Re: Measuring output impedance in LTSpice

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Well, shazam! It sure worked. Beats me why because the folks at the news
server said it wouldn't. And in the past it hadn't. Probably the Hobbs
coefficient was too low on all the others
Try posting one before you start the party. Some servers will carry
messages with attachments, but not let you post them.

Ok, here is that test, a laser pump diode pulser. Nothing confidential,
it was my contribution to a discussion in a European NG.

Well, what can I say, it worked.
[snip]

Nope. Your .asc file appeared in the body, not properly attached.

You would be better off if you used tools that adhere to the
standards.

Or could it be your tools that don't behave?

On Thunderbird it does show as inline plus as an attached file. To make
sure, I then downloaded it into a temp directory (not the one from where
I attached it) and opened it in LTSpice. Woiks. Then I did same with the
netbook which never had that file. Woiks.
Did you try launching from the message?

I think Agent IS the standard.

Obviously not a very good one. Klaus Butzmann in the German NG read my
attachment just fine, as a file.

Oh, well. Arguing with you is like arguing with a stump. You have
all the trouble, yet claim you're always right. You should join
Larkin's organization... you'd fit right in

One guy did, he just said so. It's midnight over there so there won't be
many answering in the next few hours.

Was anyone else able to launch from the message?

Hobbs' posting launched from within the message.

"One" guy using your same tool can read it ? Did he launch into
LTspice FROM the message? Hobbs' post worked, your's didn't.

Right now my Thunderbird wants to open it into the PDF reader for some
reason. Haven't figured that out yet but not so important. I will have
to find out how to add the *.asc file type in there because right now it
won't let me. I can launch it by hand though, works fine. Even if you
say it shouldn't because it doesn't over there in Phoenix

BTW, Phil's attachment and mine behave in exactly the same way on this
here computation machine, as attachments.

Whatever you think you did... "inline" is NOT an attachment in most
people's world.

As I said before, it shows inline _and_ as an attachment. I have set my
software that way because it's also my email program. That way I can
quickly see scope shots from my clients right inside the emails and also
as attachments for file storage.

Tell me, if it was only inline as you claim, how could it be that if I
click on this attachment and save it as a file it saves correctly? Do
you really think a li'l gnome is built into Thunderbird that
automagically detects which lines are SPICE and which ones are not?
Would it automatically remove lines that have the words merlot, barbecue
or global warming in there?

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Well, shazam! It sure worked. Beats me why because the folks at the news
server said it wouldn't. And in the past it hadn't. Probably the Hobbs
coefficient was too low on all the others
Try posting one before you start the party. Some servers will carry
messages with attachments, but not let you post them.

Ok, here is that test, a laser pump diode pulser. Nothing confidential,
it was my contribution to a discussion in a European NG.

Well, what can I say, it worked.
[snip]

Nope. Your .asc file appeared in the body, not properly attached.

You would be better off if you used tools that adhere to the
standards.

Or could it be your tools that don't behave?

On Thunderbird it does show as inline plus as an attached file. To make
sure, I then downloaded it into a temp directory (not the one from where
I attached it) and opened it in LTSpice. Woiks. Then I did same with the
netbook which never had that file. Woiks.
Did you try launching from the message?

I think Agent IS the standard.

Obviously not a very good one. Klaus Butzmann in the German NG read my
attachment just fine, as a file.


Oh, well. Arguing with you is like arguing with a stump. You have
all the trouble, yet claim you're always right. You should join
Larkin's organization... you'd fit right in

One guy did, he just said so. It's midnight over there so there won't be
many answering in the next few hours.


Was anyone else able to launch from the message?

Hobbs' posting launched from within the message.

"One" guy using your same tool can read it ? Did he launch into
LTspice FROM the message? Hobbs' post worked, your's didn't.

Right now my Thunderbird wants to open it into the PDF reader for some
reason. Haven't figured that out yet but not so important.

Sure, it's important. You didn't "attach" in the functional sense of
the word.

What is the functional sense of the word? To me an attachment is an
attachment is an attachment. IOW a file stuck to a message, and that's
how it shows up.

Wonderful ;-) Did it launch into LTspice? No? Hobbs' did, and
that's the whole point, view in LTspice without intermediary steps.

I asked the German engineer, in his Thunderbird he can set file
associations so the desired program launches. Turns out the config menus
on his TB are totally different, he has a file association table just
like Windows does. My TB doesn't.

Right click and saving ain't the same as "launch".

It is. You only need to set the file associations right. And somehow my
Thunderbird can't while the German one can. Guess I may have to upgrade.

There's a little "gnome" built into Agent that knows how to launch a
schematic with its parent application.

Same in Thunderbird. Except the configuration in mine is a bit recalcitrant.

Cheap is as cheap does ;-)

Eudora is an E-mail client.

Agent is a newsreader client.

Thunderbird is a hack ;-)

Nope. It's a rather fine piece of software. I prefer to have the same
program for news and email.

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:

[...]

Nope. It's a rather fine piece of software. I prefer to have the same
program for news and email.

When _you_ can "launch" an attachment from within Thunderbird, come
back and tell me about it. Until then... don't tell me about "someone
else" being successful

Might be a while. I am in the middle of two major projects so I can't
possibly upgrade Thunderbird right not (the German enineer's version is
newer). Fact is, I no longer need to copy and paste and that's what this
exercise was about. I can take the attached file "as is" and launch it
in LTSpice, done it with Phil's as well as mine. Worked. Sorry, can't
help it if Agent can't.

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote: [...]
Cheap is as cheap does ;-)

Eudora is an E-mail client.

Agent is a newsreader client.

Thunderbird is a hack ;-)

Nope. It's a rather fine piece of software. I prefer to have the same
program for news and email.
When _you_ can "launch" an attachment from within Thunderbird, come
back and tell me about it. Until then... don't tell me about "someone
else" being successful

Might be a while. I am in the middle of two major projects so I can't
possibly upgrade Thunderbird right not (the German enineer's version is
newer). Fact is, I no longer need to copy and paste and that's what this
exercise was about. I can take the attached file "as is" and launch it
in LTSpice, done it with Phil's as well as mine. Worked. Sorry, can't
help it if Agent can't.

You didn't launch it from _within_ your reader.

Ok, tried it on the Samsung netbook which has a (only slightly) newer TB
version. It does launch straight into LTSpice. At the first instance it
needed to be told which program to pick, and from then on it "knew".
Happy now?

Agent does that just fine.

But didn't you say Agent did not recognize my attachment? Then it did
not do fine.

I'm sorry you don't understand, but I give up.

There's nothing to understand other than that the attachment does come
through as an attachment. And it did.

 

[Joerg]

Jim Thompson wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
[...]
Cheap is as cheap does ;-)

Eudora is an E-mail client.

Agent is a newsreader client.

Thunderbird is a hack ;-)

Nope. It's a rather fine piece of software. I prefer to have the same
program for news and email.
When _you_ can "launch" an attachment from within Thunderbird, come
back and tell me about it. Until then... don't tell me about "someone
else" being successful

Might be a while. I am in the middle of two major projects so I can't
possibly upgrade Thunderbird right not (the German enineer's version is
newer). Fact is, I no longer need to copy and paste and that's what this
exercise was about. I can take the attached file "as is" and launch it
in LTSpice, done it with Phil's as well as mine. Worked. Sorry, can't
help it if Agent can't.
You didn't launch it from _within_ your reader.

Ok, tried it on the Samsung netbook which has a (only slightly) newer TB
version. It does launch straight into LTSpice. At the first instance it
needed to be told which program to pick, and from then on it "knew".
Happy now?

Agent does that just fine.

But didn't you say Agent did not recognize my attachment? Then it did
not do fine.

I'm sorry you don't understand, but I give up.

There's nothing to understand other than that the attachment does come
through as an attachment. And it did.

It didn't show as an attachment here... just contained in the body.

Try it again from your newer machine.

The Samsung _is_ newer and there it worked.

 

[Grant]

Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Well, shazam! It sure worked. Beats me why because the folks at the news
server said it wouldn't. And in the past it hadn't. Probably the Hobbs
coefficient was too low on all the others
Try posting one before you start the party. Some servers will carry
messages with attachments, but not let you post them.

Ok, here is that test, a laser pump diode pulser. Nothing confidential,
it was my contribution to a discussion in a European NG.

Well, what can I say, it worked.

[snip]

Nope. Your .asc file appeared in the body, not properly attached.

You would be better off if you used tools that adhere to the
standards.

Or could it be your tools that don't behave?

On Thunderbird it does show as inline plus as an attached file. To make
sure, I then downloaded it into a temp directory (not the one from where
I attached it) and opened it in LTSpice. Woiks. Then I did same with the
netbook which never had that file. Woiks.

Did you try launching from the message?

I think Agent IS the standard.

No, Agent's been around for a long time, that's all

Oh, well. Arguing with you is like arguing with a stump. You have
all the trouble, yet claim you're always right. You should join
Larkin's organization... you'd fit right in

Was anyone else able to launch from the message?

Yup, in the spirit of the sender, the inline 'attachment' worked fine!

Agent correctly showed the demarcation, but since there was no filename
given, agent can't save it. That's how inline text attachments work, and
they're preferred in some places.

Hobbs' posting launched from within the message.

His was really truly and attachment, with a filename.

But you're being touch too sensitive or pedantic going on about trying
to avoid a simple copy/paste/rename operation to recreate a text file.

Grant.

 

[John Devereux]

Ok, here is that test, a laser pump diode pulser. Nothing confidential,
it was my contribution to a discussion in a European NG.

FWIW it seems to be a distinct "inline" section. In GNUS it initially
shows as normal inline text, but I can save it as a distinct attachment
which I can then drag-and-drop fine into LTSpice. It does save a few
steps over the copy-paste method, I prefer it as long as we don't hear
reports of these not getting through news servers.

 

[John Devereux]

Jim Thompson wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Well, shazam! It sure worked. Beats me why because the folks at the news
server said it wouldn't. And in the past it hadn't. Probably the Hobbs
coefficient was too low on all the others
Try posting one before you start the party. Some servers will carry
messages with attachments, but not let you post them.

Ok, here is that test, a laser pump diode pulser. Nothing confidential,
it was my contribution to a discussion in a European NG.

Well, what can I say, it worked.

[snip]

Nope. Your .asc file appeared in the body, not properly attached.

You would be better off if you used tools that adhere to the
standards.


Or could it be your tools that don't behave?

On Thunderbird it does show as inline plus as an attached file. To make
sure, I then downloaded it into a temp directory (not the one from where
I attached it) and opened it in LTSpice. Woiks. Then I did same with the
netbook which never had that file. Woiks.

Did you try launching from the message?

I think Agent IS the standard.

No, Agent's been around for a long time, that's all

Oh, well. Arguing with you is like arguing with a stump. You have
all the trouble, yet claim you're always right. You should join
Larkin's organization... you'd fit right in

Was anyone else able to launch from the message?

Yup, in the spirit of the sender, the inline 'attachment' worked fine!

Agent correctly showed the demarcation, but since there was no filename
given, agent can't save it. That's how inline text attachments work, and
they're preferred in some places.

There was a filename, and gnus handles it correctly:

--------------070604080302010003040205
Content-Type: text/plain;
name="Diodenpulser_4.asc"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
filename="Diodenpulser_4.asc"

Version 4
SHEET 1 1388 804 ....

His was really truly and attachment, with a filename.

Both can work AFAICS, although obviously newsreaders can differ.

 

[Joerg]

The danger there is that if somebody posts a text plain document that is NOT intended for LTspice it will start LTspice anyways.
'Text plain' is just that, ASCII text, and should go to an ASCII editor or display.
So we need a new mime type, 'text LTspice'.

The rest is just undefined.

In Thunderbird it clearly shows the extension as *.asc, not *.txt.
Software launching should not be based on file contents but on the file
suffix. But yeah, if someone would use *.asc for a poem or a barbecue
recipe then it's all screwed

 

[Warren]

Jim Thompson expounded in

Except that you didn't attach it properly. GIGO ;-)

...Jim Thompson

It worked for me.

 

[Warren]

Jim Thompson expounded in

On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 13:49:38 -0700, Joerg

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 13:38:45 -0700, Joerg

Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Well, shazam! It sure worked. Beats me why because
the folks at the news server said it wouldn't. And
in the past it hadn't. Probably the Hobbs
coefficient was too low on all the others
Try posting one before you start the party. Some
servers will carry
messages with attachments, but not let you post
them.

Ok, here is that test, a laser pump diode pulser.
Nothing confidential, it was my contribution to a
discussion in a European NG.

Well, what can I say, it worked.
[snip]

Nope. Your .asc file appeared in the body, not
properly attached.

You would be better off if you used tools that adhere
to the standards.

Or could it be your tools that don't behave?

On Thunderbird it does show as inline plus as an
attached file. To make sure, I then downloaded it into a
temp directory (not the one from where I attached it)
and opened it in LTSpice. Woiks. Then I did same with
the netbook which never had that file. Woiks.

Did you try launching from the message?

I think Agent IS the standard.

Obviously not a very good one. Klaus Butzmann in the German
NG read my attachment just fine, as a file.

Oh, well. Arguing with you is like arguing with a stump.
You have all the trouble, yet claim you're always right.
You should join Larkin's organization... you'd fit right
in

One guy did, he just said so. It's midnight over there so
there won't be many answering in the next few hours.

Was anyone else able to launch from the message?

Hobbs' posting launched from within the message.

"One" guy using your same tool can read it ? Did he
launch into LTspice FROM the message? Hobbs' post worked,
your's didn't.
...Jim Thompson

Using Xnews here: just had to save it with the "Launch"
checkbox checked, and LTspice came up with it just fine.

Warren

 

[John Devereux]

[snip]

Hobbs' posting launched from within the message.

His was really truly and attachment, with a filename.

But you're being touch too sensitive or pedantic going on about trying
to avoid a simple copy/paste/rename operation to recreate a text file.

Grant.

Not that I really care, but Joerg's way...

Select text, copy text, open text editor, paste text, save as .asc,
close; open file with LTspice.

Properly attached...

Not here - nothing, inline or "attached".

 

[Grant]

Jim Thompson wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Well, shazam! It sure worked. Beats me why because the folks at the news
server said it wouldn't. And in the past it hadn't. Probably the Hobbs
coefficient was too low on all the others
Try posting one before you start the party. Some servers will carry
messages with attachments, but not let you post them.

Ok, here is that test, a laser pump diode pulser. Nothing confidential,
it was my contribution to a discussion in a European NG.

Well, what can I say, it worked.

[snip]

Nope. Your .asc file appeared in the body, not properly attached.

You would be better off if you used tools that adhere to the
standards.


Or could it be your tools that don't behave?

On Thunderbird it does show as inline plus as an attached file. To make
sure, I then downloaded it into a temp directory (not the one from where
I attached it) and opened it in LTSpice. Woiks. Then I did same with the
netbook which never had that file. Woiks.

Did you try launching from the message?

I think Agent IS the standard.

No, Agent's been around for a long time, that's all

Oh, well. Arguing with you is like arguing with a stump. You have
all the trouble, yet claim you're always right. You should join
Larkin's organization... you'd fit right in

Was anyone else able to launch from the message?

Yup, in the spirit of the sender, the inline 'attachment' worked fine!

Agent correctly showed the demarcation, but since there was no filename
given, agent can't save it. That's how inline text attachments work, and
they're preferred in some places.

There was a filename, and gnus handles it correctly:

Oops, serves me right for not looking at the source message In that
case Agent made a boo-boo by not saving the file, I don't think they're
doing much development these days, not enough paying users?

(I'm a paid up Agent user since Aug'96, vers .99! -- the one shareware
I paid for and use daily for years, upgraded to pay for version to get
the email functions, I recall).

Both can work AFAICS, although obviously newsreaders can differ.

Yup, I did forward the message to Thunderbird and got the same non-launch.

Grant.

 

[Grant]

[snip]

Hobbs' posting launched from within the message.

His was really truly and attachment, with a filename.

But you're being touch too sensitive or pedantic going on about trying
to avoid a simple copy/paste/rename operation to recreate a text file.

Grant.

Not that I really care, but Joerg's way...

Select text, copy text, open text editor, paste text, save as .asc,
close; open file with LTspice.

Properly attached...

Right click on file name, click launch.

Yes, I do agree Much quicker, but then I'm used to transferring from
windoze email to/from unix text, so I do the copy/paste dance in a trance.

Grant.

 

[Grant]

On first try no.
On second try, after I added
text plain rxvt -e joe
to the helper list, it popped up my text editor joe with that 'attachment' in it.

So it is merely a configuration issue on the RECEIVER side.

This is on the Linux newsreader NewsFleX I wrote of course.
NewsFleX homepage:
http://www.panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/
and ftp download
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/linux/system/news/readers/

Jan, are you maintaining NewsFleX? I mean, it's up to date? Since I've been
using Agent for so long one of the things tying me to windows is finding a
decent (like Agent, or easy to learn) newsreader for Linux

No 'agent' is not the standard, there are RFC documents that are, try reading those.
Anyways this is the best newsreader that exists for Linux, IMNSHO, and the closest one ever gets to agent.

Come to think of it, 'text plain' could be replaced in the sender by 'text ltspice'.
And then I could have it automatically start LTspice here by adding that to the helper list.
Now all we need is to propose that mime type to the internet community in the form of an amendment to the appropriate rfc.
Maybe such a type already exists.
Of course it is all for the extremely lazy, as you can just save text plain and use that.

Well, that's how the discussion arose, Jim T. is trying to save seconds per
day Older you get, the more precious your time is?? I'm starting to feel
that way and I'm decades younger than Jim.

Grant.

 

[Grant]

The danger there is that if somebody posts a text plain document that is NOT intended for LTspice it will start LTspice anyways.
'Text plain' is just that, ASCII text, and should go to an ASCII editor or display.
So we need a new mime type, 'text LTspice'.

The rest is just undefined.

Jim: Try Right-click Joerg's message, then Open Attachment Folder ->
Double-click Diodenpulser_4.asc

Message was saved, not flagged as launchable, so at least there's no need
for the copy/paste dance.

So possibly the text/plain type needs to be something else?

Note too, the many signatureNN.asc files in that folder. Double-click
to have LTSpice throw an error, for fun? Not!

Grant.

 

[ehsjr]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

It was atttached as plain ASCII, not a .ASC file.

Weird. Not just your experience with it, but several different
posters have reported different results.

I wonder if it is a news server issue, or a news reader issue,
or perhaps some configuration setting on the PC. For me it shows
up as an .asc extension in the Attachments: window. But I can't
launch it correctly. (Using Thunderbird 1.0.2). When I try, I
get a Spice Error - Multiple instances of "Flag". I get the same
error on the one Phil sent when I try to launch his, so it is some
kind of local error in my configuration, as Jim has success
launching from with Phil's post.

If I save the file (either Joerg's or Phil's) by right click, save
to disk, I can double click on the saved file and it opens properly
in LTSPice.

Ed

 

[John - KD5YI]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:



Weird. Not just your experience with it, but several different
posters have reported different results.

I wonder if it is a news server issue, or a news reader issue,
or perhaps some configuration setting on the PC. For me it shows
up as an .asc extension in the Attachments: window. But I can't
launch it correctly. (Using Thunderbird 1.0.2). When I try, I
get a Spice Error - Multiple instances of "Flag". I get the same
error on the one Phil sent when I try to launch his, so it is some
kind of local error in my configuration, as Jim has success
launching from with Phil's post.

If I save the file (either Joerg's or Phil's) by right click, save
to disk, I can double click on the saved file and it opens properly
in LTSPice.

Ed

I have the same problem. You are probably seeing the text file even
though LTSpice is loading the file. That is, LTS is loading the file as
a text file rather than an asc file. Look at the file name in the upper
left corner after LTS loads it and responds with the error message. On
mine it shows name(dot)asc(dot)txt. Somehow, TB is appending .txt before
handing it off to LTS, I think.

I don't know how to fix this.

John

 

[John Devereux]

[snip]

Hobbs' posting launched from within the message.

His was really truly and attachment, with a filename.

But you're being touch too sensitive or pedantic going on about trying
to avoid a simple copy/paste/rename operation to recreate a text file.

Grant.


Not that I really care, but Joerg's way...

Select text, copy text, open text editor, paste text, save as .asc,
close; open file with LTspice.

Properly attached...

Not here - nothing, inline or "attached".

Right click on file name, click launch.

...Jim Thompson

You couldn't see the attachment in this message...

Sorry, I misunderstood - I thought there was supposed to be an
attachment in the message I replied too...

All the various methods tried here seem to have worked for me so far.q

 

[Joerg]

[snip]
Hobbs' posting launched from within the message.
His was really truly and attachment, with a filename.

But you're being touch too sensitive or pedantic going on about trying
to avoid a simple copy/paste/rename operation to recreate a text file.

Grant.

Not that I really care, but Joerg's way...

Select text, copy text, open text editor, paste text, save as .asc,
close; open file with LTspice.

Properly attached...

Right click on file name, click launch.

Yes, I do agree Much quicker, but then I'm used to transferring from
windoze email to/from unix text, so I do the copy/paste dance in a trance.

Grant.

...Jim Thompson

I do that all the time as well. But Joerg needed his blather tamed
;-)

Oh really? Another guy on the European NG, quote "Dein angehängtes
Beispiel konnte ich problemlos in LTSPICE laden und simulieren." Literal
translation: I could load and simulate your attached example in LTSpice
without problems.

He uses Seamonkey (also a Mozilla product), not sure why they picked
that strange name. Even if this pains you, it seems Agent is not the
standard. Or at least not anymore.