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News

Engineers also base their conclusions on valid references. Despite
several requests, you have provided none.

You have been pointed to the info. I can't help it if you have no
engineering mind.
 
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News

Those incentives are in place.

This one sounds like an auto corp'n troll. What inceptives? I see no heavy
tightening of economy and emissions regs about to burst forth that precludes
the piston engine.
*IF* what you say is true, auto
manufacturers have already invested
heavily in those engines,

I gave the Orital which you implied you had never heard of. I'll play your
game. References please?
but given them up despite large
investments and big incentives. That
tells us something.

The "big" incentives were to drag their feet using public money on projects
such as the fuel cell and electric drives. Any other r&d is on the back
burner. Giving money to auto companies is silly. Their track record on
change and innovation is appalling. Other institutions should have been
given the money. When proven, viable power units are available then tighten
the regs, so that the auto giants have to fall in line and adopt them.

Look at the 1960s and what the auto giants did over safety - Nader. And in
the 1970s over emissions. They spent fortunes legally fighting both instead
of getting on with the job. A bunch of tossers, the lot of them. They hate
change.
 
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News

Bob Peterson said:
You are making a completely unwarranted
jump between a sound concept (of
which there are a lot) and the concept being
commerically viable (very few
ideas ever make it that far).

Usually because of vested interest rather than the concepts being flawed.
Some concepts that will only give a marginal advantage are naturally
dropped.
Suggesting that some kind of government
mandate is the only thing that will force car
makers to use the QT is the
same as saying it is no good and would
only be useful if people were forced
to use it.

You put "people" and auto giants in the same pot. The "people" want
vehicles that are safe, cheap, cost little to run and don't pollute the
immediate and global environments. Auto giants only look at the bottom
line. Do not put them both in the same group.
probably not what you meant to say.
its pretty obvious you have
little clue about how the auto industry
has to work to be successful.

You are joking of curse.
You can't take a flyer on something that
barely even has a prototype at present
and decide to switch out all your powerplants
to some future version of that
prototype. No one even knows if the QT is
even viable yet.

What must happen is that government people must assess viable alternative
and set limits that will encompass them and leave behind the current
antiquate crop of iron lumps. You don't regulate to one technology or type.
I am unaware of any innovation that has a proven track recoird that they
have not gone with. Electronic ignition, fuel injection, tansaxles, front
wheel drive, etc, etc. It just takes a long time to get from the pre-design
phase where the QT is now to the commerically succesful phase. 10-20 years
is not that long to get there.

Missedcthe point. The core concept of the current piston power unit is
flawed - that is plain for all to see. It is a heat engine, as heat is its
major product with BHP a by-product. It is highly inefficient and dirty.

Electronic ignition and fuel injection systems is technology that plasters
over the cracks. The cracks making little overall improvement to
efficiency. The cracks are still underneath.
Its full of BS and fluff. That does not mean that it can't eventually
become commerically successful, only that it is
a LONG way from where it is
now to where it needs to be.

So, it is a long way off, so it should be dismissed? Please? If we all
adopted that attitude Frank Whittle would not have invented and produced the
jet engine. The concept was there, it was viable, so he was given a small
staff to do some r&d with the Rover car company making some of the first
prototypes. It was a hell of a long way off in the 1930s.
 
B

Bob Peterson

News said:
You have been pointed to the info. I can't help it if you have no
engineering mind.

I am always suspicious of people who can only talk in generalities and can't
relaly talk to the specifics of issues. It makes it really hard to
beleiveanything they say. Claiming other people are unable to understand
gibberish is not the answer.
 
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News

A friend of mine is a an automotive design engineer. For e.g., he has
worked on the Range Rover, Land Rover and Triumph bike engines. I directed
him to the QT. His response was very favourable, saying it was very good
design and sees no problems in implementation - the normal r&d iterations.
He has also worked on Ford designs in which Ford had no input whatsoever -
totally farmed out. I asked him what he thought about it being taken up by
the big boys. His reaction was mixed. One was that they are ultra
conservative. Another that only legislation will force them to look at it.
He also said some may take it up, like they did with the Orbital, and then
having it back burnered, just in case. I rate this guys opinions.

He gave me this URL:
http://www.deadbeatdad.org/eliptoid/menu2.htm

Many designs of alternative engines with many running. The Aussie unit by
RevTec is in production. Not a rotary, shame, but an improvement on the
current IC deign.

A number of these designs conceptually are very appealing and only require
r&d, which means money.
 
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Nick Pine

Just a reminder that "internal combustion" is off-topic in alt.solar.thermal.

Nick
 
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News

Bob Peterson said:
I am always suspicious of people who can only talk in generalities and can't
relaly talk to the specifics of issues. It makes it really hard to
beleiveanything they say. Claiming other people are unable to understand
gibberish is not the answer.

Gibberish? Please?
 
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News

Do you look? They are already in place, emission standards as well as
average fleet economy.

Strict aren't they?
ROTFLMAO!!! Your posts! Remember, you claimed all the major
manufactures bought licenses and a couple even set up factories. It's
OK, we don't believe what you say either.

Did you look? NO!
Hardly. The big incentives are things like "your line will produce
less than xx emissions" and "your average fleet economy will be xx"
So, give us an example of proven, viable alternative power units.
BTW, your orbital engine

Not my engine.
is neither proven nor viable at this time.

Read some more.

You are either a troll or a bad guesser.
 
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Gordon Richmond

"Missedcthe point. The core concept of the current piston power unit
is flawed - that is plain for all to see. It is a heat engine, as
heat is its major product with BHP a by-product. It is highly
inefficient and dirty."

And the quasiturbine is NOT a heat engine? Do tell.

Gordon Richmond
 
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News

Rusty Shackleford said:
Hey, you asked for a reference, I gave you a reference.


I'm neither, I've read it all. Just because you say it doesn't make
it true.

Why is it, given the large investment the auto makers have made in
this engine (according to you) that they aren't using it?

Oh my God!! That is one of the points of this thread. Why???? Why are we
still with this unbelievably inefficient piston IC engine after over 100
years?
 
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News

Gordon Richmond said:
"Missedcthe point. The core concept of the current piston power unit
is flawed - that is plain for all to see. It is a heat engine, as
heat is its major product with BHP a by-product. It is highly
inefficient and dirty."

And the quasiturbine is NOT a heat engine? Do tell.

Gordon Richmond

More HP is produced than heat.
 
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News

You're right, it's a question I've asked you many times, and a
question you've evaded just as many times.
????

The answer is clear and
has been posted, the orbital motor is not all it's claimed to be.

It was, and is, and had minor development problems as a poster who worked
for them clearly stated.
Because it's better than the orbital.

You are brainwashed.
It really works for one thing.

It doesn't!! It is slowly killing the worlds in more ways than one.

Who do you work for?
 
D

daestrom

Just did. Still comes out that you made a moronic statement. To
clarify for you. The standard piston engine produces more hp than
heat. If you want to contest that, come up with some facts, you are
the one claiming it doesn't.

Now that's just silly. Hp (horsepower) is a unit of power, and 'heat' is a
term refering to energy. Not the same thing at all. Now, if you meant they
produce more Hp-hr than heat, or that they can develop more hp than BTU/hr,
at least you'ld have consistent terms (although not consistent units).

Fact is, a 'standard piston engine' is less than 50% efficient. So, it must
dissipate heat at a *rate* higher than its shaft hp (after you convert to
the same units). Very few heat-engines can exceed 50% efficiency, so most
reject heat to their heat-sink at a rate higher than they produce shaft
work.

Maybe you're thinking only of the radiator's heat output and haven't
considered the heat content of the exhaust.

daestrom


daestrom
 
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News

Harry K said:
"News" <[email protected]> wrote in message

You're the one making the claim it exists. It is up to you to prove
it, not me. Is -your- intelligence up to that simple task?

I'm not making any claim. I gave you information. You said it doesn't
exist. Prove it.
 
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