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Re: Hey do you know your car's alternator only outputs 7-10% while it'srunning?

F

Fred Abse

Youtube has some lovely clips of wind turbines self-destructing when the
brake or feather mechanism designed to cope with high winds fails.

Running at higher rpm may also exceed bearing ratings too, i.e. the
alternator life will be drastically shorted. Try revving your Chevy to
10,000 rpm for comparison !

A few months ago, California State route 58 was closed at Tehachapi
because of a runaway wind turbine. They are *big* ones there.
 
F

Fred Abse

Permanent magnet. Would that not then be a generator, not an
alternator?

No. Permanent magnet rotor, windings on the stator. Still an alternator.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

This was simply because they were belted to
run at a slower RPM.

No, it is not. Generators were specifically less efficient at lower
engine speeds, and it had NOTHING to do with pulley ratios, you fucking
dipshit. The pulley ratio was only slightly lower, and that was due to
the larger mass that the rotor of the typical generator of the time had.

If all you are going to do is make shit up, you should stay out of a
discussion where you tout yourself as knowing about it.
 
P

PeterD

Again power is not measured in AMP, but in WATT you stupid jerks, Give it up now suckers.

Trolls are not measured in 'Richardsons' but they should be...
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

This was necessary because when the engine was
turning at 3k-4k, you couldn't have the generator spinning much faster
than 4k itself or it would disintegrate from the centrifugal forces.
(unless you want to spend the $ on a variable-ratio belt drive for just
the DC generator).

There are no cars that incorporate variable ratio belt drives in
America. It is too expensive, and there is no need.

The belt drive on generators was NOT 1:1 or anywhere near it.

Cars topped out at 5500 rpm back then from the factory. It was not
until the muscle car era that rpms crept up, and that was still not for
offline production. The drive hub on the harmonic balancer and the hub
on the generator were about 2:1 up. I was building engines at the time,
and I also used a generator as a motor on one of my go-carts, so I
remember the hub sizes.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Alternators are connected to the engine with a belt drive that steps-up
the RPM so that when the engine is idling, the alternator is spinning
much faster.

I do not need a primer from a dope that doesn't even know how
generators were driven.
 
J

John Larkin

Wrong. ALL wind turbines gear up the rotational ratio to the driven
shaft. ALL of them. The governor is for the blades, NOT the alternator.

Google "ungeared wind turbine" and confirm that you are always, always
AlwaysWrong.

Hey, catching your mistakes is both fun and educational.

John
 
J

John Larkin

With today's switch mode power supply technology there really is no
reason an alternator cannot produce higher voltage and have it
electronically converted to clean, regulated power of whatever voltage
is desired for battery charging and accessory power use.

Why add all that complexity when the field current can be varied?

And PM alternators can be shorted with an SCR or equivalent to limit
battery charging current.

John
 
Actually, the voltage was raised to save on copper, weight and space.

Yes, and the only reason 12 volts does that is because to provide the
same amount of POWER only half the CURRENT is required - therefore
lighter wires, less weight, and less space.
 
[snip]
No, power is NEVER measured in amps. Current is measured in amps.
Power is in Watts, Joules, Calories, BTUs or horsepower. (or volt-amps
or foot-lbs per unit time)

When did the Joule, calorie, and BTU become a unit of power?
Sorry, BTU,Calorie and Joules per unit time. BTU, Calorie and Joule
are units of ENERGY. (Like foot lbs)
 
No shit. Did you spend your entire life coming to that conclusion, or
did someone just hit you upside da haed with a common sense stick?

It certainly does not require 2000 rpms either.
Depends on the implementation. And the alternator. And whether you
mean engine RPM or alternator RPM.
 
Wrong. ALL wind turbines gear up the rotational ratio to the driven
shaft. ALL of them. The governor is for the blades, NOT the alternator.
A Piggott wind turbine is direct drive - and since a Piggott wind
turbine most definitely exists, by deduction it is clear that NOT ALL
wind turbines gear up the rotation ratio. There are many other "plans
built" wind turbines out there that are also direct drive (and I am
certain also at least several commercial units in the low - mid power
range)

And if the governor limits blade speed, what does that do to
alternator speed???
Are you aware of any wind turbine employing a CVT??? (contantly
variable transmission)
 
You get so flustered you can't even write what you mean. "Power is
measured in AMP but in watt" ??? funny. I doubt that's what you meant,
but with you, one can never be sure.

If you keep the voltage fixed, you have to increase the current to get
more power, even a troll like you should agree to that. Unless you want
to shift the whole discussion to AC power transmission, but I don't
think you have the background to carry on a discussion about
torque-angles and power factor so we'll just keep to DC for your sake.

As to what I know about electrical machinery and electronics, you have
no idea what you're talking about. I was re-wiring motors and fixing
the regulators for the old-style DC generators for marine engines while
your mama was still wiping your poop of your butt.

daestrom
Mabee when his gramma was wiping his mama's butt.
 
No, it is not. Generators were specifically less efficient at lower
engine speeds, and it had NOTHING to do with pulley ratios, you fucking
dipshit. The pulley ratio was only slightly lower, and that was due to
the larger mass that the rotor of the typical generator of the time had.

If all you are going to do is make shit up, you should stay out of a
discussion where you tout yourself as knowing about it.


They WERE less efficient at low speeds, but he is right - they were
also run at much lower speeds for the reason stated.
I believe you should take your own advice re: staying out of a
discussion where you do not know what you are talking about. (or your
knowledge is relatively limitted)
 
There are no cars that incorporate variable ratio belt drives in
America. It is too expensive, and there is no need.

The belt drive on generators was NOT 1:1 or anywhere near it.

But virtually NEVER over 2:1 Alternator drives are routinely 3:1 or
better.
Cars topped out at 5500 rpm back then from the factory. It was not
until the muscle car era that rpms crept up, and that was still not for
offline production. The drive hub on the harmonic balancer and the hub
on the generator were about 2:1 up. I was building engines at the time,
and I also used a generator as a motor on one of my go-carts, so I
remember the hub sizes.

And many engines back in the generator years redlined at about 3600.

Ever convert a generator to a REALLY GOOD gocart motor? Put GM starter
feild coils into a generator - and hook them up in series with the
alternator.
 
Why add all that complexity when the field current can be varied?

And PM alternators can be shorted with an SCR or equivalent to limit
battery charging current.

John
EFFICIENCY. You want lots of POWER out of a small device you need HIGH
VOLTAGE at low current. You want 12 volt accessories? Run them off a
SMPS converter rather than adding a 12 volt
generator/alternator/battery to supply the low voltage.

PMA and PMG technology, using a SCR style shunt regulator is EXTEMELY
innefficient, particularly at higher power levels.
 
K

krw

They WERE less efficient at low speeds, but he is right - they were
also run at much lower speeds for the reason stated.
I believe you should take your own advice re: staying out of a
discussion where you do not know what you are talking about. (or your
knowledge is relatively limitted)

DimBulb (A.K.A. AlwaysWrong) stay out of a discussion he knows nothing
about? He'd be gone. Say...
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

They WERE less efficient at low speeds, but he is right - they were
also run at much lower speeds for the reason stated.

That is NOT what he stated. He stated that they were run at 1:1 of the
engine speed, and that is what I refuted. You need to learn how to read.

I believe you should take your own advice

I believe that you should **** off until you learn how to read. No I
am not talking about only getting PART of what you read either.
re: staying out of a
discussion where you do not know what you are talking about. (or your
knowledge is relatively limitted)

Said the ditz that cannot even spell the word limited.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

And many engines back in the generator years redlined at about 3600.

You're an idiot. The engines of the 50s and 60s redlined above 5000
rpm.

3600 rpm was the model T years, you ditz.
 
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