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P

Patrick Scheible

John Larkin said:
It's the disc/disk thing. It's done both ways. Actually, it makes
sense to distinguish between the Olympic thing you throw, and a
computer storage gadget; ditto a bit of a seed versus some silly code.


among several services, so the microkernel doesn't

The tightly-coupled hundreds-of-cores-on-a-chip things are coming;
silicon and interconnect issues make it so. Nobody here seems much
interested in how they might best be used. Been there, done that,
nothing is ever new, move on, nothing to see here; is the entire
computer community this dull?

Cue the story of the assembly line foreman who was sitting around with
his feet up daydreaming. When his manager asked him why he wasn't
doing any work, he threw a wrench into the machinery, saying "Now I'm
busy. Are you happy?"

-- Patrick
 
R

Roland Hutchinson

John said:
Not so. It can be used to design, analyze, clarify and document
hardware logic design, VHDL, even relay logic and analog design.

Proper pseudocode looks a lot like BASIC.

Proper psuedocode looks a lot like Algol, to which it is, in a sense, a
successor language.

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
 
C

Capt. Cave Man

N/C flame cutters.

John

Did not any of you read his sig? Duh.

There is a mirror array down south that does exactly what I described by
focusing the sun from several mirrors, down to said 8 inch spot. Many,
many thousands of degrees.
 
T

TheQuickBrownFox

40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970

Jeez... it was still ARPANET then.

Damn! You go girl(s)!
 
C

Capt. Cave Man

That's because no matter how powerful it is, some PHB will put off
upgrading until the wheels come off.


Bwuahahahahahahahaha!

See, you are good for something. A nice laugh.
 
R

Roland Hutchinson

John said:
On Sun, 31 May 2009 08:23:25 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer


It's the disc/disk thing. It's done both ways.

???

Could you kindly cite a reputable publication that uses a spelling other
than "kernel"?

NB this doesn't count:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernal_Korn

PS
"linux kernal" => "about 42,100" Google hits
"linux kernel" => "about 11,800,00" Google hits

for a Richoux ratio in excess of 280:1.

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
 
R

Roland Hutchinson

John said:
jmfbahciv said:
John Larkin wrote:

[snip...] [snip...] [snip...]

She said "really." She's being a timeshare snob just because I had a
PDP-11 and she had a VAX.

John


There is no reason to be insulting. You don't know what you're
talking about now.

/BAH

It should be spelled "VAXX", because we all *know* it is a "four letter
word". ;-)

I worked in one place that had two VAXes, "Max the Vax" and "Maxine
the Vaccine."

Do you mean to say that there was a place with more than one of them that
didn't use the plural form "VAXen"?

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
 
R

Roland Hutchinson

jmfbahciv said:
I don't about that. Certainly the ones who keep touting trying to
emulate human thinking fail. I still don't understand why anybody
would want to build gear that emulated human-style thinking.

Well, for one thing, whenever they have set a goal of doing some non-human-
style thinking, and reached the goal successfully, someone has moved the
goal posts and declared that it wasn't artificial intelligence.

For another thing, if you want to understand how something is done, try
teaching a machine to do it. Lots of people are interested in how thinking
is done.

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
 
J

Joe Pfeiffer

Roland Hutchinson said:
???

Could you kindly cite a reputable publication that uses a spelling other
than "kernel"?

My sense is that it's spelled both ways in the same alternate universe
in which microkernels are a new concept.
 
R

Roland Hutchinson

Joe said:
My sense is that it's spelled both ways in the same alternate universe
in which microkernels are a new concept.

I see.

Rule of thumb: Never form conclusions based on a conversation that begins
(or is seen, as the conversations progresses, to have ought to have begun)
with "What color is the sky where you are?".

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
.... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
 
C

Charles Richmond

Joe said:
Makes a difference to when you lose your job, and whether you're
eligible for unemployment while you look for the next one.

I did *not* say you should quit. It is *not* clear whether refusing
to train your replacement would qualify for the company to fire you
"for cause". There are several rules governing whether the company
can claim that...
 
C

Charles Richmond

Dave said:
The systems have way more horsepower than the average (office apps &
web & email) single user needs. If you only drive short hops in town
and have a 400HP car, adding a second engine doesn't actually gain you
anything.

There *are* currently some applications that require a lot of power.
(Think of Photoshop...) When more horsepower or memory is available,
*someone* usually comes up with applications that can make good use
of it. It's *not* always just used to "pump up" the eye-candy.

Twenty years ago it was *not* practical to store videos and large
digital photos on your personal computer. The expanded memory, faster
CPU's, and larger hard disks make it practical today.
 
C

Charles Richmond

John said:
jmfbahciv said:
John Larkin wrote:
[snip...] [snip...] [snip...]

She said "really." She's being a timeshare snob just because I had a
PDP-11 and she had a VAX.

John


There is no reason to be insulting. You don't know what you're
talking about now.

/BAH
It should be spelled "VAXX", because we all *know* it is a "four letter
word". ;-)

I worked in one place that had two VAXes, "Max the Vax" and "Maxine
the Vaccine."

In one of my PPOE's, they had a VAX cluster with at least eight
VAX (8600's, I think). The cluster was "slow as Christmas", because
everybody and his brother had accounts and constantly used the machine.

Trying to edit with EDT, I would press the "right arrow" a dozen times
and *nothing*. Then all of a sudden, the cursor would *fly* across
the screen!!! Fortunately I had a Sun workstation connected to the
network. I would edit on the workstation and transfer the file to the
VAX to compile.
 
F

FatBytestard

Already have it. Just too much real work to play right now.
Been working on an intermittant VMware Virtual Center problem on our
new datacenter.

Playing with desktop stuff is for when I'm not too busy.


I assume that comment's not meant for me.

Bill

That beco,es a problem when you do not respond to the right post. You
responded to the troll's post, where he was attacking me.
 
C

ChairmanOfTheBored

Tell us more about CML... or is that just another buzzword that you've
overheard?

Buzz off, ya little punk. The discussion is about time management and
such. Knowing that, you comment becomes invalid. If you think it
remains valid, then you are the one that is buzzword happy.
 
J

jmfbahciv

Andrew said:
Interupts are not required since you can do that communications by
round-robin.

So all CPUs will spend their idle time sniffing this common memory?
Is this memory extensible so that, when it's full, the memory block
can be expanded? If it's expanded, who does the expansion? When
it's expanded, how do the other CPUs detect that the block is no
longer the size it used to be? And where will that block be
located? Moving it around would cause grey hairs to grow on the
bit gods.
You just need a fixed shared memory area with a separate
word/block/register for each core.

It can't be fixed. If a new piece of data is needed in future
implementations, the area has to be able to expand and contract.
Some of requests could be
implemented by the cores setting a request-to-talk bit in a hardware
register.

Whose hardware register?
An alternative is serial links between the cores. This has
to be defined in the high level design of the hardware.

This sounds like the common memory is far away from each CPU
which means a latency of updating data. So there has to be
a mechanism that tells other CPUs that one of them is
writing a piece of data. If two CPUs are writing the same
piece, who wins? If one is writing while another is reading
the same piece of data, which bits are the "real" data?
And how to the two (or 3 or 4 or...n) decide which data
is the "right" data? Note that the last write does not
necessarily have to be the correct data.

There is a second priority interrupt on the OS core - watch dog timer.

Can you think of any scenarios where this timer has to have a higher
priority than the read/write to the common memory of the system?
Probably via that core's shared memory area.

that's not soon enough.
On chip shared ram is needed. it could be off chip but that is slow.

Exactly. think about that.
Multi-core systems are very complex.

Yep which is why a master/slave concept cannot work well for
any general timesharing. I suppose a dedicated system (where
one, and only one, thing is done may be able to work but that
has a completely different set of problems.
One of the reasons that the chip manufactures can sell new chips with
faster clock speeds.


Even if the CPU runs faster than the speed of light but it still cannot
cooperate if all the other CPUs match its speed. If there is a slower
mechanism in the mix, all fast CPUs will be waiting for it to "catch
up". this goes back to problem of having n CPUs in cpu-wait before
they can execute their assigned tasks.

/BAH
 
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