inside the monitor.

You get it right thru PCs too, basically because the fans move
it thru the PC. In other words they dont need to be charged.

A smoker actually reduces his CRT lifespan in his home for
this reason. It blankets things such that they don't dissipate
their generated heat as well, leading to pre-mature failure.

Dont buy that either. No evidence that PCs used by smokers
fail prematurely. The only exception to that is that the optical
drives can end up with an invisible film on the laser with
smokers and what appears to be a faulty drive will in fact
work fine if you clean the lens with isopropyl alcohol etc.

 

[Bob the builder]

Yes, and just like clean dry dust, it is a non conductive,
dielectric even material that will be attracted to any surface that
does not have a net zero charge.

Non conductive? Bullshit, considering the main ingredient is Iron oxide, the
only non conductive toner is the 100% efficient transfer stuff found in some
laser printers. Some copiers have a separate supply of microscopic diamond
shaped iron particles known as Developer, obviously the toner in these
machines contains no iron oxide but it still gets into the air.

 

[Russ]

Nope, not on the inside surface of the case it aint.


Using fancy words doesnt explain why you dont get a lot
more on the FBT itself than on the inside surface of the case.

I don't know about fancy, but "proliferant" isn't a word.

Russ.

 

[Rod Speed]

I don't know about fancy, but "proliferant" isn't a word.

True. Usual problem with those that attempt big words.

 

[Mark Harriss]

Non conductive? Bullshit, considering the main ingredient is Iron oxide,

Hate to disillusion you Bob, but iron oxide is magnetic and non conductive.
Toner has to be non conductive to be electrostatically attracted to the
charged drum and then onto the paper.Canon is the main user of magnetic
toner, almost everone else uses dev and toner combinations.

 

[DarkMatter]

Nope, not on the inside surface of the case it aint.

if said case surface is in proximity to a strong radiating field, it
is influenced and becomes an attractor for particulate, so yes... it
is also a candidate for accumulation.

 

[DarkMatter]

Then, your lame ass said:

Using fancy words doesnt explain why you dont get a lot
more on the FBT itself than on the inside surface of the case.

I'm sorry if you consider those words to be "fancy", dipshit.

For the rest of us, they are quite definitive of the meaning(s) they
convey.

 

[DarkMatter]

You get it right thru PCs too, basically because the fans move
it thru the PC. In other words they dont need to be charged.

Most monitors are non forced air cooled devices. That is the topic.

Most PCs are forced air devices, and that is an entirely different
subject.

Particulate carried by forced air IMPACTS on surfaces. If said
surfaces have moisture, and or tars from cigarettes on them, then
particulate is going to stick.

 

[DarkMatter]

Dont buy that either. No evidence that PCs used by smokers
fail prematurely. The only exception to that is that the optical
drives can end up with an invisible film on the laser with
smokers and what appears to be a faulty drive will in fact
work fine if you clean the lens with isopropyl alcohol etc.

You're an idiot. That has been established. Proven again here by
virtue of the fact that you actually believe that a coated surface
dissipates heat as fast as an uncoated surface. You are an idiot.

 

[DarkMatter]

True. Usual problem with those that attempt big words.

You're an idiot.

 

[Rod Speed]

Most monitors are non forced air cooled devices.
Duh.

That is the topic.

Wrong. As always. The topic is what is the black dust in monitors.

Most PCs are forced air devices,
Duh.

and that is an entirely different subject.

Nope, not when they dont have that black stuff in them,
but do have what gets in them from smokers which is
completely different to what's being discussed in monitors.

That black stuff in monitors clearly cant be from smoking.
Its a different color and stinks. The black stuff doesnt.

Particulate carried by forced air IMPACTS on surfaces.

Irrelevant to what the black stuff in monitor is due to.

If said surfaces have moisture, and or tars from
cigarettes on them, then particulate is going to stick.

Dust ends up in PC regardless of moisture and or
tars and is anything like the color of the black stuff in
monitors. So it cant be just dust as some have claimed.

 

[Rod Speed]

Some entirely appropriately named pathetic excuse
for a bullshit artist desperately cowering behind

You're an idiot. That has been established.

Even you should be able to bullshit your way out of
your predicament better than that pathetic effort, child.

Proven again here by virtue of the fact that you actually believe that
a coated surface dissipates heat as fast as an uncoated surface.

Never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like that.

PCs dont generally rely on heat passive
heat dissipation much, so the effect of smoke
or just dust isnt what causes them to fail.

You are an idiot.

You are a fuckwit.

 

[Don Klipstein]

Correct, and you dont get that soot with those.

Its gotta be coming from the FBT, because
its always on the case adjacent to that.

Cant be cooked skin either, but that area where
the you get the soot in a monitor isnt usually
where there is all that much airflow thru the case.

The source has to be the epoxy on the FBT.

I have seen the "sooty" black dust with that "TV-electrical odor" in
fluorescent fixtures in a restaurant. My hypothesis is oxidized and maybe
dark-dirt-coated particles of grease/vegetable-oil/etc., maybe oxidized.
Maybe smoke particles of some kind, which are sometimes greasy/tarry in
nature.
And these sootier appearing particles seem to be attracted to TVs and
some fluorescent fixtures, as opposed to other forms of dust not being so
attracted to high voltage electric things.
I have known black dust to accumulate on TV screen surfaces sometimes,
and larger quantities of this dust when wiped with a paper towel often
have the "black-dust-from-the-inside-of-a-TV" odor.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Rod Speed]

** That is what I stated:

" ** IME it can be one or more of the following:

1. Residue of cigarette smoke collected by the EHT wiring.
2. Photocopier toner dust similarly collected - if a copier is nearby.
3. House dust collected and carbonised by the huge voltage gradients
around the EHT wiring.
Horrible stuff in all cases.

............ Phil "





** Yes it is.

The voltage HT carbonises it, turning it into soot.

Have fun explaining why you dont get that
on the HT lead from the FBT to the tube.

Or with Tesla coils either.

Game, set and match.

 

[Rod Speed]

As others have stated, it is airborne particulate
matter from various sources that accumulates.,

Pity that stuff isnt jet black.

it is not *always* burnt stuff.,

Nothing to 'burn' it in a monitor.

it is not *always* toner dust., it *is*
general dust from lots of different places

Yes, you certainly get quite a bit of dust inside any
thing that has significant aiflow thru it, whether that
is fan assisted or just has convection cooling.

BUT IS ISNT JET BLACK, its just dust colored.

and there is not just *one* mechanism
responsible for forming that black crud.

You only see that jet black crud in a monitor adjacent to the FBT.

 

[Rod Speed]

No one claimed it was simply dust.

Obvious lie. Harry did just that.

Pity it aint black in that situation, most obviously
with what certainly ends up on the front glass
surface of the tube and in those ESD air 'purifiers'

It is soot

Soorree, nothing to burn it inside a monitor.

the residue of burnt air borne particles.

Soorree, nothing to burn it inside a monitor.

And you dont get that black soot inside an electrical
heater where there is something to burn the dust.

 

[Don Klipstein]

Most monitors are non forced air cooled devices. That is the topic.

Most PCs are forced air devices, and that is an entirely different
subject.

Particulate carried by forced air IMPACTS on surfaces. If said
surfaces have moisture, and or tars from cigarettes on them, then
particulate is going to stick.

Natural/unforced convection will also make sticky particles stick onto
surfaces. Less than with forced air, but it does happen!

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Don Klipstein]

Doesnt explain why its black soot.

You certainly get the effect you are talking about on the front
face glass of the monitor and TVs, but its just dust colored.

Not that I want to be caught agreeing with DarkMatter on anything, but I
have both seen and heard of enough black dust on TV/monitor faces. Even
dust with the odor of that accumulating in the flyback transformer area.
My hypothesis is greasy/stick/tarry particles, maybe with a thin coating
of soot or other fine carbon particles.

And conductive particles can have a net charge as well as nonconductive
ones.
My suspicion is that some sort of black dust particle, probably mostly
made of some sort of grease or tar, has a tendency to be charged one way
or another and be attracted to TVs, monitors, etc.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Phil Allison]

Have fun explaining why you dont get that
on the HT lead from the FBT to the tube.

** No need to explain the Robot's false assertion.

Or with Tesla coils either.

** Not even faintly similar situation.




........... Phil