Need Advice For Packaged Home Alarm Purchase

[Mike]

I'm not surprised, although I know you have (had ?) one until recently. I
don't think alarm system penetration is nearly as dense in Ottawa as most
places in the USA. I'm actually surprised, because in spite of the fact
that we don't have near the violent crime rate as the US, we DO have a
very heavy rate of break and enters ! Either that, or the alarmco's up
here haven't done as good a job as they should in promoting the benefits
of security systems.

After 12 years in this business, I am even more convinced of the
importance of good physical security for a home. I did a takeover the
other day, and in the course of doing my usual "audit" of the home, I
advised the client to improve things like the front door strike, patio
door bar and basement window bars. I also impressed upon him the
importance of putting his decals on right away. Well wouldn't you know it,
the kids entered through his basement window three days later, and cleaned
him out of all of his wife's jewelry. The alarm worked as it should, but
in that very short period between the time the alarm went and the cops
arrived, they'd done their dirty deed ! The alarm sure didn't scare them
much; just made them work a little quicker !! Had there been bars there,
(or maybe even just the stickers he forgot to install), they either
wouldn't have bothered to tamper with the window at all, or more likely,
opened it, and not spent the time to destroy the bars, and simply run off.
Nobody can really know, but he called me back to do the complete job
(including a home safe) after that (you know, "close the gate after the
horse has gone"....((..)

I hate it when that happens; no news is sometimes good news in this
business.....(

Anyway, drop over some time soon for a cold one. It will be good to see
you again in person. I'll continue to refer any medical business that
comes my way over to you. Also, if you want any ADT Ademco takeovers, I
give loads away; might as well send some your way too....

RHC

Nope, I've never had an alarm system. Sorry to learn of your client's
unfortunate break in. I'll immediately install
install the decals. Next week I'm going to get bars for the two basement
windows.

Mike

 

[R.H.Campbell]

Oops ! I was assuming I was talking to "Mikey".... a regular poster here
that is also a friend of mine here in Ottawa, and a fellow colleague in the
business. If it was Mike the recent poster looking for advice who posted, I
apologize ! You must have thought I'd lost my mind....

Anyway, the advice still applies....

RHC

Nope, I've never had an alarm system. Sorry to learn of your client's
unfortunate break in. I'll immediately install
install the decals. Next week I'm going to get bars for the two basement
windows.

Mike

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html

 

[Mike]

Oops ! I was assuming I was talking to "Mikey".... a regular poster here
that is also a friend of mine here in Ottawa, and a fellow colleague in
the business. If it was Mike the recent poster looking for advice who
posted, I apologize ! You must have thought I'd lost my mind....

Anyway, the advice still applies....

RHC

No problem and thAnks for the useful advice.

Mike USA

 

[Robert L Bass]

This afternoon I spoke with a rep from ASG alarms. To alarm three doors and

five windows cost about $654. plus key fob alarm alerter. Costs $70.00 per
window to alarm wireless. Can burglars easily defeat the wireless window
alarms?" Three year contract and I don't own the equipment. I'm looking for
an independent contractor.

I'm unfamiliar with the going prices in your area so I can't
speak to that issue. The idea of paying that much for an
installation where you will not own it, however, should send up
some serious red flags. If it's a lease, why should you pay a
purchase price?

As to the matter of defeating wireless, yes, it's possible.
However, modern wireless technology employs supervision
strategies which help the system detect jamming, etc. Frankly,
it's far easier to hit the neighbor's house that has no alarm at
all than to bother trying to get past a wireless alarm system in
your home. Furthermore, to defeat the system the would-be would
need some prior knowledge of the specific hardware you employ.

Wireless isn't 100% as secure nor as reliable as hard-wired
technology. There are simply more RF components that can fail
for a given point of protection. There are batteries to replace
from time to time.

None of the above is the biggest drawback to wireless alarms.
The real problem is in the area of long-term serviceability.
Hard-wired door and window sensors, motion detectors, glass break
sensors and smoke detectors are generally cross-compatible with
all hard-wired alarm systems, regardless of make or model.
Almost all wireless detectors only work with the same series from
the same manufacturer's control panels. Eventually, the
manufacturer will discontinue support for virtually any product
line they currently carry. DSC is a prime example of what can
and does go wrong with wireless. As a cost-cutting measure they
decided to change from 900 MHz to 433 MHz wireless. Within less
than two years after the change they stopped supporting existing
900 MHz systems, leaving tens of thousands of customers with
systems that cannot be fully supported. If a 900 MHz DSC sensor
fails or if the customer needs to add a door or window, tough
luck. They need to rip out all of the existing wireless
detectors and receivers, the major portion of their systems, and
replace it all. Imagine what that means to a dealer who offers a
three year warranty.

OK, rant mode = OFF. :^)

If you don't plan to live in the house for more than a few years
and you're comfortable with the possibility that the system may
become obsolete, wireless does have a strong attraction. Because
no wire pulling is involved, the dealer can employ semi-skilled
labor (unfortunately, though it is 100% true, this is certain to
bring a rain of rage from certain wireless only installers).

For the DIYer, it's a snap installing a wireless system. That
said, in most cases even existing homes can be effectively wired
by a homeowner with a little patience and a modicum of tool
skills. You've not mentioned DIY so I presume that's of no
interest to you. If that is not correct, have a look at my
website. Regardless whether you decide to DIY or employ a
professional installer, you'll get an idea what these systems
actually cost and a broad overview of the different types of
systems available.

Either way, best of luck.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

 

[Mike]

Very interesting and useful post. Can DIY systems be monitored remotely
by a CS?

Mike

 

[Frank Olson]

Very interesting and useful post. Can DIY systems be monitored remotely
by a CS?

Yes. Most independent CS's (and many owned by actual alarmcos) will
deal with registered (licensed) dealers. There are a few companies out
there that offer service direct to the the DIY, but if you examine their
FAQ's carefully, you'll often find that you're not actually dealing
direct but through a dealer. A prime example is http://nextalarm.com.
If you don't have control (the installer code) of your alarm system
they'll send you an "add-on device" that is essentially an independently
programmed communicator with instructions on how to install it or the
number of a local dealer to call that will install it for you. The UL
listed stations that NextAlarm deals with have the same safeguards in
place than the independents I first mentioned. UL listed stations won't
allow a DIY to program their own systems to call their receivers. If
you think about it for a moment, you'll understand the reason why.

 

[Robert L Bass]

Very interesting and useful post. Can DIY systems

be monitored remotely by a CS?

Yes. DIYers can contract directly with some central stations or
go through a local dealer for their monitoring. The difference
is that if you install it yourself you shouldn't be paying an
inflated price for monitoring to make up for "loss leader" prices
on a professional installation.

DIY isn't for everyone. If you're considering that option,
you're welcome to call and I'll explain what you'll need to buy,
what tools you will need and what is involved in the work. It's
not rocket science. You need a bit of patience to get the hang
of some of the tasks. In addition to running a small, central
station alarm company for 24 years, I've operated an online DIY
store for about nine years (some of that time overlaps as I ran
both businesses side-by-side for a while). In all that time I
know of two cases where DIY clients actually gave up and hired a
pro to help them finish.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

 

[mikey]

I'm the one who thinks you've lost your mind.
But we can still do the beer thing, have to raise one to Harper.

 

[R.H.Campbell]

Yeah, at least with someone sensible like Harper in control (for who knows
how long), my guns are safe ! But with a minority govt, his chances of
lasting more than 2 years are slim. During that time, the Liberals will
elect another leader, get their act together once again, and win the next
election with a majority, and around we go again.

I'm afraid with the centralization of our population in urban centres,
Canada has gone so far to the left, it will never recover permanently. We
are unfortunately seeing only a temporary swing back to the middle !

Then the left wing, low life, Liberal shit starts all over again....((

RHC

I'm the one who thinks you've lost your mind.
But we can still do the beer thing, have to raise one to Harper.

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html

 

[Frank Olson]

DIY isn't for everyone. If you're considering that option,
you're welcome to call and I'll explain what you'll need to buy,

That's *if* he's answering the phone...

what tools you will need and what is involved in the work.

Uh-huh... Don't forget to mention how handy it is splicing your
contacts in the attic to avoid keeping the front door open too long...

It's
not rocket science. You need a bit of patience to get the hang
of some of the tasks.

It would help if you were doing it with an experienced installer
helping. I'd suggest finding someone local that's amenable to giving
you a hand.

In addition to running a small, central
station alarm company for 24 years, I've operated an online DIY
store for about nine years (some of that time overlaps as I ran
both businesses side-by-side for a while). In all that time I
know of two cases where DIY clients actually gave up and hired a
pro to help them finish.

And your math still sucks... You lived in Florida while you were on
parole from 1979 to 1984. Lived in CT from 1984 to 1992 (or '93) and
from 1996 to 1999. Moved back to Florida in 1999... So.. how is it
you could have run a "small central station alarm company for 24 years"
again?? Even if you took 1980 as the "start" of your business
(according to the BBB it was January 1980) and 1999 as the last year you
were directly involved in "running" it, that's only 19 years... I'd
love to see you explain how it is you started a "central station alarm
company" with absolutely no training or experience in the business
before and what must have amounted to close to a "zero" customer base...
But I guess that would be pretty easy to do considering who you are
(the biggest liar and fraud in Usenet). The CS receiver on your
nightstand must've been a bit of a pain in the wee hours of the morning.
I just love the "kicks and giggles" you dish out, Robert...

Let's see... fourteen complaints at the BBB and four seperate online
stores... Tsk!!!

 

[Mike]

I wonder a what point DIY becomes a deep sinkhole form time and expense
for me at least.

Mike

 

[Mike]

Yes. DIYers can contract directly with some central stations or
go through a local dealer for their monitoring. The difference
is that if you install it yourself you shouldn't be paying an
inflated price for monitoring to make up for "loss leader" prices
on a professional installation.

DIY isn't for everyone. If you're considering that option,
you're welcome to call and I'll explain what you'll need to buy,
what tools you will need and what is involved in the work. It's
not rocket science. You need a bit of patience to get the hang
of some of the tasks. In addition to running a small, central
station alarm company for 24 years, I've operated an online DIY
store for about nine years (some of that time overlaps as I ran
both businesses side-by-side for a while). In all that time I
know of two cases where DIY clients actually gave up and hired a
pro to help them finish.

I checked out your website. At this point, DIY appears to too much of an
investment in time.

Mike

 

[Robert L Bass]

I checked out your website. At this point, DIY appears

to too much of an investment in time.

No problem, Mike. When you get your bids in from professional
installers, ask for all makes and models of the equipment they
will use. Let me know what they are proposing and I'll tell you
what I think of the hardware.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

 

[Robert L Bass]

I wonder a what point DIY becomes a deep sinkhole

form time and expense for me at least.

Most of the DIYers I talk to say they do it because they enjoy it
or because they couldn't find a dealer they liked. Relatively
few do DIY solely to save money.

If you enjoy this sort of thing, it might be for you. If you
don't mind spending the time, same answer. If it's primarily a
matter of getting the job done efficiently, go with a
professional. Either way, choose carefully. If I can help with
advice on your proposals I'd be happy to do so.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

 

[alarman]

Oh and by the way, I notice that when you can't refute what I post, you
find it convenient to not respond.

And I notice that when you can't successfully persuade someone with facts
via rational debate, you become abusive. So what's your point?
js

 

[Doug L]

You may as well ask the cashier at Walmart which is the better TV to
purchase, they, like you, know little about the products they sell other
than the price.

Doug

 

[Frank Olson]

You may as well ask the cashier at Walmart which is the better TV to
purchase, they, like you, know little about the products they sell other
than the price.

Doug

Walmart sells TV's??

 

[Jim]

And I notice that when you can't successfully persuade someone with facts
via rational debate, you become abusive. So what's your point?
js

What you notice is irrelivant. What you consider abusive comes from
your bad experiences due to your unsavory oral habits.

Considering that you never participate in any dialog, and didn't offer
any help or information in this thread, except making smart ass remarks
to and about people ...... I'd ask you what YOU're point is ........
but I know how you'd interpret that.

 

[Mr.Double-sided tape]

Mike,
Email me a rough description of the system you are looking for
plus as much about the house (basement finished-unfinshed, # of doors,
1st floor rooms, etc), and I will help you design a system, price it
out amongst the available chocies, and forward you the information.
We'll look at various benefits/downfalls between choosing a national or
local co. Hopefully we'll find the best fit for your budget without
sacrificing safety.


Tom

 

[alarman]

What you notice is irrelivant.

As is what you notice.

What you consider abusive comes from
your bad experiences due to your unsavory oral habits.

Nope, it comes from observing crude, overbearing misfits like you.

Considering that you never participate in any dialog, and didn't offer
any help or information in this thread, except making smart ass remarks
to and about people ...... I'd ask you what YOU're point is ........
but I know how you'd interpret that.

I will participate in dialog if and when I please, and not when you think
it's relevant, pop. As I've said before, you don't run anything here but
your mouth.
js