Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

[Jasen Betts]

Joe Thompson wrote


Nope, it was an addon, not multitasking as part of the OS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MultiFinder

So was windows until NT.

 

[Rod Speed]

Jasen Betts wrote

So was windows until NT.

Nope. And that was well after multitasking in Win anyway.

 

[Seebs]

Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.

Not particularly, no.

Yes, it would be more convient if the bulk of the market wanted the
OS you prefer, but when it doesnt, you still have a real choice of OS.

Not really.

It isnt as if it even costs you any more for the OS you prefer.

It sort of does.

Thats just basic market economics, stupid.

No one denied that it was; maybe you should save the word "stupid" for times
when it's applicable?

However, a "real choice" in economic terms suggests that, say, you basically
get to choose which products to buy. If the only way to get a burger king
burger were to buy a burger from McD's, at which point you could throw the
burger out but keep the carton, then go to BK and have them put a free burger
in the carton, that would not be a "real choice" the way the current system
is.

-s

 

[Jim Brown]

Seebs wrote

Not particularly, no.

Not really.

Yes, really. It wouldnt even cost you a cent more.

It sort of does.

Pigs arse it does.

No one denied that it was; maybe you should save
the word "stupid" for times when it's applicable?

Its completely applicable there.

However, a "real choice" in economic terms suggests that,
say, you basically get to choose which products to buy.

And that is precisely what you got when the alternative is quite literally free.

If the only way to get a burger king burger were to buy
a burger from McD's, at which point you could throw the
burger out but keep the carton, then go to BK and have them
put a free burger in the carton, that would not be a "real choice"

Corse it would be.

And thats nothing like the situation with PCs anyway.

 

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

Jasen Betts wrote


Nope. And that was well after multitasking in Win anyway.

You missed the point - until NT Windows wasn't an OS, MSDOS
was the OS and Windows was an addon.

 

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

Seebs wrote

And that is precisely what you got when the alternative is quite
literally free.

It's not free if you account for your time. When the only way to
buy a PC is to buy it with Windows installed (and therefore paid for) the
cost of installing Windows is zero (no money, no time).

The cost of installing another OS is the cost of obtaining it
(download time plus blank media - or purchase cost of installation media at
a minimum) plus the (moderately skilled) time it takes to install it.
That's not zero.

Now this all changes if you get the PC without an OS for less than
the cost of the same PC with an OS or if there is a choice of pre-installed
OS on the hardware of your choice. Neither is common even now.

 

[Peter Flass]

Not particularly, no.


Not really.


It sort of does.


No one denied that it was; maybe you should save the word "stupid" for times
when it's applicable?

However, a "real choice" in economic terms suggests that, say, you basically
get to choose which products to buy. If the only way to get a burger king
burger were to buy a burger from McD's, at which point you could throw the
burger out but keep the carton, then go to BK and have them put a free burger
in the carton, that would not be a "real choice" the way the current system
is.

Not much point in arguing, it would appear. No matter what you say, one
or more clone will just deny it and tell you how stupid you are.

 

[Peter Flass]

It's not free if you account for your time. When the only way to
buy a PC is to buy it with Windows installed (and therefore paid for) the
cost of installing Windows is zero (no money, no time).

The cost of installing another OS is the cost of obtaining it
(download time plus blank media - or purchase cost of installation media at
a minimum) plus the (moderately skilled) time it takes to install it.
That's not zero.

Now this all changes if you get the PC without an OS for less than
the cost of the same PC with an OS or if there is a choice of pre-installed
OS on the hardware of your choice. Neither is common even now.

Dual-core pentium for less than $350; Fedora install less than 20
minutes; not having to pay the Bill tax, priceless! Obviously
installing an OS from scratch is not for everyone, but if yu know your
way around a computer it isn't too difficult. Now if only I could get
Samba and VirtualBox to play well together - I had it working but made a
change and broke it :-(

 

[Joe Thompson]

Seebs wrote

And that is precisely what you got when the alternative is quite
literally free.

Not when there is a product one cannot choose not to buy.

Corse it would be.

Not unless McDonald's gave me a refund for the unwanted burger, so that
my free burger was actually free. -- Joe

 

[Roland Hutchinson]

Not when there is a product one cannot choose not to buy.


Not unless McDonald's gave me a refund for the unwanted burger, so that
my free burger was actually free. -- Joe

I'm sorry, but your burger was licensed only for eating out of the
original carton. It has no value by itself.

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )

 

[Charlie Gibbs]

Indeed, DOS was not an innovation, it wasn't even orignally developed
by MS. Indeed, Windows was not an innnovation, just a ripoff of Xerox
and Apple. Networking in windows (remember Winsock?) derived from
BSD. Network File Systems? First done by Novell with Netware.
Where's NetBUI today (an example of innovation gone bad)?
IE? First done by Mosiac, then Netscape.
The Zune was not an innovation, nor was the Xbox, nor is their cloud.

Microsoft only innovates in monopolization techniques.

And even there they stole a lot from IBM.

 

[Charlie Gibbs]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote


Pigs arse it was.

Look up Seattle Computer Systems and QDOS, a quick-and-dirty
rewrite of CP/M for the 8086.

Just because a couple of clowns claim something, doesnt make it
gospel.

That's just as true when one of the clowns is Bill Gates.

 

[Charlie Gibbs]

Well that didn't take long this time.

At least he's chosen new catchphrases.

 

[Charlie Gibbs]

Seebs wrote


The real point is that so much of the Win UI has ended up in *nix
GUIs.

Show us the source code.

Oh wait, you argued the opposite over MS-DOS's CP/M heritage...

 

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

I'm sorry, but your burger was licensed only for eating out of the
original carton. It has no value by itself.

I was wondering about the legality of porting the cheese.

 

[Charlie Gibbs]

BASIC in a ROM as the command interface of a microcomputer was
AFAICT a genuine Microsoft innovation.

And along with it, the misspelling of "OK" as "Ok", which has gone viral.

 

[Charlie Gibbs]

It doesn't count as a "real choice" unless it's on the same terms.
If I have to pay for Windows even though I intend to wipe the drive
and install another OS before Windows ever boots, I do not have a real
choice. -- Joe

Nor is it a choice in environments where other people are sending you
files in proprietary Microsoft formats.

There's a lot more to choice than mere availability.

 

[Roland Hutchinson]

I was wondering about the legality of porting the cheese.

Your only option is to return the complete burger for a refund in
original, unopened box.

Installation of third-party cheese voids the warranty.

You want fries with that?

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )

 

[Peter Flass]

Not when there is a product one cannot choose not to buy.


Not unless McDonald's gave me a refund for the unwanted burger, so that
my free burger was actually free. -- Joe

Even then, the hassle involved in buying the mickey-D's burger and then
returning it would be enough to make most people not want to bother.

I really like this example.

 

[Charlie Gibbs]

Charlie Asking Roddles to read, that is going too far. Your average
preschooler only looks at pictures.

But that's what GUIs are all about, aren't they?