More on lead-free junk solder

[Arfa Daily]

It appears that the reason for relenting was because they realised that
this could affect trade with the USA who, of course, still use the
imperial system (even if the do get some of the measurements wrong), and
wouldn't accept things labelled only in metric. It's a long time since we
had something to thank the Americans for.
Ian.

Yes, that's what I read too. Still, I'm glad that it's also being hailed as
a success for common sense, and that the greengrocer's stand against the
bureaucrats who started it, is being directly cited as one of the reasons
for it being dropped, even if it's not strictly true ...

Arfa

 

[Eeyore]

Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation intended
to protect the environment from a threat which many of us believe did not
exist from lead in its solder form, in the first place. It is a typical bit
of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this "save the planet" hysteria, whilst
being laudable in principle, and absolutely fine if applied with common
sense, has now taken on almost the mantle of a religion, with green as its
god, and anyone who goes against it is branded as a worthless heretic.

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in many
areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which will result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in many
areas.

Lead makes might fine bullets for the day that its time to replace a
defective government.

Does anyone else see the irony in this? Their stupid directives are
making more lead available to make the very ammunition that may be used
to remove them from office, so the can be replaced by anyone with a
brain.




--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Arfa Daily]

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in many
areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become
counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which will
result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham

I'm waiting for the day when they catch on to lead flashing on roofs. It's
the perfect product for the job, and never needs replacing in the lifetime
of the building. But wait ! Isn't that acid rain washing down over it year
in year out? Must be causing huge quantities of that naughty lead stuff to
be getting into our kids' brains and making the teachers look stupid. Better
replace it with a lead-free product that costs four times as much, and leaks
after 3 years ! Better yet, the new replacement product self degrades in
just 10 years under the influence of the sun's UV !!

Excellent ! Draft the new Euro-reg right now, and work out some penalties
for using the old stuff. Create a new department with an army of enforcement
agents, and give them each a 4x4 so that they can get to the building sites
without a problem ...

Seriously though, it's really beginning to feel like it's going that way. or
is it just me ??

Arfa

 

[[email protected]]

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in many
areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which will result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham

Oh, I dunno.... I have some 95/5 tin/silver solder situations that
have lasted 20+ years of exterior conditions. In point of fact, I
chose that mix for just that reason. I also use the same mix for
critical solders where it is a double-major PITA to get to them in
case of future failure.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

 

[Arfa Daily]

Oh, I dunno.... I have some 95/5 tin/silver solder situations that
have lasted 20+ years of exterior conditions. In point of fact, I
chose that mix for just that reason. I also use the same mix for
critical solders where it is a double-major PITA to get to them in
case of future failure.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I bet that needs a hot iron ! d;~}

Arfa

 

[[email protected]]

I bet that needs a hot iron ! d;~}

Arfa- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No more so than regular 63/37, as it happens. Rosin core as well and
rated for electronics. I use a fairly fine solder, and work on the
theory that a short amount of hot iron is better for the components at
hand than a longer amount of (slightly) lower heat. NOT CHEAP! But in
the natural order of things, cheaper than a call-back.

 

[Arfa Daily]

No more so than regular 63/37, as it happens. Rosin core as well and
rated for electronics. I use a fairly fine solder, and work on the
theory that a short amount of hot iron is better for the components at
hand than a longer amount of (slightly) lower heat. NOT CHEAP! But in
the natural order of things, cheaper than a call-back.

Interesting. I'll take a further look into it.

Arfa

 

[bz]

No more so than regular 63/37, as it happens. Rosin core as well and
rated for electronics. I use a fairly fine solder, and work on the
theory that a short amount of hot iron is better for the components at
hand than a longer amount of (slightly) lower heat. NOT CHEAP! But in
the natural order of things, cheaper than a call-back.

<http://www.asset-
intertech.com/pressroom/whitePapers/Lead_free_whitepaper.pdf>

Melting Point.
40/60. 230°C.
50/50. 214°C.
60/40. 190°C.
63/37. 183°C.
95/5. 224°C



--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

[email protected] remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

 

[[email protected]]

<http://www.asset-
intertech.com/pressroom/whitePapers/Lead_free_whitepaper.pdf>

Melting Point.
40/60. 230°C.
50/50. 214°C.
60/40. 190°C.
63/37. 183°C.
95/5. 224°C

--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

[email protected] remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

You are correct, my 95/5 has been discontinued, the 'new' replacement
is:

http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/4800-0104/

with a melting point of ~217C.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

 

[Chris Jones]

I'm waiting for the day when they catch on to lead flashing on roofs. It's
the perfect product for the job, and never needs replacing in the lifetime
of the building. But wait ! Isn't that acid rain washing down over it year
in year out? Must be causing huge quantities of that naughty lead stuff to
be getting into our kids' brains and making the teachers look stupid.
Better replace it with a lead-free product that costs four times as much,
and leaks after 3 years ! Better yet, the new replacement product self
degrades in just 10 years under the influence of the sun's UV !!

Excellent ! Draft the new Euro-reg right now, and work out some penalties
for using the old stuff. Create a new department with an army of
enforcement agents, and give them each a 4x4 so that they can get to the
building sites without a problem ...

Seriously though, it's really beginning to feel like it's going that way.
or is it just me ??

Arfa

No way, ordinary consumers would understand and object to banning of lead
flashing, whereas complaining about solder seems a bit too geeky and so
won't make the news. The only time I ever saw anything about RoHS in the
ordinary news was when some church-organ-maker was complaining because the
traditional material for his lead organ pipes would be banned unless he
replaced the electric blower with some kind of manual pump, to make it
non-electric. Of course that got an exception, something like because it
was a fixed installation in the building. I wonder if you nail down your
TV to the floor.....

Seriously though, aluminium flashing (not alloy but very PURE aluminium)
will last quite a long time in the rain (according to my grandfather who
would probably have known, because he did build rooves over a period of
well over half a century. He was also a big fan of lead paint and hated
the new stuff because it wouldn't last hardly any time, probably not even
50 years...)

Chris

 

[Jamie]

You are correct, my 95/5 has been discontinued, the 'new' replacement
is:

http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bin/scripts/product/4800-0104/

with a melting point of ~217C.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I use some that is 95/5 TIN/COPPER. it works ok.
I just don't like the finish.

 

[bz]

I use some that is 95/5 TIN/COPPER. it works ok.
I just don't like the finish.

Not surprising as 95/5 tin/copper is NOT a eutectic mixture.

You do NOT want to use non eutectic mixtures as they pass through a
plastic stage when cooling('cold solder joints' if disturbed during
plastic state) and their melting point is higher than the eutectic.


Tin-Copper eutectic (Sn99.3/Cu0.7) 227 c
Tin-Silver eutectic (Sn96.5/Ag3.5) 221 c
CASTIN® eutectic (Sn96.2/Ag2.5/Cu0.8/Sb0.5) 216 c
http://www.smtinfo.net/Db/_Solder Alloy.html

CASTIN looks like a good bet.


--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

[email protected] remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

 

[N Cook]

No way, ordinary consumers would understand and object to banning of lead
flashing, whereas complaining about solder seems a bit too geeky and so
won't make the news. The only time I ever saw anything about RoHS in the
ordinary news was when some church-organ-maker was complaining because the
traditional material for his lead organ pipes would be banned unless he
replaced the electric blower with some kind of manual pump, to make it
non-electric. Of course that got an exception, something like because it
was a fixed installation in the building. I wonder if you nail down your
TV to the floor.....

Seriously though, aluminium flashing (not alloy but very PURE aluminium)
will last quite a long time in the rain (according to my grandfather who
would probably have known, because he did build rooves over a period of
well over half a century. He was also a big fan of lead paint and hated
the new stuff because it wouldn't last hardly any time, probably not even
50 years...)

Chris

Wiltshire | Archive | 2006 | March | 23
EU directive prompts fears for cathedral's organ

From the Salisbury Journal, first published Thursday 23rd Mar 2006.

MUSIC-LOVERS are keeping their fingers crossed that Salisbury Cathedral's
historic Father Willis organ will be renovated before the latest EU
directive comes into force a ruling that could silence the grand pipe organs
found in cathedrals, churches and concert halls across the UK.

Salisbury's magnificent organ, built in 1877, is currently out of service,
as its console is undergoing repair and restoration in Durham, along with
the equally famous organ from the Royal Festival Hall in London.

The new directive from the European Commission aims to reduce the amount of
lead used in electrical items and comes into force on July 1.

This week, Tim Hone, director of liturgy and music at Salisbury cathedral,
said that, providing the organ's repair and updating was completed before
that date, it would not contravene the directive.

He told the Journal: "We are anticipating its return around Easter, which
will give us plenty of time. But if anything delays the work, we could run
into problems."

He said the directive sought to minimise the amount of hazardous waste that
finds its way into landfill. Lead is one such hazard and the new regulations
permit electrical equipment to have a maximum of 0.1 per cent of their
weight as lead.

Organ pipes, which are made from tin and lead to give them their distinct
sound, can have a lead content of 50 per cent.

Mr Hone said that, although organ pipes were mainly mechanical devices, they
relied on electrical motors to power blowers, which move air through them
and that brought the organ into the definition of an electrical product.

But organ experts are baffled as to why the directive should apply to
organs, because, when organs are rebuilt, the lead is not thrown away but is
reused in new or different pipes.

The directive has worried the Institute of British Organ Building because it
could see the end of the 1,000-year-old craft of organ-building in Britain.
The institute said: "There is a very black cloud on the horizon".

Tony Baldry, Tory MP for Banbury, is urging the government to intervene to
save the organ. The department of trade and industry has warned that Britain
must comply with the directive, although exemptions could be granted by the
EU.

Mr Hone said that, unless an exemption were made or the directive redrafted,
Salisbury will face the problem again the next time the organ pipes need
cleaning and restoration.

from
http://archive.salisburyjournal.co.uk/2006/3/23/266296.html

 

[Arfa Daily]

Wiltshire | Archive | 2006 | March | 23
EU directive prompts fears for cathedral's organ

From the Salisbury Journal, first published Thursday 23rd Mar 2006.

MUSIC-LOVERS are keeping their fingers crossed that Salisbury Cathedral's
historic Father Willis organ will be renovated before the latest EU
directive comes into force a ruling that could silence the grand pipe
organs
found in cathedrals, churches and concert halls across the UK.

Salisbury's magnificent organ, built in 1877, is currently out of service,
as its console is undergoing repair and restoration in Durham, along with
the equally famous organ from the Royal Festival Hall in London.

The new directive from the European Commission aims to reduce the amount
of
lead used in electrical items and comes into force on July 1.

This week, Tim Hone, director of liturgy and music at Salisbury cathedral,
said that, providing the organ's repair and updating was completed before
that date, it would not contravene the directive.

He told the Journal: "We are anticipating its return around Easter, which
will give us plenty of time. But if anything delays the work, we could run
into problems."

He said the directive sought to minimise the amount of hazardous waste
that
finds its way into landfill. Lead is one such hazard and the new
regulations
permit electrical equipment to have a maximum of 0.1 per cent of their
weight as lead.

Organ pipes, which are made from tin and lead to give them their distinct
sound, can have a lead content of 50 per cent.

Mr Hone said that, although organ pipes were mainly mechanical devices,
they
relied on electrical motors to power blowers, which move air through them
and that brought the organ into the definition of an electrical product.

But organ experts are baffled as to why the directive should apply to
organs, because, when organs are rebuilt, the lead is not thrown away but
is
reused in new or different pipes.

The directive has worried the Institute of British Organ Building because
it
could see the end of the 1,000-year-old craft of organ-building in
Britain.
The institute said: "There is a very black cloud on the horizon".

Tony Baldry, Tory MP for Banbury, is urging the government to intervene to
save the organ. The department of trade and industry has warned that
Britain
must comply with the directive, although exemptions could be granted by
the
EU.

Mr Hone said that, unless an exemption were made or the directive
redrafted,
Salisbury will face the problem again the next time the organ pipes need
cleaning and restoration.

from
http://archive.salisburyjournal.co.uk/2006/3/23/266296.html

I saw a similar thing up here, but I think in the end, it turned out to be
hysterical nonsense, and that the organ builders had basically done what the
people who made this crap legislation in the first place had done - which is
to not to do their homework right in the first place. I seem to remember
reading subsequently that it was not the pipework that was going to be
affected, but the control electronics. I'm no expert in pipe organ
restoration, but I understand that when they are rebuilt and brought up to
date, various control electronics are added now, and that it was going to be
this that would be affected. One such organ builder complained that it was
going to put his current restoration project back six months, because that
was how long it was going to take his electronics supplier, to tool up for
the legislation.

Arfa

 

[Jerry Peters]

I'm waiting for the day when they catch on to lead flashing on roofs. It's
the perfect product for the job, and never needs replacing in the lifetime
of the building. But wait ! Isn't that acid rain washing down over it year
in year out? Must be causing huge quantities of that naughty lead stuff to
be getting into our kids' brains and making the teachers look stupid. Better
replace it with a lead-free product that costs four times as much, and leaks
after 3 years ! Better yet, the new replacement product self degrades in
just 10 years under the influence of the sun's UV !!

Excellent ! Draft the new Euro-reg right now, and work out some penalties
for using the old stuff. Create a new department with an army of enforcement
agents, and give them each a 4x4 so that they can get to the building sites
without a problem ...

Seriously though, it's really beginning to feel like it's going that way. or
is it just me ??

Arfa

How about this one:
http://ellsworthmaine.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7446&Itemid=31

Not lead, but mercury in compact flourescent bulbs, and what happens
when you have imbecile who gets the government involved.

Jerry

 

[Arfa Daily]

How about this one:
http://ellsworthmaine.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7446&Itemid=31

Not lead, but mercury in compact flourescent bulbs, and what happens
when you have imbecile who gets the government involved.

Jerry

Oh boy - don't start me on that one. The Euro-twats are already on this.
They are now trying to totally ban the sale of all incandescent light bulbs
in Europe, by 2010 I think it is. It has been advocated by that Merkel woman
from Germany, I believe, and of course, Blair has signed up to it without
question. All in the name of the great god "Green" again.

In theory, CFLs already contain more mercury than can be legally disposed of
at a council tip. My local tip ( Borough Council Recycling Centre - Ha ! )
has facilities for taking ordinary fluorescent tubes off you, but no
specific facilities for CFLs. Winter in our latitudes are cold and dark -
just ideal for CFLs - NOT!! When I turn a light on, irrespective of what the
air temperature is, I want LIGHT. I do not want to have to wait 3 minutes
whilst the bloody thing warms up and goes through a range of colours from
cat urine yellow to Venus on a summer's night white ...

As far as the 'lack of efficiency' thing goes, there is a groundswell of
alternate opinion on this, in that the 'wasted' energy is released as heat,
which actually serves to offset the heating requirements of the house, given
that most dwellings these days are well insulated to *prevent* the loss of
heat to the outside. So for every 50 watts of lost efficiency from a 60 watt
light bulb, that's basically 50 watts of house heating not required. If this
additional input is lost, then it will have to be put back in from the
outside.

Then there's the fact that CFLs contain a switching inverter circuit,
containing a number of components that all have to be manufactured, then
shipped, then assembled onto a pcb that has to be made and shipped. Then all
of that has to be integrated into a package design that is much more complex
to manufacture, and containing many more component parts than a conventional
light bulb. Remember that all of those parts have to be made and shipped as
well. Now add in a smattering of dangerous chemicals, including mercury and
the tri-phosphor compounds employed to turn the UV into visible light, and
what do you finish up with ? A potentially dangerous household item ( see
Jerry's article link ) that weighs twice as much as a conventional bulb - so
needs a higher energy budget for shipping - that's actually not terribly
good at doing what's needed of it, which is supplying light of a good visual
quality, in the quantities needed, exactly //when// and //where// it's
needed ...

Just as an additional aside, these things can also be sources of huge
quantities of RF noise spanning great swathes of RF spectrum over
significant physical distances, when they get old, or when the caps in the
inverter start going bad.

See - I told you that you shouldn't get me started on this one ... !! d:~}

Arfa

 

[Eeyore]

Oh boy - don't start me on that one. The Euro-twats are already on this.
They are now trying to totally ban the sale of all incandescent light bulbs
in Europe, by 2010 I think it is.

Since when ?

It's the Australians doing that AIUI, not the EU.

In any case both GE and Philips reckon they'll have halogen lamps operating at similar
efficiencies to CFLs by around that time, so any ban on *incandescents* would be pure
madness.

A tax related to (in)efficiency might make some sense.

Graham

 

[Ian Jackson]

Since when ?

It's the Australians doing that AIUI, not the EU.

In any case both GE and Philips reckon they'll have halogen lamps
operating at similar
efficiencies to CFLs by around that time, so any ban on *incandescents*
would be pure
madness.

A tax related to (in)efficiency might make some sense.

Graham

If we end up with a ban on incandescent lamps and fluorescent lamps,
we'll have to go back to burning whale oil.
Ian.
--

 

[Arfa Daily]

Since when ?

It's the Australians doing that AIUI, not the EU.

In any case both GE and Philips reckon they'll have halogen lamps
operating at similar
efficiencies to CFLs by around that time, so any ban on *incandescents*
would be pure
madness.

A tax related to (in)efficiency might make some sense.

Graham

Look again Graham. The EU - specifically Merkel - have signed up to the same
thing as Aus is already doing ... There was a big article in the M.o.S. I
think it was about 6 weeks ago. Look at

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages...ews.html?in_article_id=441200&in_page_id=1811

Arfa