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Quasiturbine in « Brash Vehicle Propulsion System ».

V

vaughn

News said:
You looked at your How Things Work books and laughably said it WOULD NOT WORK
at all.

As is typical in the dishonest way you operate, you snipped the below two lines,
so I thought I would restore it for you:
............................................................
Proof? All we need is a link to the post where I said what you claim. Until
then, you still lie.

THE TRUTH:
I first used air motors over 50 years ago, so I KNOW they work and they can be
very powerful for their size. Even I could build an-air powered car that could
drive around a parking lot long enough to dupe a few reporters, investors, and
Internet "experts". Unfortunately, the problem is not the motor, the problem is
in the thermal inefficiencies involved in using compressed gasses as a storage
medium, and the low energy density of the storage.. I gave you reasons why air
is not a good storage medium for an automobile, and why the Aircar could not
work as advertised and (frankly) looked like a scam.. Sure enough! 10+ years
later, you still can't buy an Aircar and they have never yet released any
prototype for 3rd party review to verify their claims. (Don't bother telling us
about Tata, nothing has come of that either. Even Tata is not big enough to
change the laws of physics.).

So far, you are STILL batting ZERO...but that won't stop you from claiming
otherwise...or snipping out facts that you find inconvenient.

Vaughn
 
N

News

vaughn said:
Even I could build an-air powered car that could drive around a parking
lot long enough to dupe a few reporters, investors, and Internet
"experts".

Could you dupe one of the largest auto makers in the world who own Jaguar
and Land Rover?
 
V

vaughn

News said:
Could you dupe one of the largest auto makers in the world who own Jaguar and
Land Rover?

To date, it appears that somebody did.

1) Go to any Tata dealership. Try to buy an air-powered car. None right?

2) OK. Now go to the search box on the Tata home page; enter your choice of
"aircar", "MDI". or "AIRpod". No matter, you will get zero results. Now look
under their "innovations" tab for anything air related. Nothing right?

3) Now go to Google and find all of the rosy 2008 and 2009 articles about how
the new Tata AirCar was soon to hit USA shores. Seen any?

I rest my case.

I also predict that yet again, just as you have done for the last 10+ years of
consistently being wrong; you will claim that somehow you were right all along.

Vaughn
 
N

News

vaughn said:
To date, it appears that somebody did.

Have you contacted this large auto makers and told them they haven't got a
clue because your How Thing Work Books say it can't work?
 
N

News

"Air Tuggers" were and probably still are used on oil drilling rigs as
a means of moving things around. Essentially a small air powered
winch, they are quite powerful for their physical size...however they
are powered by the rig's air system which is supplied by one or two
large air compressor that runs continuously.

Air motors are not new being used in the 1800s in mines. There have been
advances with a rotary design in Australia. This French company made a
hybrid petro/air motor all in the one engine unit - no separate electric
motor and large expensive battery banks adding complexity. They use brake
regen to charge the air tank. It can run on just air, petro or air/petro
with the management system switching it in and out of modes. On low speeds
if enough air in the tank, it uses air and petro switches in at higher
speeds. The air tank can be charged up from a mains socket for cheap
commuting running mainly on air at low speeds.

The engine is claimed to emits one-third the carbon dioxide of conventional
motors of the same size. Cold air, compressed in tanks to 300 times
atmospheric pressure, is heated and fed into the cylinders of a piston
engine. No combustion takes place when in air mode, meaning there is no
pollution,

If the billions spent on batteries was spent on hybrid air/petro engines we
would all be riding around in one by now.

The big makers are going into series hybrids like the Chevy Volt, propelled
only by an electric motor. The Chevy Volt does 60mpg when the IC genny set
is powering the electric motor using a 1400cc engine on a car that would
normally have a 2000cc engine. They optimise the genny engines to near
maximum as possible. The 1400cc engine is an off-the-shelf in stock auto
engine adapted. Lotus have developed a specific ~1000cc 3 cylinder genny
engine which is superior to the Chevy 1400cc engine in efficiency and
power/weight ratio, so would beat the Chevy Volt in mpg. There is no gearbox
to sap power on a petro/electric series hybrid setup.

A large battery bank is used to charge up overnight giving ~40 miles range
and reclaim brake regen.

The Volt is a rather bigger car. They were to have a specially designed
1000cc 3 cylinder unit but backed out in favour of adapting the old 1400cc.
They had the prototypes running using the 1000cc unit - cost and existing
production, etc, were the factors. I think the 1000cc genny engine is still
under R&D as the 1400cc is interim. So, an engine half the displacement does
better in the series hybrid setup. The Lotus genny engine offers even more.

This setup is not new as Ferdinand Porches used it in 1902. Advances in
generators, electric motors and fine tuning an IC engine means it can outdo
an IC only engined car.

These large companies have spent billions on battery R&D and are not going
to turn to compressed air, whether it is better or not.

Also, where there is improvements a lot is in the lith-ion batteries and
smaller more efficient electric motors. Toshiba have set up sales offices
to sell their
latest battery:,,, Read on..... Temperatures as low as -30C Wow! I need one
now!!! :) ......What Toshiba say....

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.

The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.

* Inherently Safe - Advanced Lithium
Chemistry Based on Nano-Technology
Prevents Thermal Runaway Even Under
Extreme Physical Duress
* Fast Charge Rates - Capable of Full
Recharge in < 10 Minutes, 90% in < 5
Minutes
* Superior life - Minimal Capacity Loss,
Even After 6,000 Rapid Charge-Discharge
Cycles
* Greater Usable Capacity - Up to 85%
Usable Capacity Without Compromising
Cycle Life
* High Output Performance - Equivalent
Discharge Rates to those of
Ultra-Capacitors
* Superb Low-Temperature Performance -
Excels at Temperatures as Low as -30°C
* Proven Production - Produced on a
State-of-the-Art Automated Production
Line

SCiBT cells comprising the battery packs will be supplied from Toshiba's
state-of-the-art automated production line in the Saku Factory located in
Nagano, Japan. Initial market development activities in the US will focus on
automotive HEV/PHEV/EV, industrial lift trucks, smart grid/grid storage,
medical equipment, wind and solar power, scooters, and UPS market segments.

Toshiba currently has two battery pack offerings commercially available, a
12 V, 4.2 Ah pack and a 24 V, 4.2 Ah pack. Both offerings are based on
Toshiba's 2.4 V, 4.2 Ah cells and include Toshiba's proprietary battery
management system, which ensures optimum performance and safety. Additional
packs are under development.
--------

This means the full Electric Car is now within easy reach. All it needs is
charging points around. London has them around the city centre and more are
being installed.

BTW, to make a car lighter and get more mpg? Fit helium gas tanks in it.
:)
 
N

News

News said:
Air motors are not new being used in the 1800s in mines. There have been
advances with a rotary design in Australia. This French company made a
hybrid petro/air motor all in the one engine unit - no separate electric
motor and large expensive battery banks adding complexity. They use brake
regen to charge the air tank. It can run on just air, petro or air/petro
with the management system switching it in and out of modes. On low
speeds if enough air in the tank, it uses air and petro switches in at
higher speeds. The air tank can be charged up from a mains socket for
cheap commuting running mainly on air at low speeds.

The engine is claimed to emits one-third the carbon dioxide of
conventional motors of the same size. Cold air, compressed in tanks to 300
times atmospheric pressure, is heated and fed into the cylinders of a
piston engine. No combustion takes place when in air mode, meaning there
is no pollution,

Oh, due to the absence of combustion and, of residues - changing the oil (1
litre of vegetable oil) is only every 50,000Km. The temperature of the clean
air from the exhaust is between 0-15C below zero, making it suitable for use
by the internal a/c system with no need for gases or loss of power. So much
simpler. In congested cities in hot countries this sort of engine makes a
lot of sense.
 
N

News

To paraphrase your statement - "The devil is in the details".

Back on topic. How efficient is the Quasiturbine using compressed air to the
MDI 2 stage air motor?
 
V

vaughn

News said:
Have you contacted this large auto makers and told them they haven't got a
clue because your How Thing Work Books say it can't work?

Have you bothered to read and understand any of the physics involved here?
....Of course you haven't.

Vaughn
 
V

vaughn

News said:
Back on topic.

Why do you keep clipping the inconvenient truths out of other's posts and then
continue attempts to change the subject?. Do you have a problem with the
truth? ...with reality?

Where can I buy an Aircar?

Vaughn
 
N

News

Have you bothered to read and understand any of the physics involved here?
...Of course you haven't.

Vaughn

Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed-air_energy_storage

If you don't know what adiabatic and isothermal mean, stop babbling
and learn some science. PV=nRT

The critical part is that a considerable fraction of the original
energy is lost when the hot compressed air cools to ambient, and again
when it cools as it expands in the engine. Notice that the McIntosh
system is no more efficient than a gas turbine.

If the vehicle has aerospace-quality air tanks and a huge heat
exchanger to reduce the very significant energy loss from adiabatic
expansion it's still only as good as one with lead-acid batteries.

Yes, it works, but it doesn't compete with lithium batteries and the
heat exchanger is a serious extra space and weight burden.

All these alternative projects live or die based on the economics of
production and physics of energy efficiency, which investors and the
general public rarely understand. Con men know that and can make a lot
of money by presenting magic tricks as new advances. If you don't want
to be lumped with them, show verifiable, mathematically sound results.
<<<<<

On thing is clear anything for the USA is negative towards to compressed air
as the US corporations are doing other things.

Motorists, however, have come to expect much more from their cars. That's
why some of MDI's critics think that automakers should be focusing not on
air-powered cars but on pneumatic-fuel hybrids. Unlike cars running on
compressed air alone, the greater power available from pneumatic hybrids
would suit full-function, highway-capable vehicles. And compared with today's
hybrids, whose battery-equipped drivetrains cost three times as much as an
ordinary gasoline engine, pneumatic hybrids could be priced for economy
shoppers and for the developing world. "We have a system that provides 80
percent of the benefit and costs maybe 20 percent extra," says Lino
Guzzella, a professor of mechanical and process engineering at the Swiss
Federal Institute of Technology, in Zurich.

With support from German auto-components giant Robert Bosch, Guzzella is
testingsmall engines that use a 20 to 30L compressed-air tank to rival the
performance of power plants twice their size. That tank is filled with air
pressurized to 20 bars using braking energy or spare engine power. In this
novel variation on conventional turbocharging, that high-pressure air is
then fed back into the engine along with extra fuel to deliver precise
bursts of power. "We are able to burn the fuel in a much more efficient
way," says Guzzella.

MDI is working on an even simpler hybridization scheme, first successfully
employed in 1901 to extend the range of pneumatic torpedoes. The idea is to
add a small fuel burner upstream of the engine to warm the air released from
the tank, increasing the air's volume and thus reducing the amount required
to charge the cylinders. MDI claims this dual-mode system will triple the
AirPod's range, while consuming just 0.56 L/100 km of gasoline (420 mpg).

MDIs original engine was an integral petro/hybrid. The new engine developed
in 2005, which Tata approved and formed a partnership, is simpler. It is
still under development. These small compressed air cars are for niche
markets.
 
N

News

Air motors are not new being used in the 1800s in mines. There have been
advances with a rotary design in Australia. This French company made a
hybrid petro/air motor all in the one engine unit - no separate electric
motor and large expensive battery banks adding complexity. They use brake
regen to charge the air tank. It can run on just air, petro or air/petro
with the management system switching it in and out of modes. On low speeds
if enough air in the tank, it uses air and petro switches in at higher
speeds. The air tank can be charged up from a mains socket for cheap
commuting running mainly on air at low speeds.

The engine is claimed to emits one-third the carbon dioxide of
conventional
motors of the same size. Cold air, compressed in tanks to 300 times
atmospheric pressure, is heated and fed into the cylinders of a piston
engine. No combustion takes place when in air mode, meaning there is no
pollution,

If the billions spent on batteries was spent on hybrid air/petro engines
we
would all be riding around in one by now.

The big makers are going into series hybrids like the Chevy Volt,
propelled
only by an electric motor. The Chevy Volt does 60mpg when the IC genny set
is powering the electric motor using a 1400cc engine on a car that would
normally have a 2000cc engine. They optimise the genny engines to near
maximum as possible. The 1400cc engine is an off-the-shelf in stock auto
engine adapted. Lotus have developed a specific ~1000cc 3 cylinder genny
engine which is superior to the Chevy 1400cc engine in efficiency and
power/weight ratio, so would beat the Chevy Volt in mpg. There is no
gearbox
to sap power on a petro/electric series hybrid setup.

A large battery bank is used to charge up overnight giving ~40 miles range
and reclaim brake regen.

The Volt is a rather bigger car. They were to have a specially designed
1000cc 3 cylinder unit but backed out in favour of adapting the old
1400cc.
They had the prototypes running using the 1000cc unit - cost and existing
production, etc, were the factors. I think the 1000cc genny engine is
still
under R&D as the 1400cc is interim. So, an engine half the displacement
does
better in the series hybrid setup. The Lotus genny engine offers even
more.

This setup is not new as Ferdinand Porches used it in 1902. Advances in
generators, electric motors and fine tuning an IC engine means it can
outdo
an IC only engined car.

These large companies have spent billions on battery R&D and are not going
to turn to compressed air, whether it is better or not.

Also, where there is improvements a lot is in the lith-ion batteries and
smaller more efficient electric motors. Toshiba have set up sales offices
to sell their
latest battery:,,, Read on..... Temperatures as low as -30C Wow! I need
one
now!!! :) ......What Toshiba say....

http://www.toshiba.com/ind/data/news/news_241.pdf
Toshiba International Corporation, January 27, 2010 - Toshiba proudly
announces that it has established US-based sales and technical support for
its new product, the Super Charge Ion Battery, SCiBT. This nano-based
breakthrough lithium technology is noted for its rapid charging capability
of 90% charge in less than 5 minutes, long life of more than 10 years even
at rapid charge rates, and excellent safety performance. The SCiBT product
line will be supported out of the Toshiba International Corporation
headquarters in Houston, Texas and the SCiBT team will focus on business
development activities, battery pack design, prototyping, assembly,
technical support, and service.

The SCiBT battery technology offers numerous performance advantages that
make it an ideal solution for many of today's toughest energy storage
challenges.

* Inherently Safe - Advanced Lithium
Chemistry Based on Nano-Technology
Prevents Thermal Runaway Even Under
Extreme Physical Duress
* Fast Charge Rates - Capable of Full
Recharge in < 10 Minutes, 90% in < 5
Minutes
* Superior life - Minimal Capacity Loss,
Even After 6,000 Rapid Charge-Discharge
Cycles
* Greater Usable Capacity - Up to 85%
Usable Capacity Without Compromising
Cycle Life
* High Output Performance - Equivalent
Discharge Rates to those of
Ultra-Capacitors
* Superb Low-Temperature Performance -
Excels at Temperatures as Low as -30°C
* Proven Production - Produced on a
State-of-the-Art Automated Production
Line

SCiBT cells comprising the battery packs will be supplied from Toshiba's
state-of-the-art automated production line in the Saku Factory located in
Nagano, Japan. Initial market development activities in the US will focus
on
automotive HEV/PHEV/EV, industrial lift trucks, smart grid/grid storage,
medical equipment, wind and solar power, scooters, and UPS market
segments.

Toshiba currently has two battery pack offerings commercially available, a
12 V, 4.2 Ah pack and a 24 V, 4.2 Ah pack. Both offerings are based on
Toshiba's 2.4 V, 4.2 Ah cells and include Toshiba's proprietary battery
management system, which ensures optimum performance and safety.
Additional
packs are under development.
--------

This means the full Electric Car is now within easy reach. All it needs is
charging points around. London has them around the city centre and more
are
being installed.

BTW, to make a car lighter and get more mpg? Fit helium gas tanks in it.
:)

Jayzuzz. and you spew all that ignoring the tremendous energy losses
involved with compressing air.
<<<<

I know you are senile, but it was about mainly electric/hybrids. Pay
attention.
 
V

vaughn

News said:
You mean your know-it-all opinion.

1) You really don't know the difference between physics and opinion?

2) After all these years you still can't buy an AirCar. That is not an opinion,
that is fact. Do you have a problem understanding that difference?
The topic is in the heading.

Wrong. We (meaning you, me, and others) have been talking for several days now
about the AirCar and your refusal to consider reality. You seem to HATE reality
don't you?.
 
N

News

Trhing to evade my point are you?
<<<<

You have never had a point. EVER!
 
N

News

vaughn said:
1) You really don't know the difference between physics and opinion?

2) After all these years you still can't buy an AirCar. That is not an
opinion, that is fact. Do you have a problem understanding that
difference?


Wrong.

You have no idea of current reality. It is not 1966 anymore.
 
V

vaughn

News said:
You have no idea of current reality. It is not 1966 anymore.

I get it! Changing the subject failed to work, so you are trying an
incoherent and non-responsive answer...right?

Vaughn
 
U

Urluberluh

Wow!

What a great motorcycle! This is really the future as I always imagined it.

In 10 years everybody here will be again talking about this historical
cuty motorcycle!

beubye!
UB

Le 2010-06-05 21:38, GillesQT a écrit :
 
U

Urluberluh

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