Please Assist: Help Requested for EDTN

[Richard Dobson]

Oh and just how the !$!#%$ do I learn about this technology when
Creative-Technology -- being the sick f**k it is -- is keeping the
technical info of Creative Music Synth a secret???!!!

You've probably succeeded in putting them off from any help they might
have been able to give. But that wouldn't have been much, becuase the FM
you like so much comes actually from the Yamaha OPL3 FM chip (used in
lots of cards and even on some motherboards of Pentium 2 vintage); not
~designed~ by Creative Labs, just used by them.

You will find loads of OPL3-related info on the net - I even found a
patent about emulating it. There are documents outlining the exact
configuration of FM operator nodes, and how the mixture of 2-operator
and 4-operator tones are organised. Not so long ago, once could
actually buy the OPL3 chip, and use it as the foundation of a diy sound
board (and yes, there is an example of just such a project on the net).
However, it is so old now that supplies have almost certainly dried up.

This will only make sense if you know what the term "operator" means
with respect to FM synthesis. That is what "learn about the technology"
means. Nobody else can do that for you. Suffice it to say, people have
done whole emulations of a full-blown DX7 using Csound. With digital,
FM is FM is FM; if you know the operator structure (which ~is
documented; search on OPL3 and it will pop up pretty quickly) you can
emulate it in software. FM synthesis is one of the most comprehensively
documented synthesis techniques ever. There is a vintage Csound opcode
that does basic 2-operator FM, and of course more elaborate structures
can be built up using groups of basic oscillators.

And, guess what - there is a complete open-source OPL3 emulator
available on the net, in the form of a load of C++ code - look for
"adplug". It is used for a Winamp plugin module to play OPL3 music
files, such as you may be using even now on your Soundblaster. Of
course, to make use of it you have to be comfortable reading, building
and if necessary modifying C++ code.

What nobody on this list can know, since you have never revealed it, is
~exactly~ what you imagine "the technical info" is that you seek so
intently; and what you assume you will do with it when you have got it!

Richard Dobson

 

[Green Xenon [Radium]]

You've probably succeeded in putting them off from any help they might
have been able to give.

The only reason I've ever been rude to Creative Technology is because
they are such jerks. I was nice to them at first but they were mean to
me. So I took revenge but being impolite to them. It's their fault.

But that wouldn't have been much, becuase the FM
you like so much comes actually from the Yamaha OPL3 FM chip (used in
lots of cards and even on some motherboards of Pentium 2 vintage); not
~designed~ by Creative Labs, just used by them.

The FM synthesis was initiated by Yamaha. However, I suspect that
Creative Technology made some alterations to it before putting it on the
SB16 card. These alterations could possibly change the way the synth
sounds. This is something they will not discuss because they are such
sick stingy secretive f--ks.

I am hoping this is not the case. I am hoping the SB16 ISA FM synth is
just the OPL3 given a different name but otherwise is exactly the same
as the Yamaha OPL3 FM chip -- this would really make my life a lot easier.

You will find loads of OPL3-related info on the net - I even found a
patent about emulating it. There are documents outlining the exact
configuration of FM operator nodes, and how the mixture of 2-operator
and 4-operator tones are organised. Not so long ago, once could
actually buy the OPL3 chip, and use it as the foundation of a diy sound
board (and yes, there is an example of just such a project on the net).
However, it is so old now that supplies have almost certainly dried up.

This will only make sense if you know what the term "operator" means
with respect to FM synthesis. That is what "learn about the technology"
means. Nobody else can do that for you. Suffice it to say, people have
done whole emulations of a full-blown DX7 using Csound. With digital,
FM is FM is FM; if you know the operator structure (which ~is
documented; search on OPL3 and it will pop up pretty quickly) you can
emulate it in software. FM synthesis is one of the most comprehensively
documented synthesis techniques ever. There is a vintage Csound opcode
that does basic 2-operator FM, and of course more elaborate structures
can be built up using groups of basic oscillators.

And, guess what - there is a complete open-source OPL3 emulator
available on the net, in the form of a load of C++ code - look for
"adplug". It is used for a Winamp plugin module to play OPL3 music
files, such as you may be using even now on your Soundblaster. Of
course, to make use of it you have to be comfortable reading, building
and if necessary modifying C++ code.

If you read the links to the two messages I posted, you'll find that I
don't like emulation.

I want my synth to be hardware. I want it to be on a chip. It should
freshly-generate its tones in real-time -- just like the SB16 ISA FM
synth [i.e. Creative Music Synth] does.

Creative Music Synth is on an FM chip. It's purely hardware. That's what
I like. I don't want any sort of emulation or softsynths. Emulation stinks.

My Avance sound card uses OPL3 emulation. It sounds disgusting. I
returned the Avance piece-of-human-f**k and got the money back.

Nothing like the the real FM in my older SB16 ISA card.

 

[Richard Dobson]

Green Xenon [Radium] wrote:
...

The only reason I've ever been rude to Creative Technology is because
they are such jerks. I was nice to them at first but they were mean to
me. So I took revenge but being impolite to them. It's their fault.

Doesn't work. They won't feel they have been revenged upon (if they are
even aware of it - email is so easily ignored or dismissed as from a
"crank"), and it only has the effect of diminishing the view others have
of you. Rudeness doesn't work, ever, period. It is always the total
responsibility of the person using rudeness. So it is always your fault.
"Own your stuff". And by investing so much attention in that
company, you have missed the fact that there is shedloads of inforation
about the OPL3 and the SB cards elsewhere.


..

The FM synthesis was initiated by Yamaha. However, I suspect that
Creative Technology made some alterations to it before putting it on the
SB16 card. These alterations could possibly change the way the synth
sounds. This is something they will not discuss because they are such
sick stingy secretive f--ks.

It isn't the sort of chip you can "alter" - but it is of course a
programmable chip at least at the patch level - they may well have
developed their own patches. They are a commercial company, and that
sort of information is their "intellectual property". Did you offer to
sign an NDA? Anyway, rather than waste time asking for such things,
people have figured out pretty much what those patches are, OPL3
emulators and music players are dotted all over the net. You can even
find patent documents with full technical data on the thing, as
published by Yamaha. It really is a no-brainer to find this stuff on the
net.

I am hoping this is not the case. I am hoping the SB16 ISA FM synth is
just the OPL3 given a different name but otherwise is exactly the same
as the Yamaha OPL3 FM chip -- this would really make my life a lot easier.

If its an old card, might be the earlier OPL2. There were various
families of the OPL3 chip made. The main one is, acccording to the net,
marked YMF262, Information here for example:

http://www.oplx.com/opl3.htm

Of course, companies such as Creative bought chips in such quantities it
was easy for them to put their own label on them, for whatever reason.
There is information on the net about that too.

If you read the links to the two messages I posted, you'll find that I
don't like emulation. ...
Nothing like the the real FM in my older SB16 ISA card.

So, either you stick with that card, or build your own, if you can lay
your hands on a viable mountable chip. There is this project here for
example:

http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp_opl3.html


I have for example hung onto an old Pentium machine as it has an ISA
slot, and "you never know when that might come in useful". So far it
hasn't, but...

The differences may not be in the FM side, but in the choice of DAC and
external analog cpomponents. But it is impossible to know what causes
the difference from what you write. Opinions do not impart information.
To account for why the emulators don't stack up you need clinical
objective analyses - different patch setups? Spectrum? Distortion? Needs
a cheap DAC to get the right sound? There are loads of sites discussing
the weaknesses of OPL3 emulation, but they don't waste time throwing
opinions such as "kakaa" around, they ~analyse~ and discuss, with a view
to getting hopefully better emulation, or at least, a clear
understanding of why the original device was so special. Be scientific!

I have done as much as I have time for, as it has amused me to find out
for myself what is available - it's a lot. So the rest is up to you.

Richard Dobson

 

[Green Xenon [Radium]]

No idea. Find a contact there and ask them directly. I never even heard
of them before I did that search. As far as I can see, EDT and EDTN are
in effect synonyms. EDTN seems to be the term provided to users in
consumer equipment blurb (maybe four letters is cool, three is uncool).
Seems to me that once you have got all the info you can about EDT, you
will find you have it for EDTN as well.

Richard Dobson

I contacted them almost a month ago. I still haven't gotten any answerns
on EDTN!

Also, for this past month I've dedicated my research to finding what
EDTN stands
for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I still haven't found s--t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF is going on here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quotes from http://www.teletec.co.uk/minicoms/uniphone.php :

"Baudot, CCITT and EDTN codes"

WTF does this EDTN stand for??????????!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

It's so f-------------king frustrating when I've worked your @$$ off
trying to find out what EDTN stands for in terms of
textphones/telephones and still haven't found out what that stubborn
acronym stands for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the answer is there somewhere [1 out of
10-the-power-10-billion places] but it is extremely difficult to find
because there aren't enough sources to make this answer readily
available. This due to the fact that I am one of the extremely small
minorities of the human population who is actually-interested in EDTN.
The majority simply don't care.

Or [and equally anger-causing for me], the EDTN is a company secret.
Those sick f--ks who make up the company that designed EDTN want to keep
EDTN classified so that no regular person knows about what it "codes"
for or how it works.

I suspect it's probably something that company is going to keep secret
from us. Sick f---scums.

Usually with protocols like EDTN -- where there isn't much info, I might
suspect that someone [or a lot of someones] is/are attempting to cover
up a type of technology.

I then get extremely curious angry and want to forcibly get information
as to how what the EDTN stands for and how it works and possible EDTN
phone numbers. I want to torture the designers -- into providing me the
information. Its only human nature to want something you know you can't
have.

I am so upset now that I want to find whoever designed EDTN and force
them [at oxy-acetylene-blowtorch point] to provide me with information
regarding what EDTN stands for [in relation to textphones], technical
specs of EDTN, and EDTN phones numbers of Switzerland. If they refuse,
I'd like to scorch their skins until they are white and foamy like the
foam produce by heating Parmasen cheese to sizzling point.

 

[Green Xenon [Radium]]

It's so f-------------king frustrating when I've worked your @$$ off

My @$$ not yours!!!! Sorry!!!!!!!! F---king typos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jerry Avins]

My @$$ not yours!!!! Sorry!!!!!!!! F---king typos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take your meds and stay away until they've had time to have an effect.

 

[Randy Yates]

Take your meds and stay away until they've had time to have an effect.

I've been using usenet for 15 years and this may be the first time I
actually take the effort to learn how to kill-file someone.
--
% Randy Yates % "And all that I can do
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % is say I'm sorry,
%%% 919-577-9882 % that's the way it goes..."
%%%% <[email protected]> % Getting To The Point', *Balance of Power*, ELO
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com

 

[Don Bowey]

On 10/28/07 7:53 PM, in article [email protected],

(snip)

Yes, the answer is out there and it can be "determined." I found it and so
can you. Think research.

Learn to seek what you want instead of brow-beating others to do it for you.
Whining won't help either.

 

[Don Bowey]

My @$$ not yours!!!! Sorry!!!!!!!! F---king typos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You were correct the first time.

 

[Green Xenon [Radium]]

Yes, the answer is out there and it can be "determined." I found it and so
can you. Think research.

Really? You found it? Then please tell me what EDTN stands for before I
go insane and continually dream about burning-to-death those who
designed EDTN and formed that acronym.

Learn to seek what you want instead of brow-beating others to do it for you.
Whining won't help either.

I am not demanded that others do my work for me. If I could find the
answer, I wouldn't be posting in the 1st place. However, despite my hard
toilsome efforts, I still found one hint of what EDTN means. So please
inform me. If you don't, then I will keep have dreams of taking revenge
against whoever formed the EDTN acrnomyn only to wake up and realize
that the culprit it still out there teasing me like a mean schoolyard bully.

 

[Green Xenon [Radium]]

Take your meds and stay away until they've had time to have an effect.

If you accidentaly posted something that embarassing, you'd be as upset
as I am and try to let others know you didn't mean to write it.

 

[Don Bowey]

Really? You found it? Then please tell me what EDTN stands for before I
go insane and continually dream about burning-to-death those who
designed EDTN and formed that acronym.


I am not demanded that others do my work for me. If I could find the
answer, I wouldn't be posting in the 1st place. However, despite my hard
toilsome efforts, I still found one hint of what EDTN means. So please
inform me. If you don't, then I will keep have dreams of taking revenge
against whoever formed the EDTN acrnomyn only to wake up and realize
that the culprit it still out there teasing me like a mean schoolyard bully.

Let me rephrase my post for better accuracy: Yes, an answer is out there
but it must be "determined." You will not find EDTN defined. I found the
answer and so can you. Think research.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

I contacted them almost a month ago. I still haven't gotten any answerns
on EDTN!

Also, for this past month I've dedicated my research to finding what
EDTN stands
for

EDT is European Deaf Telephone. It's the phone and protocol used in
Germany and Italy for text telephones. It's based on the V.21
protocol. In the USofA, instead of EDT, we use Baudot.

I have no idea where you got EDTN out of that. It might mean European
Deaf Telephone Network, but I'm guessing.

Now, go away please.

 

[Green Xenon [Radium]]

I still found one hint of what EDTN means.

Sorry. That should read "I still *haven't* found one hint of what EDTN
means."

 

[Green Xenon [Radium]]

"Green Xenon [Radium]" <[email protected]> hath wroth:

I have no idea where you got EDTN out of that. It might mean European
Deaf Telephone Network, but I'm guessing.

Quotes from http://www.teletec.co.uk/minicoms/uniphone.php :

"Baudot, CCITT and EDTN codes"

Here!

 

[Green Xenon [Radium]]

Let me rephrase my post for better accuracy: Yes, an answer is out there
but it must be "determined." You will not find EDTN defined. I found the
answer and so can you. Think research.

Please at least give me some
hints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Richard Owlett]

Please at least give me some
hints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I told you before, I used your his "Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:04:03 -0700"
post and Google to come up with 10 possible sources for information. A
*POLITE COURTEOUS* received an informative response in 2 days.

 

[John Fields]

Please at least give me some
hints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Richard Owlett]

My reply should have read:


As I told you before, I used your his "Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:04:03 -0700"
post and Google to come up with 10 possible sources for information. A
*POLITE COURTEOUS* email received an informative response in 2 days.
^^^^^

 

[Peter K.]

I've been using usenet for 15 years and this may be the first time I
actually take the effort to learn how to kill-file someone.

You have far more patience than I do, then! Or maybe we just read
different newsgroups, apart from comp.dep.

Ciao,

Peter K.