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Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London

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Rod Speed

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote
Of course proper pre-emptive multitasking

Wasnt what was being discussed.
Now just in case you're going to claim that cooperative
multitasking on the desktop was an MS innovation -

Nope, never ever did. I JUST said that it showed up in Win before it did with the Mac.
Sorry Rod - multitasking on a personal computer was
not even remotely close to being a Microsoft innovation.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?
Got any other candidates ?

Already rubbed your nose in a list of them.
 
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Andreas Eder

Hi Rod,

Rod> How odd that Linux has used so much of the UI seen with
Rod> Win.

Well, not Linux, but maybe Gnome or KDE.
But you are free - and actually well advised - to use any one of
more than a dozen different GUIs that run on Linux. I for example
am using xmonad.

'Andreas
 
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote

Already rubbed your nose in a list of them.

As far as I can see all your suggestions have been debunked, apart
from vague phrases with no content. So please once more let us see an
example of Microsoft innovation - here just to set the ball rolling I'll
give you the only one I know of.

BASIC in a ROM as the command interface of a microcomputer was
AFAICT a genuine Microsoft innovation.
 
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Peter Flass

Thats a lie. They clearly did with the browser, and with the
UI that even Linux has copied extensively now, and with
networking that even stupid users can use, etc etc etc.

Xerox? Apple? Mosaic?
The consumers clearly felt otherwise. You get to like that or lump it.


The consumers never had a real choice.
 
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Peter Flass

You're wrong about everything, as usual.

You should write a book. You could turn the history of personal
computers on its ear with this previously unknown information.
 
P

Peter Flass

Well, the topic was Apple I, which implies consumer=grade systems.

Burroughs (PPoE) had the capability to share files between
multiple systems (a al NFS/AppleTalk/NetWare) in the 1960's
with up to 8 hosts accessing a single spindle using FPM (file
protect memory) and later SSP (Shared Systems Processor)
for block-level lockout.

Burroughs had a lot of great stuff earlier than most. 5500 MCP was a
wonder compared to OS/360. First virtual memory system I ever worked
on. It's a pity they didn't succeed. I'm looking forward to someone
doing a emulator for one of their systems, now that MCP source and some
of the compilers are available.
 
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Peter Flass

Scott Lurndal wrote


Irrelevant to whether there has been any INNOVATION with IE.

Of course IE has innovated. How do you think all the security holes got
in there?
 
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Peter Flass

As far as I can see all your suggestions have been debunked, apart
from vague phrases with no content. So please once more let us see an
example of Microsoft innovation - here just to set the ball rolling I'll
give you the only one I know of.

BASIC in a ROM as the command interface of a microcomputer was
AFAICT a genuine Microsoft innovation.

TI 99/4?
 
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot


That was 1979, Altair BASIC was 1975 (but that was on paper tape)
by 1977 there were a number of ROM based machines using it.
 
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Rod Speed

Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote
As far as I can see all your suggestions have been debunked,

Another lie, you havent debunked even a single one.
apart from vague phrases with no content.

More of your lies.
So please once more let us see an example of Microsoft innovation

Already rubbed your nose in a list of them.
- here just to set the ball rolling I'll give you the only one I know of.

Your problem.
BASIC in a ROM as the command interface of a microcomputer
was AFAICT a genuine Microsoft innovation.

It aint the only one.
 
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Rod Speed

jmfbahciv wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Which was similar to the OS on the PDP-8.

All of them for the smaller machines have similaritys.

In fact most of the 8s didnt even have an OS at all.
There was code before FAL which could transfer files between systems.

Any decent network has to be able to do that sort of basic stuff.

Using that mindlessly silly line, only the first network was ever an innovation.
Please note that this ability to transfer is not a network file system.

No one ever said it was.
You are ignorant.

Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.
 
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Rod Speed

Andreas Eder wrote
Well, not Linux, but maybe Gnome or KDE.

Mindless hair splitting. Neither runs on anything else.
But you are free - and actually well advised - to use any one of more than
a dozen different GUIs that run on Linux. I for example am using xmonad.

Irrelevant to the FACT that quite a few of the GUIs that run on Linux use bits of the Win UI.
 
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Rod Speed

Esra Sdrawkcab wrote
Marketing, not technical innovation was/is? their main forte.

Corse we never ever saw anything like that from Apple, eh ?
 
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Seebs

Andreas Eder wrote
Mindless hair splitting. Neither runs on anything else.

This is nonresponsive. The point is that Linux runs with many interfaces
other than KDE and Gnome. So while those two specific programs may look
sort of Windowsy (or sort of Macish, or whatever else you want to compare
them to), that doesn't mean that Linux does.
Irrelevant to the FACT that quite a few of the GUIs that run on
Linux use bits of the Win UI.

You sure do like to accuse people of lying without ruling out the possibility
that they are, say, mistaken, or simply disagree with you about matters of
opinion, and use the all-caps word FACT for something that's pretty much an
opinion.

You haven't even offered a meaningful claim here, because you haven't really
defined what you mean as "bits of the Win UI". You mean, say, rectangular
screen areas with defined borders? Hardly specific to Windows.

If you want to advance a claim, define some terms. Start by describing what
you think makes something "bits of the Win UI" rather than "user interface
elements which are substantially identical across every major UI ever seen".

Certainly, I've seen a few skins to give X window decorations that look a
bit like various versions of Windows, as well as skins to make X look like
Mac OS 7, Mac OS 9, OS X, NextStep, BeOS, and AmigaDOS. I am not sure that
any of this meaningfully qualifies as "bits of the <foo> UI", because none
of them really behave all that much like the systems they look like.

-s
 
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Seebs

Peter Flass wrote
None of those had networking that even stupid users could setup.

Okay, this is the point at which I stop taking you seriously, because you've
just failed to pick up a category. Only two of those were vendors. One of
them was a browser, and thus not even in the right category to be "had
networking that even stupid users could setup".

Furthermore, it just ain't so. Back in the OS 6 days, I saw stupid users
set up networking very easily with no problem at all on a Mac. Plug the cable
into two machines, tell them to "turn on appletalk", and there you go,
network.
Corse they did.

You might want to define what you mean by a "real choice". Back in the day,
I once spent a day and a half trying to find a vendor who was willing to sell
me a non-Windows laptop.
And they certainly do now when the main alternative is quite literally free.

That doesn't necessarily create a "real choice" for most people. A real
choice is what you get from what you see on the shelves in a store. It also
has to live within constraints such as "the specific software we have to run
can run on this".

But you know what? Even if you have a point, you're too much of a jerk about
it to be fun to talk to. One of the foundational tools in effective
discussion is called the "principle of charity", and you haven't got any hint
of it. I love talking to people who have interesting opinions and are
willing to argue for them. I don't like being insulted by someone whose
purpose in posting is clearly to try to make himself feel important and smart
at the expense of other people.

It's Usenet. Whatever you know, someone in the group knows more than you.
However smart you are, someone in the group is smarter than you. Whatever
your personal experience, someone in the group has more relevant personal
experience. I could gloat about how well I know C, but dmr's been seen to
post to Usenet occasionally.

Smart people learn from this to be humble and polite. People who are arrogant
and rude are, essentially without exception, not smart enough to be
interesting.

*plonk*

-s
 
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Seebs

Of course IE has innovated. How do you think all the security holes got
in there?

You make a good point here, actually. I mean, a serious one.

I believe Microsoft's decision to build a mail client which would
instantly execute code from incoming email without any sort of user
interaction was, in fact, a pure innovation. No one had ever done it
before that I know of.

Basically, Microsoft single-handedly invented the botnet and the email
virus. Actually, I'm not quite sure that's fair. Technically, the GOOD
TIMES jokers *invented* the email virus, as an abstract concept, but
Microsoft was by far the first company to actually implement the necessary
infrastructure.

-s
 
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