OT: Large LCD monitors for PC

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[...]

However, the stair steps on waveform transitions are, of course, much
more noticeable with the LCD. The CRT didn't show that, looked almost
like on an analog scope. Can't have it all.
I told you that x1080 wasn't enough. ;-) I don't find "jaggies" a problem
anymore.

I've seen the jaggies on super-expensive 1400+ lines LCDs as well. Just
a wee bit smaller. Doesn't bother me much though. I became used to them
because of DSOs.
Software helps, too.

Well, how could it if the traces is skinny? A pixel is a pixel.
Smear it slightly. The eye can do amazing things.

No chance because the software isn't available in source code.

Buy software from someone with a clue. ;-)

I think Mike Engelhardt and his team are among the people with the
highest clue levels when it comes to writing software. In contrast to
some CAD programmers, you know what I mean

Well, I'd certainly agree that there are many degrees of cluelessness. ;-)
OTOH, schematics don't have all that many diagonal lines. I do wish the text
was put in the same place no matter the magnification, though.

Not in all respects is it better than a CRT. But yeah, the size is
almost ideal for the work I typically do.

It's like pulling teeth to get you to admit to that much, so... ;-)

Now mine can do so, too. But a 3ft by 4ft vellum sheet from a client can't.

Bring them up to at least the 20th century, too. ;-)

No need to. They can access the same file server and I can display stuff
wherever needed.

You can do the same with VNC sorts of things, too, though even moreso.

 

[Joerg]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
[...]

I don't care how it looks. All I care about is lots of screen area to
check layouts for EMI gotchas. During design work the wide form factor
has another advantage in that I can keep module spec and CAD open side
by side.
The aspect ratio of 16:9 is all wrong. 4:3 is actually better for schematics
but large screens aren't available. OTOH, 16:10 is better for simulation.
I'll take two of each. ;-)
If I had the space I'd do the same. Ok, my desk is angled and huge but I
need lots of space for books and papers, plus another computer to my left.
<http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=DLB101-PB&cat=MON>
<http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=DLB104-PB&cat=MON>
<http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=DLB105-PB&cat=MON>

Afraid they are too small for the monitor I've got right now.
Looks like Aaron's set-up... 4 x 24" monitors

IOW, a real nerd tower

Even air traffic controllers don't have such screen sizes.

You obviously don't watch the CSI sorts of shows. ;-)

No, definitely not. Enough bloodshed in the news as it is. We only watch
the occasional older movie.

 

[Joerg]

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[...]

However, the stair steps on waveform transitions are, of course, much
more noticeable with the LCD. The CRT didn't show that, looked almost
like on an analog scope. Can't have it all.
I told you that x1080 wasn't enough. ;-) I don't find "jaggies" a problem
anymore.

I've seen the jaggies on super-expensive 1400+ lines LCDs as well. Just
a wee bit smaller. Doesn't bother me much though. I became used to them
because of DSOs.
Software helps, too.

Well, how could it if the traces is skinny? A pixel is a pixel.
Smear it slightly. The eye can do amazing things.

No chance because the software isn't available in source code.
Buy software from someone with a clue. ;-)

I think Mike Engelhardt and his team are among the people with the
highest clue levels when it comes to writing software. In contrast to
some CAD programmers, you know what I mean

Well, I'd certainly agree that there are many degrees of cluelessness. ;-)
OTOH, schematics don't have all that many diagonal lines. I do wish the text
was put in the same place no matter the magnification, though.

I do lots of layout reviews of the more critical kind, meaning lots of
odd shapes, traces, round bends and so on. The most recent one was this
morning, next on starts right now.

[...]

Bring them up to at least the 20th century, too. ;-)

They are in the 21th century. What happens a lot is that there's an
older design dating back almost to the Romans. The client wants me to
modernize it, put uC control on, some extra features. Oh, while at it,
reduce the cost 30% or so. Some of this stuff hasn't seen CAD, ever.

You can do the same with VNC sorts of things, too, though even moreso.

Got to be careful with that, security-wise. But what I really like about
the two-computer setup is that when one crashes I can continue on the
other until reboot/unfreeze is done. Although that has pretty much
solved itself after I ditched Adobe and went to Foxit. No more crashes.
Downside is, no more thumbnail view for PDF files either because Foxit
doesn't have that. There's always a price to pay.

 

[Clifford Heath]

Right now I am happy with 1080 lines. This is a giant step away from how
I started, with an amber 10" or 12" monitor at CGA-resolution. My Wang
laptop back then had a non-backlit LCD with 200 lines and I did huge
schematic on that. No mouse, just with keys, but it did have a built-in
thermal paper printer.

You can debug a program with one LED too, but comparing the value of your
time to the cost of hardware, there's no excuse for any professional not
to have the most suitable computer, especially displays. Sounds like you've
happily joined the 21st century; welcome!

Clifford Heath.

 

[Joerg]

Some of the oldest recollections I have of people with 4+ monitors all
connected to one PC were stock traders... those guys would pay to have
their entire walls covered with graphs and text and news, I guess!

Yes, some of those are a bit weird. I wonder what the average lifetime
of a stock trader is. I mean from birth until the last heart attack.

 

[TheGlimmerMan]

[...]

I'd have to
drive to the theater alone though, my wife doesn't like Westerns because
of all the fights and shooting. Even though we both witnessed a genuine
saloon fight in Mariposa after an EMC test session. When the sheriff had
cleaned up I thought she'd want to go back to the hotel ... but ...
"Let's have another beer". Should have seen all the tourists scurrying
about. They thought this only happened on TV

Haven't been at the movie theater in years. One reason is that it's now
all digital and you can really see the pixels on the screen. Not so nice.

Huh? Must be going to cheap theaters. AMC theater here is fantastic.

Well, what'cha gonna do? I don't want to drive all the way to the Bay
Area to see a movie. I think our theaters are called Signature or something.

Just fucking download it and watch it.

 

[[email protected]]

Yes, some of those are a bit weird. I wonder what the average lifetime
of a stock trader is. I mean from birth until the last heart attack.

Birth to rehab. They don't generally last long.

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[...]

However, the stair steps on waveform transitions are, of course, much
more noticeable with the LCD. The CRT didn't show that, looked almost
like on an analog scope. Can't have it all.
I told you that x1080 wasn't enough. ;-) I don't find "jaggies" a problem
anymore.

I've seen the jaggies on super-expensive 1400+ lines LCDs as well. Just
a wee bit smaller. Doesn't bother me much though. I became used to them
because of DSOs.
Software helps, too.

Well, how could it if the traces is skinny? A pixel is a pixel.
Smear it slightly. The eye can do amazing things.

No chance because the software isn't available in source code.
Buy software from someone with a clue. ;-)

I think Mike Engelhardt and his team are among the people with the
highest clue levels when it comes to writing software. In contrast to
some CAD programmers, you know what I mean

Well, I'd certainly agree that there are many degrees of cluelessness. ;-)
OTOH, schematics don't have all that many diagonal lines. I do wish the text
was put in the same place no matter the magnification, though.

I do lots of layout reviews of the more critical kind, meaning lots of
odd shapes, traces, round bends and so on. The most recent one was this
morning, next on starts right now.

Mechanical software generally has pretty good anti-aliasing. SketchUp is
pretty bad, though. For the price, I'm not complaining.

[...]

Bring them up to at least the 20th century, too. ;-)

They are in the 21th century. What happens a lot is that there's an
older design dating back almost to the Romans. The client wants me to
modernize it, put uC control on, some extra features. Oh, while at it,
reduce the cost 30% or so. Some of this stuff hasn't seen CAD, ever.

That's the first order of business.

Got to be careful with that, security-wise.

That's what firewalls are for.

But what I really like about
the two-computer setup is that when one crashes I can continue on the
other until reboot/unfreeze is done.

My systems don't crash much anymore. Software crashes often but the OS seems
to survive. The worst now seems to be FireFox.

Although that has pretty much
solved itself after I ditched Adobe and went to Foxit. No more crashes.
Downside is, no more thumbnail view for PDF files either because Foxit
doesn't have that. There's always a price to pay.

I haven't used Adobe products for years, even though we have their crap on our
work systems. I *much* prefer PDF XChange over Foxit (and PDF Creator to
print to PDF).

 

[[email protected]]

What do you like about PDF XChange over FoxIt? -- I've never used XChange, but
do have a copy of FoxIt.

Foxit is fuzzy and doesn't render *many* PDFs.

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

Yes, some of those are a bit weird. I wonder what the average lifetime
of a stock trader is. I mean from birth until the last heart attack.

With time-outs for mental breakdowns.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[ehsjr]

[email protected] wrote:


[...]


Of course, slopes in simulations or diagonal lines do not render as
nicely as on the CRT. As expected they are more blocky. However, the
screen is so huge that I do not have to pan as often when checking
layouts and that was the main purpose of the exercise. It's almost like
having two monitors except there's no gap. So keep'em layout reviews
comin'

Now, put two of those together... (actually, I find that x1080 sucks).

Anything larger and the price quintuples. At least. I find that 1080
lines at 18" distance is like the 768 lines I had on the 21" CRT. Just
more lines, which is what I needed for Gerber checks

Western movie tip... go see the new version of "True Grit" ;-)

Is the new one better than the 60's version with John Wayne? I'd have to
drive to the theater alone though, my wife doesn't like Westerns because
of all the fights and shooting. Even though we both witnessed a genuine
saloon fight in Mariposa after an EMC test session. When the sheriff had
cleaned up I thought she'd want to go back to the hotel ... but ...
"Let's have another beer". Should have seen all the tourists scurrying
about. They thought this only happened on TV

We haven't seen it yet (SWMBO doesn't believe anyone can do it better than The
Duke), but I'm told it's a lot closer to the book, rather than being a JW
vehicle. People who like westerns have all raved about it. Hollywood
reviewers don't seem to like it much (surprise, surprise).

Haven't been at the movie theater in years. One reason is that it's now
all digital and you can really see the pixels on the screen. Not so nice.

I don't notice pixelization on the big screen at all, and see a lot less in
the way of the strobe/motion artifacts of film.

We saw The Tourist, on New Years Eve. It was OK, but the $9.50/ticket was a
turn off (we used to get senior tickets for $4.50).

You got younger?

Ed

 

[Joerg]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
[...]

I don't care how it looks. All I care about is lots of screen area to
check layouts for EMI gotchas. During design work the wide form factor
has another advantage in that I can keep module spec and CAD open side
by side.
The aspect ratio of 16:9 is all wrong. 4:3 is actually better for schematics
but large screens aren't available. OTOH, 16:10 is better for simulation.
I'll take two of each. ;-)
If I had the space I'd do the same. Ok, my desk is angled and huge but I
need lots of space for books and papers, plus another computer to my left.
<http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=DLB101-PB&cat=MON>
<http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=DLB104-PB&cat=MON>
<http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=DLB105-PB&cat=MON>

Afraid they are too small for the monitor I've got right now.
Looks like Aaron's set-up... 4 x 24" monitors

IOW, a real nerd tower

Even air traffic controllers don't have such screen sizes.

Aaron is monitoring multiple _network_ traffic.

But there you can't have a dot approaching terrain and then disappearing
.... ;-)

 

[Joerg]

[...]

I'd have to
drive to the theater alone though, my wife doesn't like Westerns because
of all the fights and shooting. Even though we both witnessed a genuine
saloon fight in Mariposa after an EMC test session. When the sheriff had
cleaned up I thought she'd want to go back to the hotel ... but ...
"Let's have another beer". Should have seen all the tourists scurrying
about. They thought this only happened on TV

Haven't been at the movie theater in years. One reason is that it's now
all digital and you can really see the pixels on the screen. Not so nice.
Huh? Must be going to cheap theaters. AMC theater here is fantastic.

Well, what'cha gonna do? I don't want to drive all the way to the Bay
Area to see a movie. I think our theaters are called Signature or something.

Just fucking download it and watch it.

I do not do illegal downloads, out of principle. And I don't have a
Netflix or any other subscription.

 

[Joerg]

[...]

Although that has pretty much
solved itself after I ditched Adobe and went to Foxit. No more crashes.
Downside is, no more thumbnail view for PDF files either because Foxit
doesn't have that. There's always a price to pay.

I haven't used Adobe products for years, even though we have their crap on our
work systems. I *much* prefer PDF XChange over Foxit (and PDF Creator to
print to PDF).

Got to try that since Foxit renders more fuzzy than Adobe. Does PDF
Exchange bring back the thumbnail views in directories (folders)? That
to me is a serious shortcoming of Foxit. If you have to pick worst cases
out of 50-100 EMI plots clicking every one and trying to remember does
get old.

 

[[email protected]]

[...]

Although that has pretty much
solved itself after I ditched Adobe and went to Foxit. No more crashes.
Downside is, no more thumbnail view for PDF files either because Foxit
doesn't have that. There's always a price to pay.

I haven't used Adobe products for years, even though we have their crap on our
work systems. I *much* prefer PDF XChange over Foxit (and PDF Creator to
print to PDF).

Got to try that since Foxit renders more fuzzy than Adobe. Does PDF
Exchange bring back the thumbnail views in directories (folders)?

I never use them and have no idea how they get there, but I just checked and
the thumbnails are there.

That
to me is a serious shortcoming of Foxit. If you have to pick worst cases
out of 50-100 EMI plots clicking every one and trying to remember does
get old.

Everything I do goes through our antique Tek scope and then Excel (via floppy
disc!), so any plots I have are already in Excel. At that point finding the
one I want is the easy part. :-(

 

[[email protected]]

Jim Thompson wrote:

[email protected] wrote:



[...]


Of course, slopes in simulations or diagonal lines do not render as
nicely as on the CRT. As expected they are more blocky. However, the
screen is so huge that I do not have to pan as often when checking
layouts and that was the main purpose of the exercise. It's almost like
having two monitors except there's no gap. So keep'em layout reviews
comin'

Now, put two of those together... (actually, I find that x1080 sucks).

Anything larger and the price quintuples. At least. I find that 1080
lines at 18" distance is like the 768 lines I had on the 21" CRT. Just
more lines, which is what I needed for Gerber checks

Western movie tip... go see the new version of "True Grit" ;-)


Is the new one better than the 60's version with John Wayne? I'd have to
drive to the theater alone though, my wife doesn't like Westerns because
of all the fights and shooting. Even though we both witnessed a genuine
saloon fight in Mariposa after an EMC test session. When the sheriff had
cleaned up I thought she'd want to go back to the hotel ... but ...
"Let's have another beer". Should have seen all the tourists scurrying
about. They thought this only happened on TV

We haven't seen it yet (SWMBO doesn't believe anyone can do it better than The
Duke), but I'm told it's a lot closer to the book, rather than being a JW
vehicle. People who like westerns have all raved about it. Hollywood
reviewers don't seem to like it much (surprise, surprise).

Haven't been at the movie theater in years. One reason is that it's now
all digital and you can really see the pixels on the screen. Not so nice.

I don't notice pixelization on the big screen at all, and see a lot less in
the way of the strobe/motion artifacts of film.

We saw The Tourist, on New Years Eve. It was OK, but the $9.50/ticket was a
turn off (we used to get senior tickets for $4.50).

You got younger?

About half the age I was, evidently. ;-)

 

[Joerg]

[...]

Although that has pretty much
solved itself after I ditched Adobe and went to Foxit. No more crashes.
Downside is, no more thumbnail view for PDF files either because Foxit
doesn't have that. There's always a price to pay.
I haven't used Adobe products for years, even though we have their crap on our
work systems. I *much* prefer PDF XChange over Foxit (and PDF Creator to
print to PDF).

Got to try that since Foxit renders more fuzzy than Adobe. Does PDF
Exchange bring back the thumbnail views in directories (folders)?

I never use them and have no idea how they get there, but I just checked and
the thumbnails are there.

With PDF Exchange as your default PDF program in Windows, and Acrobat
disabled? That's cool!

Everything I do goes through our antique Tek scope and then Excel (via floppy
disc!), so any plots I have are already in Excel. At that point finding the
one I want is the easy part. :-(

That _is_ antique. Not even a garden hose connector (a.k.a. GPIB)?

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:

[...]

Although that has pretty much
solved itself after I ditched Adobe and went to Foxit. No more crashes.
Downside is, no more thumbnail view for PDF files either because Foxit
doesn't have that. There's always a price to pay.
I haven't used Adobe products for years, even though we have their crap on our
work systems. I *much* prefer PDF XChange over Foxit (and PDF Creator to
print to PDF).

Got to try that since Foxit renders more fuzzy than Adobe. Does PDF
Exchange bring back the thumbnail views in directories (folders)?

I never use them and have no idea how they get there, but I just checked and
the thumbnails are there.

With PDF Exchange as your default PDF program in Windows, and Acrobat
disabled? That's cool!

I don't believe I even have Acrobat Reader installed. In the details view,
the type listed is "PDF-XChange Viewer Document".

That _is_ antique. Not even a garden hose connector (a.k.a. GPIB)?

I think it may have that, too. Nothing to hook it to, though.

 

[Joerg]

[email protected] wrote:

[...]

Although that has pretty much
solved itself after I ditched Adobe and went to Foxit. No more crashes.
Downside is, no more thumbnail view for PDF files either because Foxit
doesn't have that. There's always a price to pay.
I haven't used Adobe products for years, even though we have their crap on our
work systems. I *much* prefer PDF XChange over Foxit (and PDF Creator to
print to PDF).
Got to try that since Foxit renders more fuzzy than Adobe. Does PDF
Exchange bring back the thumbnail views in directories (folders)?
I never use them and have no idea how they get there, but I just checked and
the thumbnails are there.

With PDF Exchange as your default PDF program in Windows, and Acrobat
disabled? That's cool!

I don't believe I even have Acrobat Reader installed. In the details view,
the type listed is "PDF-XChange Viewer Document".

Thanks, that is encouraging. That helps in wading through stacks of EMC
plots, which most folks unfortunately store in individual PDF files.
Beats me why, PNG would be so much easier.

I think it may have that, too. Nothing to hook it to, though.

150 bucks can change that. I have the GPIB-USB version of this one and
if works like a champ:

http://prologix.biz/

 

[[email protected]]

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[...]

Although that has pretty much
solved itself after I ditched Adobe and went to Foxit. No more crashes.
Downside is, no more thumbnail view for PDF files either because Foxit
doesn't have that. There's always a price to pay.
I haven't used Adobe products for years, even though we have their crap on our
work systems. I *much* prefer PDF XChange over Foxit (and PDF Creator to
print to PDF).
Got to try that since Foxit renders more fuzzy than Adobe. Does PDF
Exchange bring back the thumbnail views in directories (folders)?
I never use them and have no idea how they get there, but I just checked and
the thumbnails are there.

With PDF Exchange as your default PDF program in Windows, and Acrobat
disabled? That's cool!

I don't believe I even have Acrobat Reader installed. In the details view,
the type listed is "PDF-XChange Viewer Document".

Thanks, that is encouraging. That helps in wading through stacks of EMC
plots, which most folks unfortunately store in individual PDF files.
Beats me why, PNG would be so much easier.

I think it may have that, too. Nothing to hook it to, though.

150 bucks can change that. I have the GPIB-USB version of this one and
if works like a champ:

Crap. Cables cost that much. I *hate* GPIB. ...not that I like Tek's
*incredibly* slow floppy much.

http://prologix.biz/

Hmm, GPIB to Ethernet. Neat. The boss would never go for it.