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Need Advice For Packaged Home Alarm Purchase

M

Mark Leuck

If you think that you need to study more psychology, you haven't quite got
it yet
 
M

Mark Leuck

Mike said:
I'd like to go with a small local co but at this point I'm getting leary of
giving out my address to strangers.

You will do that no matter who you go with
So far, I've given it to two corp companies and the smaller one have all
insisted on looking the house over
before they'll even talk prices. I'm going to call back a couple of the
small one that didn't call back. I assume
a lot of the have ansering service.

Mike

I should HOPE they come out before quoting prices
 
F

Frank Olson

Mark said:
I should HOPE they come out before quoting prices


Awwww! C'mon Mark... Everyone here knows that a couple of hours on the
phone and they won't need to come out. You can "DIY". It isn't rocket
science. :)
 
J

Jim

news01 said:
Just got a quote over the phone from Slomin's Shield
wireless system

Mike I'm gonna try and advise you as best as I can here.
First, I'm from your area. I know Slomins and the market and I've been
in it for over 36 years. You can take the info or leave it.

One free "basic system NAPCO" 2 door alarms, 1 standard (LED I guess)
keypad
2 motion sensors
155.00 1 smode detector
149.00 1 key fob
80.00 1 extra door alarm
86.00 three months rent up front
20.00 police alarm register
27.00 electrical permit
79.00 annual warranty
310.00 third year of three year contract otherwise I need to sign a
five year contract.

about $900.00 and I own the equipment - three year committment

The system that Slomins installs is among the cheapest systems that
Napco makes. There will be no room for expansion and it has little if
any options. The keypads are LED. The keyfob is a $40 dollar item and
takes no time to install. The police alarm register is exactly what? Is
it a annual recurring charge? If you live in Nassau county you have to
apply for a police dept alarm permit and a fire permit a $75.00 and
50.00each.ThereforeIdonthaveacluewhatthe50.00 each. Therefore I don't have a clue what the 20.00 police
register and $27.00 electrical permit are for. If you don't live on
Long Island, I don't know what the municipal fees are. If the above
fees are ligitimate in your area, you may want to find out if you have
to pay permit fees above what they are asking for.

Why wouldn't you get at least a one year warrantee on a new
installation? Why should you have to pay for a warrantee on new
equipment that's warranteed for 18 months by the manufacturer? If the
fee is for extended coverage AFTER the initial FREE warrentee, does it
cover you for both the three year and and the addtional two year term?

Again, if you live on Long Island you can get monitoring for less than
$25.00 per month and don't forget there's tax on monitoring service in
NY. In my opinion, Slomins isn't a bargin and your dealing with a
lickum-stickum type alarm system. They're going to put your main panel
in the front closet with the keypad on the other side of the wall of
the closet. Likely no ground wire or RJ31X jack either. What about your
basement? What kind of protection do you have when you're at home,
sleeping? Do you have any animals that have run of the house when
you're not home?

Slomins is going to be in and out of your house in less than 4 hours.
and you'll only get to know how to arm and disarm the panel an told the
rest of the information is in the handbook. Anyone who will give you a
price over the telephone isn't taking the security of your home and
family seriously. I would NEVER give a client a price over the
telephone. To do so shows a decidedly unconcerned, "cookie cutter"
attitude towards security. Certainly there are end users out there who
think of it the that way, and low and behold, there's companies like
Slomins to fill the bill. So you can't take anything away from them. If
you want security that is concerned about what YOU are concerned about,
then get in a professional who will survey your home, find out what
your concerns are and provide you with an estimate that will meet those
needs. If you're going to "bargin hunt" then likewise you're STILL not
getting your moneys worth by going with Slomins. If you can negotiate
with an independent alarm installer, I'm sure you can work something
out where you can have him install security for what your concerns are
at the present, but knowing that you want to enhance it in the future,
you can make provisions to have the next level of control panel
installed now. The increase in the dealer cost for the hardware from
the lowest to the highest level panel is only about $100 to maybe
$150.00. There's a little (but not That much) more labor to install a
larger panel but not enough to break the bank and the better keypads
can get expensive. Most of the cost of a system is in the labor to
install the detection devices( if a wired system) or if wireless, the
cost of the transmitter devices. If you can go with hardwire, it's the
preferred system but keep in mind, newer systems can be wired, wireless
or both. So, for instance, if you've got a room that's on a slab with
a cathederal ceiling, with no way to get a wire to openings without
cutting sheet rock, a couple/few transmitters can be used for that area
only. So don't let anyone tell you that you only can have wired OR
wireless. Wireless is less disruptive and cleaner to install and when
installed to the best standards, there's no difference in how you will
perceive the systems operation as compared to a wired system. As far as
reliability is concerned, don't be put off by the ridiculous claims
that component failure is of any concern. Electronic components have
life expectancies ranging in the hundred year and more range, now days.
Changing the batteries every 3 to 7 years isn't that much of an
inconvenience or cost and as far as becoming obsolete, I'm still
monitoring and servicing wireless alarms systems that were installed
in the 70's and are no longer manufactured. Over 25 years. Parts are
obtained by alarm installers from their own old installations that are
replaced by newer ones and installers trade parts from old systems all
the time, in this area.

You've got to decide how much security you want and getting a number of
estimates from various sources, as well as the information you're
obtaining here is going to put you in the great spot of being an
informed consumer.
 
M

Mike

Good point, there'sa tremedous amount of costruction going on and I suspect
the good ones
are involved in that.

Mike
 
M

Mike

Russell Brill said:
I never bid a job without looking the site over... The only Dealers that
do that are the dummies and mass marketers..... Also, most small alarm co
owners like to meet potential customers to gage the Pain-In-The-Ass
Factor... PITAF questions: Does the customer Bitch and Moan about
everything under the sun during the site survey? Is he/she a price fanatic
(A.K.A. CHEAP)? Does the customer act as if the Dealer is his/her employee
(a bossy prick)... If the answer is yes to any of the PITAF questions,
than a price increase is in order (or a pass)... Oh, almost forgot this
one: BIG RED FLAG, hi my name is ______, I'd like to get a quote for a
home alarm, I just need something simple (A.K.A. CHEAP), it's an easy
installation, so it shouldn't take to long or cost very much, please call
me back ASAP... YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYa, I'll jump right over to the phone and
return your call........ ha ha ha ha ha...

So Mike, why do you think the locals aren't returning your calls??? Is
there a RED FLAG over your head???

I' never talked to them in the first place I call leave a message with an
answering service
then might get a call back the next day or so or might not. Of the ones I
spoke with they call back after initial call or interview.
I see it as the good ones do what they what to do. I suspect the big money
is in arming the big mcmansions in the
county. If ADT didn't charge $42.99 a month monitoring fee it would've been
a done deal. Oh, and I'm in my office and 25% of my work day in the field,
such as it is, the rest of ther day.

Mike
 
M

Mike

Never asked for a quote over the 'phone just about about equipment and
policy
I don't nickel and dime people.

Mike
'
 
A

alarman

Jim said:
Yep, you sitting there with your mouth open ...... just waiting for

You're so predictable. Do you ever have an original thought?
js
 
J

Jim

alarman said:
You're so predictable. Do you ever have an original thought?
js

Why sure!

It just that you're so stupid you wouldn't recognize one if you
swallowed it.

But here's one for you.

Paint your bald headed, fat round face, yellow and you could be the
poster boy for the (-:Happy Face :)

Then just stand on your favorite corner and I'll guarantee you'll
attract more hits.
 
M

Mike

Got a return call from Monitronics today. They'll install a honeywell lynx
system which replaces the ademco system. The pricing was pretty good and
monitoring fee starts at $26.00 for burgalry and medical fire is , I think,
is $3.00 more a month. What's the verdict on the Honeywell Lynx System?
Anybody know of Capital Defense security company? They'll install the
system. I only got a rep's cell phone #., Will call back tomorrow and
learn more about the company.

honeywell lynx system
http://www.home-technology-store.com/lynxren-kt3.aspx?ID=898

I.Q. certified companies in my area:
action system corp,JOHN CHETELAT, 410-325-3200

Mike
 
M

Mike

it appears the Honeywell Lynx System panel and keypad are in one piece. what
are the pros/cons of that design?

Mike
 
M

Mike

What?? Am I the only one that still does windows?
Most of the companies I talked with say movement sensors are enough. What's
your opinion?

Mike
 
J

Jim

alarman said:
snip the same old drool

You are the oldest eight year old I know.

js

And you?

What's your fucking problem?
YOU'RE the one who's always got to butt your fat lips into other people
business. I don't say a damn thing to you but you've always got some
wise ass remark to make to me. So **** you. YOU shut your fucking dick
sucking lips and you won't have anything to complain about. YOU'RE the
one that should grow up, you fat fucking goof drooling idiot.

Don't give me any of your stupid shit and you wont get the same back.

End it or not.
 
J

Jim

Mike said:
Most of the companies I talked with say movement sensors are enough. What's
your opinion?

Mike

Motion detectors are not a source of primary protection. First line of
defense is perimeter doors and windows. Next line of defense is motion
detectors which can be activated when you are not home. With motion
detectors only, how would you expect to arm your system and be able to
move around while you are home? The most important time to arm your
system is when you and your family are in it. With motion detectors
only, the intruder is already in your home before he's detected. If you
were breaking into a house and you opened a window or door and the
alarm tripped what would you do? If you were breaking into a house and
you opened a window or door and nothing happend, until you got all the
way in the house, do you think you'd stop and turn around or go for it.
Up to the master bedroom and out. What if you were home sleeping? Would
you want some to be detected after they had gained entry to to your
home?

It's all about obstacles. Good lighting. Keep shrubs low. Make the
house look lived in. Good security lighting. Good strong door and
window locks. THEN the alarm system is the back up for all that. Your
first goal is to keep them away from the house to begin with. An alarm
warning sign, or decals. With the perimiter of the house wired, they
know first thing that you've got an alarm. With motions only, someone
could get into the basement and wait for you to come home. If you're
going to have a security system don't skimp. No one can predict how
someone is going to attempt to gain entry.
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Mike, I'm going to wade into the fray again ! These "all in one" systems
such as the Ademco Lynx, DSC Envoy and Paradox Magellan were originally
designed for smaller locations like apartment buildings and trailers. They
are easy to install and as such, often used. There is usually only capacity
for one or two hardwired zones, with the balance being wireless zones. The
whole alarm is in one box, keypad, motherboard, enemic siren, and dialer. As
such, destroy the unit and the whole alarm is kaput !

Probably the biggest thing to watch out for is that the installing company
doesn't just plug the panel into a telephone jack rather do the correct job
of installing line exclusion. Either way though, simply pull the jack out
and the panel is off line. Bottom line, they are much more "vulnerable" than
a conventional hardwired alarm to being disabled by someone with few skills.
However, in any "real world" situation, I have to wonder how often this sort
of thing would actually happen, given the "smarts" of the average home
burglar.

There is one unit made by GE with the dialer mounted as a separate unit in
the basement, which provides the panel the opportunity to dial out the alarm
signals even as the wall mounted unit is disabled. Speaking only for myself,
that is the only one of the units I would even consider installing for a
client !!

Personally, I still believe the best system design is a full, hardwired,
conventional, perimeter system backed up with motions and glassbreaks, using
wireless components only when absolutely needed. Unfortunately, it is also
the most expensive !

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

Mike said:
it appears the Honeywell Lynx System panel and keypad are in one piece.
what are the pros/cons of that design?

Mike


I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
 
R

Robert L Bass

Most of the companies I talked with say movement sensors
are enough. What's your opinion?

I always offered full perimeter protection on my installations.
It takes more time and costs more but it helps detect the thief
*before* he gets in. Protecting the windows reduces the
likelihood of a confrontation and all but eliminates the thief
grabbing something as he runs off.

Also, if you're home and asleep when the alarm goes off you've
got a better chance to deal with it if he's still outside than if
he's already in the house.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
 
R

Robert L Bass

Got a return call from Monitronics today. They'll install a
honeywell lynx system which replaces the ademco system.

That doesn't sound right. Lynx is an Ademco product. Honeywell
bought Ademco. The other Ademco products are also part of the
Honeywell line. What Ademco system are they claiming is being
replaced by the Lynx?
The pricing was pretty good and monitoring fee starts at $26.00
for burgalry and medical fire is , I think, is $3.00 more a month.

Fire signals typically make up less than 0.5% of all alarms.
There's no justification for charging an extra $3 per month for
monitoring fire.
What's the verdict on the Honeywell Lynx System?

Unless they disable the on-board sounder and install a separate
keypad and siren, nix it. The system can be defeated in a few
seconds before it ever gets a chance to report.
Anybody know of Capital Defense security company? They'll
install the system.

They're the functional equivalent of an ADT "authorized dealer"
except that the monitoring is being done by Monitronix. I know
of at least one Moni dealer who operated for years without a
license with Monitronix' full knowledge and consent. During that
time the dealer ripped off hundreds of families in Connecticut.
He actually signed on with Protection 1 at first, just to get
Honeywell's distributor to sell to him (they at first refused as
he had no credentials and no experience). Once he got in he
quickly switched to Moni where he was allowed to continue
defrauding people in CT until he skipped out.

Based on that dealers actions, of which Monitronix was fully
aware, I could not recommend them.
I only got a rep's cell phone #., Will call back tomorrow
and learn more about the company.

Be very careful.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
 
A

alarman

Mike said:
it appears the Honeywell Lynx System panel and keypad are in one piece. what
are the pros/cons of that design?

The "pro" is that it's easier for the installer. The "con" is that all you
need to do is rip it off the wall and it's disabled.
Are they f**king kidding with that shit?
js
 
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