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Re: UK RICS report says solar takes 208 years to repay...nonsense! Help needed!

E

Eeyore

Jim said:
It was mostly Dariel, Tyniquiaia, Tyrone Shoelaces, and his cousin
Tyrone....
If you'd ever been to NOLA
Nope.

you'd know exactly what I mean.

You'd have to help me there. I think I get only a part of it.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

I should have said handguns here.

Coyotes, rabbits, and squirrels are =people=?

No coyotes here but the recommended device for eradication of vermin is a
shotgun and unlike handguns these are NOT banned in the UK.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Jim said:
Just wait til you see how many criminals have them; you blokes will
legalize possession by decent citizens in a second flat.

The 1997 amendment to the law concerning firearms making them more heavily
controlled was the result of public pressure.

The public in the UK have never expressed a desire for widespread gun ownership,
quite the reverse. Not least, we can see what it did to the USA where 'casual
violence' seems to be routine.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Jim said:
I have a lovely yard sloping to a creek, with a high bluff on the other
side. Makes an ideal target range; I prefer old Coke cans.

Such a property is a rare thing here. Let off a gun here and you're likely to
kill someone by accident.

My children are learning how to use a weapon, because a time is coming when
they will need
to know how.

God help you.

Graham carries on about "civilised" people; Western nations are
admitting uncivilised people at a frenetic pace.

Something may need to be done about that.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Jim said:
What happens if the bad guys start shooting before the "special units"
arrive? WTF????

Even our 'bad guys' don't like shooting if they can at all avoid it.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Andy said:
Eeyore said:

Except that last week almost all of them were working in factories,
offices and shops and in 3 weeks time they will be replaced by a
different set.

How can you be sure that there isn't a wrongun among them?

You can't be SURE. But they are SWISS. They really are quite different to you and me.
Even mildly anti-social behaviour isn't common there.

Graham
 
M

Morris Dovey

Eeyore wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:

|| It's a good brag. May you always feel so safe.
|
| Thank you. Let's say, being murdered in my bed isn't even the last
| thing on my mind as I go to sleep, the idea simply never even
| enters my head at all. In this small city of around 70,000 we get a
| murder maybe once every five years or so. The last instance
| involved drug crime and it's easy to stay out of those circles.

You're welcome. Being murdered in my bed isn't something I worry
about, but I can't claim that the idea has never entered my head at
all. I live in the outskirts of a city of ~350,000 where there are
many times more non-firearm murders than that every year. Nearly of
the murders are either arise from domestic disputes or are
drug-related. I don't have exact statistics, but read the all too
frequent reports in the newspapers.

It might help to remember that Americans aren't simply Brits who've
forgotten how to spell. You and I see the world through different
eyes, and although we can carry on a conversation and agree about
nearly everything that a pair of Brits or a pair of Americans might
agree on, our ability to survive and thrive in our personal worlds
depends on our abilities to automatically react to events in different
contexts.

However difficult it might be for you to appreciate, the American
fixation on lethal defense (and you're mistaken if you believe it's
limited to firearms) has a solid basis in the American context. It
doesn't matter that anyone might find that irrational or uncivilized -
it's real. To reach back and borrow from British naval tradition:
We're prepared to repel all boarders. That there may (note the implied
uncertainty) no longer be a need such defense is moot - the
preparedness has become part of our fiber.
 
A

Andy Hall

It doesn't bring those people back to life. And the IRA was at that time a
criminal organisation according to UK law.

Graham

Of course. The UK establishment thought the same about David ben
Gurion and in a somwhat different way about Mahatma Gandhi. Times,
perceptions and circumstances change.

One has to realise that in more cultures than not, the end justifies
the means and life is cheap.

Given that complete spectrum, the means by which killing an injury
happen is irrelevant.
 
S

Steve Firth

Eeyore said:
What's wrong with a club keeping the gun ?

Nothing, but that has nothing to do with personal ownership. I keep
valuables at the bank, it doesn't mean those valuables belong to the
bank.

Instead of emoting, why don't you try (a) thinking and (b) applying some
thought to what you write?
 
S

Steve Firth

Eeyore said:
You've UTTERLY lost it.

Still with the capitals.
I used to know a couple of SO19 officers (now CO19 of the Metropolitan
Police (London) special firearms unit for the benefit of non-Brits) and
they're regularly on training courses.

Did anyone say they were not trained?
http://www.met.police.uk/co19/
http://www.met.police.uk/co19/training.htm

Initial Firearms Course ........... The course is of two weeks duration

ARV Course
After being selected for becoming a member of the Armed Response Vehicles,
the successful Officer will undertake a Basic Firearms Course, if not
already an AFO, a one-week H & K MP5 Carbine course and then an intensive
three-week ARV course. Having passed the course Officers are then posted
to an ARV relief and attend training for three days every six weeks.

So, to get to be an ARV officer requires at least SIX weeks specialist
training plus regular training thereafter.

Six weeks eh?

Now returning to the point, in what way is this training superior to the
training given to the equivalent teams in the USA?

BTW, fix your bloody line length.
 
S

Steve Firth

Eeyore said:
On what basis would you void the numbers killed by the IRA ?

On the basis that they have given up killing people, but not in response
to any change in legislation. Remove IRA deaths from the 1997 and 2003
figures and compare them.
 
S

Steve Firth

Eeyore said:
You appear to be determined not to listen to what I'm saying. I have never
had any objection to the use of any type of gun in sport.

You appear to ahve difficulty thinking about what you say. You say you
are not banning sport, but you support the legislation that bans the
sport.
 
E

Eeyore

Arnold said:
Yes ,points out that they are not unique for starts.

Rubbish. I never said there weren't other way to kill people. Like bombs. Hardly a
typical choice however.

Re-interpreting my words to suit your agenda is very shallow of you. Where's the debate
in that ?

Graham
 
S

Steve Firth

Dave Plowman (News) said:
Of course these horrible events happen. But the point is would this *not*
have happened if all those who were murdered owned guns? They'd have had
to keep them about their person night and day - and not sleep in case that
madman waited till late to perpetrate his crime. I'd also ponder how many
accidental deaths there would be if everyone carried guns with them. I'd
hazard a guess at far more than there are murders.

Ah yes, well there were are onto a different tack and the answer to that
is mostly "it depends". I've lived in countries where guns are permitted
and those where they are banned. The USA appears to be a real exceptiion
in terms of culture. People blast away at each other there without
thinkign much about what they are up to and also they tend to be fairly
careless.

Switzerland permits citizens to own guns of types that would see them
run into prison fairly rapidly here and they don't run amok and kill
each other in hundreds. In some countries it's a legal right to own
assault rifles and in general although those countries have problems,
the accident rate doesn't seem to be terrible, or possibly it just
shrinks into insignificance compared to their other problems. My
relatives serving in Iraq had great trouble understanding that all
households are permitted to own a number of self-loading weapons, for
example. Yet my recollectionf o Iraqi's before the present mess is that
in general they are respectful and larely westernised and don't go
around "popping caps" in the "ass" of anyone they disagree with.
 
S

Steve Firth

Eeyore said:
No coyotes here but the recommended device for eradication of vermin is a
shotgun and unlike handguns these are NOT banned in the UK.

A .22 is better for rabbits and foxes and you'll have a heap of trouble
trying to get one. Shotguns are really only OK close up, and for vermin
a pump action would be better than a the twin bore shotguns permitted by
law.

I know you won't see the point, but the UK government doesn't restrict
guns out of fear for the safety of its citizens. They do so because they
fear for the safety of their own backsides.
 
E

Eeyore

Morris said:
Eeyore wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:

|| It's a good brag. May you always feel so safe.
|
| Thank you. Let's say, being murdered in my bed isn't even the last
| thing on my mind as I go to sleep, the idea simply never even
| enters my head at all. In this small city of around 70,000 we get a
| murder maybe once every five years or so. The last instance
| involved drug crime and it's easy to stay out of those circles.

You're welcome. Being murdered in my bed isn't something I worry
about, but I can't claim that the idea has never entered my head at
all. I live in the outskirts of a city of ~350,000 where there are
many times more non-firearm murders than that every year. Nearly of
the murders are either arise from domestic disputes or are
drug-related. I don't have exact statistics, but read the all too
frequent reports in the newspapers.

I'm sure and in a 'domestic' I dare say it's easy to use that firearm in a
'moment of madness'. NO firearm, probably no murder.

It might help to remember that Americans aren't simply Brits who've
forgotten how to spell. You and I see the world through different
eyes, and although we can carry on a conversation and agree about
nearly everything that a pair of Brits or a pair of Americans might
agree on, our ability to survive and thrive in our personal worlds
depends on our abilities to automatically react to events in different
contexts.

Oh yes, I've been increasingly aware of the differences, largely through
conversations such as this one on usenet in fact.

However difficult it might be for you to appreciate, the American
fixation on lethal defense (and you're mistaken if you believe it's
limited to firearms) has a solid basis in the American context. It
doesn't matter that anyone might find that irrational or uncivilized -
it's real. To reach back and borrow from British naval tradition:
We're prepared to repel all boarders. That there may (note the implied
uncertainty) no longer be a need such defense is moot - the
preparedness has become part of our fiber.

I've always also kind of imagined it dates back to 'frontier spirit' and fending
off wild animals, injuns and so on. It just seems sad it's not possible to move
in.

I'm additionally forever perplexed that Americans seem keen to encourage wider
ownership of guns in other countries in this bizarre belief that we'll be
somehow 'safer' in spite of what all the evidence says.

The US gun death rate is FORTY times that in the UK btw.

Graham
 
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