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Quasiturbine in « Brash Vehicle Propulsion System ».

G

GillesQT

vaughn said:
You can't know that. The only quasiturbine you can buy is a lab bench
demo unit which does not ever appear to have a lube system.



You can't know that. The IC version is still in the future. If you make
it external combustion, then size and complexity of the entire system
increases dramatically. If you combine it with some other turbine as you
are suggesting, then size, complexity, weight, & cost all increase to a
whole new level.

As for efficiency, as an IC engine the Quasiturbine would really be much
the same as a Wankel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine , with
many of the same problems. These will include the odd-shaped combustion
chamber, sealing, and lubrication. There is a reason why the Wankel
remains a relative rarity on the world's roadways even after 50 years of
development. In efficiency, it has never matched the piston engine.


.> Marketed properly it would need an annual service like a gas furnace.

Yet again, you can't know the maintenance requirements of a machine that
has no track record.



In all these years, how many folks have even tried? Why not?

Vaughn
Bonjour,

Yes, there are some differences with the Wankel,
and theses differences append to solve the Wakel problems...
See http://quasiturbine.promci.qc.ca/ETheoryQTVersusWankel.htm

Salutations, Gilles
www.quasiturbine.com
********************************
 
N

News

You couldn't know "low maintenance" unless you work for them, hands-on
rather than in marketing.
<<<<<

As no one has mated the cyclone and a Quasiturbine then we do not know,.

<<<<<
Toyotas had an (undeserved) reputation for reliability until they
suddenly didn't.
I have had a Toyota from new for 12 years. Same exhaust, all original
rubber hoses, rear brakes, does not consume oil, etc. NOTHING has gone wrong
in 110,000 miles, apart from a battery change. It still purrs down the road
at 80mph. I used fully synthetic oil from new.
 
V

vaughn

News said:
It is a much superior design than a Wankel.

First: Since no IC Quasiturbine exists, how can you be so sure of that? It is
very easy to convince me of these things, all it takes is demonstable results.
Build a superior engine and show me, and I will line up with the rest of the
world to buy one. Until then, I am just an interested bystander.

Second: The Wankel is is not the target! To be worthwhile, the Quasiturbine
needs to be better than our existing piston engines, which have far better
efficiency than a Wankel. I simply said that the Quasiturbine looks a lot like
a Wankel. I have read the material comparing the two, and hopefully they are
correct that the Quasiturbine is superior, but we can't know until the product
exists.

Vaughn
 
N

News

vaughn said:
First: Since no IC Quasiturbine exists, how can you be so sure of that?

They do exist, but not on the market. The design is just superior - it is
that simple.
Second: The Wankel is is not the target! To be worthwhile, the
Quasiturbine needs to be better than our existing piston engines, which
have far better efficiency than a Wankel.

I am not a Wankel apologistas its basic design can be bettered, however, the
unit has a power-weight ratio far superior to piston ICs. There has been
improvements with the Norton F1 bike using an improve design about 15 years
ago. The Russians have a design that has the seals in the engine block and
are easily replaced by screwing off a lid. They have few parts with
maintenance simple. The Russians use them in helicopters. Having driven a
few Wankel engined cars they are a wonderful smooth, quiet ride. The piton
engines have had 130 years of development. If such effort was put into a
Wankel we would have a superior engine without a doubt.
I simply said that the Quasiturbine looks a lot like a Wankel. I have
read the material comparing the two, and hopefully they are correct that
the Quasiturbine is superior, but we can't know until the product exists.

They are clearly past proof of concept.

The way forward with vehicles will be the range extender type like the Chevy
Volt using a genny set with an electric motor to drive the car. Lotus have
developed an engine specifically for this use, a 3 cylinder aluminium job -
the Chevy engine is an adapted off-the-shelf unit, which is not the ideal
engine unit. Lotus are expecting many companies to go down this route and
have a design to sell. The efficiency is maximised when the engines is run
at a constant ideal speed. Chevy dropped this idea, reducing efficiency, as
they thought the drivers would have a strange experience not hearing and
engine revs up and down. In this setup the eclectic motor replaces a
transmission - sometime known as an electric transmission.

A rotary engine is smooth and quiet and ideal for the series hybrid running
at a constant maximum efficiency speed. The driver would not feel or hear
the engine. A conventional Wankel (which sill needs a transmission when
direct drive) adapted to drive the genny may be a success. The Quasiturbine
eliminates a transmission, so it may be better to have this driving the
wheels directly. The only down side are:

1) Kerbside emissions are up as opposed to a hybrid running on batteries in
crawling traffic.
2) no brake regen. - although using compressed air might suffice. Or one of
the units using in F1 cars.
 
N

News


This sort of unsubstantiated hype for an unreleased product is often a
sign that the project is in trouble and needs more money. You don't
hear about the really promising ideas until they are nearly ready for
market, to maximize the head start on the competitors.
<<<<

These products are not developed by super rich corporations. They are
developed by a few bright men. They need to have big backer to refine the
units in R&D and take to production. The Australian Revetec (a system
replacing the crank in piston engines) is an inferior design to the
Quasiturbine or Quasiturbine/steam cyclone. But Revetec have some big
backers to forward the technology, so appear ahead in many ways.

Maybe they should all see how Revetec are doing it. History is full of
superior engine designs being dropped because, for many various reasons, no
one took it up.
 
V

vaughn

News said:
The design is just superior

Oh? You are an engineer now? Superior to what? Specifically, in what ways is
it superior? Show us the test results.
I am not a Wankel apologistas its basic design can be bettered, however, the
unit has a power-weight ratio far superior to piston ICs.

So do other designs, such as turbines, but always at a fuel economy cost.
If such effort was put into a
Wankel we would have a superior engine without a doubt.

Superior to what?
They are clearly past proof of concept.

To repeat, NO IC VERSION OF THE QUASITURBINE IS AVAILABLE. As of today it only
exists in your mind, so no actual test results of actual hardware exist. Your
opinion is based on hype and hope.
The way forward with vehicles will be the range extender type like the Chevy
Volt using a genny set with an electric motor to drive the car.


Perhaps, but why do you wish to change the subject?

Off-topic bullshit snipped...
. A conventional Wankel (which sill needs a transmission when direct drive)
adapted to drive the genny may be a success. The Quasiturbine eliminates a
transmission, so it may be better to have this driving the wheels directly.
The only down side are:

1) Kerbside emissions are up as opposed to a hybrid running on batteries in
crawling traffic.

To repeat for the umteenth time: You can't know this. No test results of any
actual IC Quasiturbine seem to exist...except apparently in your mind.

Let's return to this subject when it is no longer fiction. Until then...


Vaughn
 
N

News

vaughn said:
Oh? You are an engineer now?
Yes.

Superior to what?

Just about an Wankel and piston engine.
So do other designs, such as turbines, but always at a fuel economy cost.

This appears to be superior in fuel consumption.
Superior to what?

....that is under your hood.
To repeat, NO IC VERSION OF THE QUASITURBINE IS AVAILABLE.

You understand "proof of concept".
As of today it only exists in your mind,

No in reality. They have even got videos of them pushing cars, etc.
Perhaps, but why do you wish to change the subject?

We are moving on...something your mind can't do (it is stuck in 1966).
To repeat for the umteenth time: You can't know this.

I do. If the engine is running on idle and a hybrid does not run on idle
then it emits more.

There you go.
 
N

News

They do exist, but not on the market. The design is just superior - it is
that simple.

If you think makine unsupported
assertions is proof, yes you are
simple.
<<<<<

Your mind grasp anything on paper.
They are clearly past proof of concept.

---------------------------------
Well, after all these years I would hope so. So where can I run down
and buy one?
<<<<<

Have you contacted them?
The way forward with vehicles will be the range extender type like the
Chevy
Volt using a genny set with an electric motor to drive the car. Lotus have
developed an engine specifically for this use, a 3 cylinder aluminium
job -
the Chevy engine is an adapted off-the-shelf unit, which is not the ideal
engine unit. Lotus are expecting many companies to go down this route and
have a design to sell. The efficiency is maximised when the engines is run
at a constant ideal speed. Chevy dropped this idea, reducing efficiency,
as
they thought the drivers would have a strange experience not hearing and
engine revs up and down.

-------------------------------------------------

BS.
<<<<<<<<

All 100% correct.
You are surely aware that the Ford 500/Taurus since 2005 and
other makes have a constant speed engine driving a variable speed belt
type tranny.
<<<<<<

But driving a genny that then passes power to an electric motor drive the
wheels. Pay attention please.

-------------------------------------------
I'd love to see _any_ IC engine of any type drive the wheels
'directly'. It ain't gonna happen.

--------------------------------------------------------
<<<<<<

You may be right as electric motors will do the driving.


----------------------------------------------------
You forgot one. Downside - It is still just vaporware.
<<<<

It is clear you were just a mechanic with no idea of design and no idea of
grasping concepts.
 
N

News

...
These products are not developed by super rich corporations. They are
developed by a few bright men. They need to have big backer to refine the
units in R&D and take to production. ...

Lose the corporation hangup.
<<<<<<

Look at their record.

<<<<<
Maybe they should all see how Revetec are doing it. History is full of
superior engine designs being dropped because, for many various reasons,
no
one took it up.

Forget the cryptic mumblings of dark conspiracies, they hit various
stumbling blocks that they couldn't overcome.
<<<<<<

Usually acceptance from a large organisation who a vested interest in
keeping old technology going. Talking of conspiracies, Look at "Who killed
the electric car" on You tube. You are sounding naive.

<<<<<<
Antilock braking was a
basement project that halted when the inventor dropped dead. I worked
as a test engineer on the resurrection of it. There are plenty of
people to pick an idea up if looks promising.
<<<<<<

When it come a paradigm shift in propulsion units they shy away.

<<<<<<
A major problem that you rarely hear mentioned is the quirky or
irritating or scatterbrained personality of some inventors. Great
ideas have fallen because of difficulties with their originators. Mark
Twain lost his fortune that way.
<<<<<

But, as you say, if it is good enough someone else will take it up
eliminating the difficult person.
 
V

vaughn

News said:
Nonsense.


Just about an Wankel and piston engine.

Prove it.
This appears to be superior in fuel consumption.

How so? As far as we know, no IC version has yet been built. Just for a
change, please back up one of your proclamations occasionally with FACTS.
...that is under your hood.

I doubt it.
You understand "proof of concept".

Yes! You build one and then demonstrate it to "prove" the concpt of operation.
Show us an IC Quaiiturbine or SHUT UP.
No in reality. They have even got videos of them pushing cars, etc.

A link would be nice. Regardless, you can't buy one, and there are no
announcements of availability nor test data on the Quasiturbine site for any IC
unit, yet you seem to know all about the gas consumption and even the emissions!


Vaughn
 
LOL


Prove it.


How so? As far as we know, no IC version has yet been built. Just for a
change, please back up one of your proclamations occasionally with FACTS.

He appears to be allergic to facts and reason. I look forward to his
announcement that he's flying off in his Moller Skycar. :)

Wayne
 
N

News

Lose the corporation hangup.
<<<<<<
Look at their record.

I am part of that record of advancement although I only worked for
their small subcontractors. I was able to observe how they operate
without being sucked into it. I don't defend everything about them,
particularly personnel policies.

As for their record of technical innovation, just look around yourself
at the labels on everything. Then visit a second hand store to see
what was available 10/20/30 years ago. See the whirlwind of change??
<<<<<

What is this whirlwind of change you are on about. Computers have made a
massive impact, but have stabilised over 15 years, to the meteoric advanced
of the 10 years before. One auto combustion engineer said to me, that
computers have prolonged the life of un-eco products. Without computers
(management systems, etc) they would have had to have gone back to blank
sheets and start R&D on new products.

The case for Segways is still open.
If you want to seriously investigate the ins and out of highly
economical transportation alternatives then look at small motorcycles.
They fade away as each developing nation's population becomes able to
afford cars.

That is because town cater for cars.In Medieval town in Europe bikes are
still the way to get around.
Only because I won't confirm your prejudices.

I do not have prejudices. Have you looked?
They have a vested interest in making a profit.

You got that right.
When a truly better idea comes along they
adapt or die, because another company
will pull ahead with it.

The auto giants perpetuate the inefficient IC engine. Only a few companies
around the world actually make them. I see none of them embracing new
technology wholescale. Some are into EVs and the likes, in case. Just as a
Stirling engine was about to be sold in an AMC in the 1970s. Imagine 35
years of development of a Stirling engined car? Once oil prices dropped
they dropped the production plan.
Look at
the history of personal computers. Dell
and Apple won, IBM went along
grudgingly, DEC failed because Ken Olsen
guessed wrong. DEC had once
been the brash young startup with their minicomputers.

That was nothing to do with advanced technology, more to do with pricing,
image, etc. DEC machine were as good, if not better, than successful IBM.
Not at all, they just keep very quiet about it.

Chrysler did some good work with a small team on two-stoke units about
15 -20 years ago. The units were feasible, the Neon was scheduled to have
one. All just forgotten and put back in the cupboards. The Japanese were
doing R&D on two-stokes for cars with low emissions and good fuel
consumption, and they thought they needed one in case. They never took up
the two-stroke because of the moped image, nothing to do with technology.

We have seen no advancement on the market with nothing available.

"Ceramic materials for gas-turbine engines have been in development for
decades"

There is nothing new about this. Maybe they should look at things
differently this time. Turbines are in buses now turning gennys power
electric motors. Maybe the need for ceramic turbines has now passed with
advanced motor in wheel and batteries.
GM was burned badly on the Wankel
when they didn't foresee that it
would fail future emissions requirements

The Wankel was a flawed design. Other rotor designs were about which were
superior - even a two-stroke. The worse one was chosen. The flaws are well
known and these can be ironed out if they want to. The Quasiturbine appears
to have done that.

External combustion was a superior way. Steam and Stirling always had
greater potential. How much R&D did Ford do on Stirlings and Steam with
flash boilers?

EVs are now the way forward or advanced hybrids - small companies like Tesla
have shown the way.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08/the_hybrid_mini.php
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html

I still think there is much to be done in compressed air, especially in
brake regen.
 
N

News

...
Whe don't you? You could start but studying the inherent energy loss
involved in using compressed air as a motive source....
Harry K

Good suggestion. Compressed air is the easiest power source to
experiment with if you have only limited tools and knowledge. Used
tanks and compressors are cheap and plumbing leaks don't drip oil.

Get your hands dirty and learn something useful. Our level is so far
above yours you can't even see the underside of it.
<<<<

If at was directed at me you are prattling tripe. The sort of thing a
mechanic would say.
 
N

News

Wow! What an intelligent response...not.
<<<

Thank you, and a very astute response as well.

Considering mine has evidence behind it and yours didnt'...LOL
<<<

Factual evidence? You babble senile opinion.
 
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