NEWS: Stanford's nanowire battery holds 10 times the charge of existing ones

[Eeyore]

Well, you might start with these 210,000 citations:

http://www.google.com/search?q=inkj...ient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

You mean all those NONSENSE citations ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Don, despite your obsession with equating everything with gasoline,
PV cells are not gasoline in disguise. This 'net energy' nonsense of
trying to load new PV panels with all the energy 'costs' of the entire
civilization going back to the dawn of time is also completely nutters.

That nonsense aside, who cares what the utilities do? If it's cheap
enough then people will use it regardless of what the utilities are
doing.

An average home (often described as using 24kWh/day) could provide
for all it's electrical needs with a grid-tied system of only around
7kW in most temperate areas of the world. Such a system might only
cost $10K (USD) with $1/Watt panels. Over the 25 year warrantied
life of such a system these panels would produce over 220,000 kWh
at a cost of 4.5 cents/kWh.

Still too expensive for the power generators to use economically though.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

If a power utility cannot make pv deliver net energy when properly full
burden accounted, there is no way in hell an individual can.

I fail to see the logic in that statement. The individual has no
infrastructure to maintain, employees to pay and shareholders to pay
dividends to..

Graham

 

[Don Lancaster]

They are merely people that can use a freaking calculator. Try it
yourself...a simple 4-banger will suffice.

Plunder, pillage, and rape are thankless tasks, but somebody has got to
do them.


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

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[Don Lancaster]

Alex wrote:




Actual capacity is more likely to be ~ 16%. I know of nowhere that insolation is
the equivalent of 8 mid-day hours of sunshine. The Sahara maybe ?





A more realistic number would be 4 hours x 354 days (averaged insolation in very
sunny areas of the USA or Europe) and as little as 3 hours further north. See
any insolation map.

So, 1100 - 1460 kWh

Value @ 10c/kWh = $110 at the low end. So an 11% return on your $1000 invested
except it's not just $1000, you have to add installation costs and the cost of
an inverter to use the electricity. That might bring it down to say a 5% return
which is OK I guess.

Graham

At present, the cost of the synchronous inverter alone in many home pv
installations is often enough to GUARANTEE its consumption of more than
the value of all electricity sent through it.

That is with completely free panels and zero installation costs.

http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energyfun.pdf



--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Erdemal]

Actual capacity is more likely to be ~ 16%. I know of nowhere that insolation is
the equivalent of 8 mid-day hours of sunshine. The Sahara maybe ?



A more realistic number would be 4 hours x 354 days (averaged insolation in very
sunny areas of the USA or Europe) and as little as 3 hours further north. See
any insolation map.

Maps showing insolation in kWh/m².year are a available.

http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/countries/countries-europe.htm

Erdy

 

[Don Lancaster]

What do you think is the magic number for DIY home systems?

Jim Wilkins

Much less than the utility magic number, of course.



--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
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[Don Lancaster]

Don Lancaster wrote:




I fail to see the logic in that statement. The individual has no
infrastructure to maintain, employees to pay and shareholders to pay
dividends to..

Graham

Economies of scale still apply.
Especially synchronous inversion, mnetering, and storage integration.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Don Lancaster]

Don Lancaster wrote:




You mean all those NONSENSE citations ?

Graham

Iffn the right one don't git ya, the left one will.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

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[Eeyore]

At present, the cost of the synchronous inverter alone in many home pv
installations is often enough to GUARANTEE its consumption of more than
the value of all electricity sent through it.

That's as pure nonsense as any hydrogen nut ever posted.

OR it's a great product opportunity.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Maps showing insolation in kWh/m².year are a available.

http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/countries/countries-europe.htm

Thanks. I'd mislaid that link.

As bad as 800kWh in the Scottish Highlands. About 1000 where I live. But maybe as
high as 1800 in southern Spain.

Unfortunately the areas of highest population density in Europe are rarely above 1200.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

They are merely people that can use a freaking calculator. Try it
yourself...a simple 4-banger will suffice.

Windows comes with one. That's what I use when posting here.

Graham

 

[Don Lancaster]

Economies of scale still apply.
Especially synchronous inversion, metering, and storage integration.

While the economies of scale of solar pv are not nearly in the same
league as, say, nuclear or coal, they still remain quite significant.

There is NO WAY an average individual will be able to generate all of
their own power for the cost that a power utility will be able to
deliver to them.

Assuming they are already ongrid. And peaking returns excepted.

If nothing else, the utility will end up leasing you the panels.
For significantly less than the true total cost of ownership.

Thinking otherwise is an utter fantasy.

http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Eeyore]

Eeyore wrote:

Is electricity in the southern US only 10c / KWhr? it's about 10p
here.

Electricity in the USA is often MUCH cheaper than in the UK.

Graham

 

[Steve Cothran]

The likes of Eeyore and Don Lancaster are each infowar members of
their infomercial spewing big-government, big-energy and of their
faith-based puppeteers doing all they possibly can in order to
plunder, pillage and rape mother Earth for all she's worth, and then
some.

They are merely people that can use a freaking calculator. Try it
yourself...a simple 4-banger will suffice.

 

[Eeyore]

Unlike yourself, I'll pretty much go along with the regular laws of
physics and whatever the best available science has to offer.

Except as it applies to hydrogen peroxide of course.

Graham

 

[Don Lancaster]

I would like to see what numbers you used to come to that conclusion.

A present retail price of a seperately bought home synchronous inverter
can easily approach $2500 including installation.

It typically will process four kilowatt hours per day at a retail value
of 80 cents per day or so.

Ten year amortization of a $2500 investment at a 10 percent interest
rate is $1.10 per day or so.

Thus consuming ALL of the value of ALL of the energy sent through it.
And then some. Assuming totally free pv panels.

The longer you run it, the more gasoline you destroy.

http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf




--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Eeyore]

"Eeyore" wrote

So is Gasoline. In the case of gasoline it's because of the tax structure
you people "enjoy." Lucky you!

Well, it helps keep income tax rates dwon.

It it the same with electricity?

No.

Graham

 

[Don Lancaster]

So, where is the "exergy" in this one? It seems to me that you are making a
perverse argument FOR Mook's solar hydrogen or something similar. At least
to the extent the stuff is used as fuel for central station generation and
doesn't add to the infrastructure require by the end user.

Actually there was a factor of two error above. Should be forty cents a
day production.

No particular exergy, as the price of the inverters should eventually
drop into the nine dollar range given a unified and quantity demand.

Latest analysis at http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu08.asp

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Don Lancaster]

There is no upper price for anything. Just because something CAN be
purchased at a high price does not mean you HAVE to purchase it at
that price.

I wish you would have included the size, model or other reference to
your $2500 home syncronous inverter so that I could see if this was a
reasonable price.

I can try to figure backwards from your 4kWh/day. To produce that with
a typical United States figure of 4.5 'sun-hours' (kWh/m^2/day) would
require about 1.2kW of PV panels and maybe a 1kW+ inverter.

A Sunnyboy SWR 1800U Grid Tie Inverter rated for 2kW of PV panels can
be purchased for $1695 and can be expected to produce about 7kWh/day
which, at 14 cents/kWh, is worth 98 cents/day. With a two axis tracker
adding another 40% it would be $1.37 a day.
http://store.solar-electric.com/suboyswr18gr.html

Let's say that with shipping, taxes and installation the total comes
out to $2,000. It looks like HELOC are available at 7.25%. At 10 years
the payments come out to $23.48/month or 77 cents a day.

You would be coming out ahead by anywhere from 21 to 60 cents/day even
if your utility doesn't double their rates within those 10 years.

The longer you run it, the better the return on your investment. If the
device lasts longer than 10 years (quite possible) then it gets even
better.

Anthony

What you are saying is that "nearly all" of the electricity value is
consumed by the inverter in your example, rather than the "more than
all" of mine.

Projecting the life of any pv system beyond two years is fundamentally
insane, owing to the earth shattering changes in technology now taking
place.

Either way, the entire system is clearly a gasoline destroying net
energy sink.

See http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu08.asp for continuing discussion.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com