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Lead free solder - exposed in a UK national newspaper

R

Rich Grise

place than the living hell they came from. Eventually, space travel
will be mundane enough for the carpetbaggers, bureaucrats,
politicians, hookers, pimps, salesmen, and the rest of the trash that
constitutes civilization.

What is it you don't like about hookers? Too much like true Free Market
Capitalism? ;-)

Thanks,
Rich
 
J

JosephKK

and how many lumens come out of your fixture with the 890 lumen lamp in it?

CFLs are terrible for that. they are measured in the light sphere sans
fixture, which can make a tremendous difference. easily 20-30%.


they are not bulbs. They are light fittings with integral lamps. that
alters the C-B calcs substantially.


its a total cost of ownership thing. efficiency wise they pay for
themselves (I have seen the ROI calcs but cant recall them) in a few years.

the main market is for people who dont change their own lightbulbs (eg
companies) where it costs a lot to get a single lamp changed, so they
often get a sparky to change all lamps whether or not they need it, eg
annually or bi-annually. And if its in say a tall atrium and you need
scissor lifts, these things pay themselves off in less than the
lifgetime of a single incandescent, CFL or flouro.

Cheers
Terry

For street lighting, warehouse lighting, and industrial lighting there
is a competing technology: Induction lighting. Typical lamp/bulb life
50,000 to 75,000 hours. Twice the life and better luminous efficacy
at a 50% surcharge compared to HID lighting. It is starting to get a
lot of notice. Oh, and better electrical efficiency, takes about half
the power for the same amount of light.
 
A

Arfa Daily

JosephKK said:
For street lighting, warehouse lighting, and industrial lighting there
is a competing technology: Induction lighting. Typical lamp/bulb life
50,000 to 75,000 hours. Twice the life and better luminous efficacy
at a 50% surcharge compared to HID lighting. It is starting to get a
lot of notice. Oh, and better electrical efficiency, takes about half
the power for the same amount of light.

I don't know how much take-up of this technology there has been in the UK.
It does beg the question of how much trouble it could cause, if a single
streetlamp or warehouse luminaire went 'rogue'. Already, I see fellow hams
bleating all the time about HF bands interference problems from rogue CFLs,
and SMPS's and PLT and so on. Imagine the potential for interference if a
high power streetlight ballast, feeding an induction lamp 50ft up a pole,
started radiating on 13 odd megs. Or a factory one 50ft up in the ceiling
.... :)

Arfa
 
N

N_Cook

more printed followup
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/17/1
# The Guardian,
# Thursday April 17 2008
Tin woes solder on

Congratulations on the very interesting article on tin whiskers (Within a
whisker of failure, April 3). You may be interested to hear of another
phenomenon associated with lead-free solders in electronics, known as tin
pest. Research was carried out into the allotropy of tin 80 years ago. Tin
pest was found to occur by a process of nucleation and growth of "grey" tin
(a form found below 13C), and was very slow - often requiring years to
complete. Since the transition from "white" to "grey" tin involved a 27%
increase in volume, its formation was restricted to the surface. Recently,
tin pest has been reported in bulk samples of lead-free solder alloys
following a few years' exposure at -18C, the usual freezer temperature.

To date it has not been observed on actual joints. But lead-free
interconnections have been in service for a relatively short time. Although
we do not know whether it is necessary to shut the stable door, we should
make more effort to understand and control tin pest formation. Only time
will tell whether it represents a real problem in electronics.
Professor Bill Plumbridge
Faculty of Technology
The Open University
 
J

JosephKK

I don't know how much take-up of this technology there has been in the UK.
It does beg the question of how much trouble it could cause, if a single
streetlamp or warehouse luminaire went 'rogue'. Already, I see fellow hams
bleating all the time about HF bands interference problems from rogue CFLs,
and SMPS's and PLT and so on. Imagine the potential for interference if a
high power streetlight ballast, feeding an induction lamp 50ft up a pole,
started radiating on 13 odd megs. Or a factory one 50ft up in the ceiling
... :)

Arfa

In the US they have to meet FCC radiated and conducted emission
standards. Thus the CFLs going rouge probably only statistically meet
those standards, such is part of the nature of regulation.
 
A

Arfa Daily

JosephKK said:
In the US they have to meet FCC radiated and conducted emission
standards. Thus the CFLs going rouge probably only statistically meet
those standards, such is part of the nature of regulation.

They have to meet strict emission regulations here too, which I'm sure for
the most part, when in full working order, they do. The problems arise when
the crappy little filter caps in the front end of the switching driver for
the tubes, go open circuit or high ESR, due no doubt to the unventillated
enclosure in the bottom of the lamp, that the electronics sit in, running
very hot. Once that cap has failed, the inverter radiates like a bastard,
swamping the airways with broadband hash. It's bad enough when one goes
rogue like this, 6 foot off the deck in someone's driveway light outside
their house. Think what it would be like if one went bad 50 foot up in the
air ...

Arfa
 
A

Arfa Daily

N_Cook said:
more printed followup
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/17/1
# The Guardian,
# Thursday April 17 2008
Tin woes solder on

Congratulations on the very interesting article on tin whiskers (Within a
whisker of failure, April 3). You may be interested to hear of another
phenomenon associated with lead-free solders in electronics, known as tin
pest. Research was carried out into the allotropy of tin 80 years ago. Tin
pest was found to occur by a process of nucleation and growth of "grey"
tin
(a form found below 13C), and was very slow - often requiring years to
complete. Since the transition from "white" to "grey" tin involved a 27%
increase in volume, its formation was restricted to the surface. Recently,
tin pest has been reported in bulk samples of lead-free solder alloys
following a few years' exposure at -18C, the usual freezer temperature.

To date it has not been observed on actual joints. But lead-free
interconnections have been in service for a relatively short time.
Although
we do not know whether it is necessary to shut the stable door, we should
make more effort to understand and control tin pest formation. Only time
will tell whether it represents a real problem in electronics.
Professor Bill Plumbridge
Faculty of Technology
The Open University

'Plumb' -ridge. What an appropriate name for someone versed in lead matters
! Seriously though, I'm really glad that the scientific establishment is
finally making some anti lead-free noise, and backing up with genuine
science, what we lowly service engineers have been trying to tell the world,
since the first day that this hateful material was foisted on us by self
serving bureaucrats with a politically 'green' agenda ...

Arfa
 
J

JosephKK

They have to meet strict emission regulations here too, which I'm sure for
the most part, when in full working order, they do. The problems arise when
the crappy little filter caps in the front end of the switching driver for
the tubes, go open circuit or high ESR, due no doubt to the unventillated
enclosure in the bottom of the lamp, that the electronics sit in, running
very hot. Once that cap has failed, the inverter radiates like a bastard,
swamping the airways with broadband hash. It's bad enough when one goes
rogue like this, 6 foot off the deck in someone's driveway light outside
their house. Think what it would be like if one went bad 50 foot up in the
air ...

Arfa

Please explain under what situations would a cfl be mounted 50 feet
above ground.
 
A

Arfa Daily

JosephKK said:
Please explain under what situations would a cfl be mounted 50 feet
above ground.

Block of flats ? Might be 100 feet up in the air or more in that case. When
the EU morons responsible for all this eco-bollocks legislation finally ban
incandescents in the UK, as they have stated that they will in short order,
then tower blocks will be full of CFLs, as there will be no alternative, yes
?

Originally, when we got onto lighting being 50 foot up in the air, we were
talking about induction lighting in street lamps and factory ceiling lights.
The point was that these devices use high frequency generators to couple the
energy into the lamps, and these generators follow similar design principles
to the tube driver inverters in CFLs. Thus, if low power CFL inverters go
bad, and create the RF havoc that they sometimes do at just a few feet off
the ground, then imagine how bad the situation would be if the high power HF
generator for an induction lamp, 50 foot up a pole, when similarly bad. With
my thinking now ...?

Arfa
 
J

JosephKK

Block of flats ? Might be 100 feet up in the air or more in that case. When
the EU morons responsible for all this eco-bollocks legislation finally ban
incandescents in the UK, as they have stated that they will in short order,
then tower blocks will be full of CFLs, as there will be no alternative, yes
?

Originally, when we got onto lighting being 50 foot up in the air, we were
talking about induction lighting in street lamps and factory ceiling lights.
The point was that these devices use high frequency generators to couple the
energy into the lamps, and these generators follow similar design principles
to the tube driver inverters in CFLs. Thus, if low power CFL inverters go
bad, and create the RF havoc that they sometimes do at just a few feet off
the ground, then imagine how bad the situation would be if the high power HF
generator for an induction lamp, 50 foot up a pole, when similarly bad. With
my thinking now ...?

Arfa

Most of those will be converted to HID lighting or induction lighting
instead of cfl over the longevity characteristics.
 
A

Archimedes' Lever

Yes, that's more like it. At least it cites relevant research, which
*appears* to have been carried out by scientific people using proper
methodology.

Arfa

The fact is that the amalgam used by the dentists uses the Mercury to
bind the other metals together covalently.

As the dentist presses the silver amalgam into the filling cavity, the
mercury squeezes out and is recaptured by the dentist.. This means that
your fillings are like 95% Silver, and a few percent of other metals, and
less than one percent of metallic form Mercury.

NOT A HEALTH HAZARD.
 
A

Arfa Daily

JosephKK said:
Most of those will be converted to HID lighting or induction lighting
instead of cfl over the longevity characteristics.

?????????

Arfa
 
A

Arfa Daily

Archimedes' Lever said:
The fact is that the amalgam used by the dentists uses the Mercury to
bind the other metals together covalently.

As the dentist presses the silver amalgam into the filling cavity, the
mercury squeezes out and is recaptured by the dentist.. This means that
your fillings are like 95% Silver, and a few percent of other metals, and
less than one percent of metallic form Mercury.

NOT A HEALTH HAZARD.

My feeling too ...

Arfa
 
J

JosephKK

?????????

Arfa

Most street lighting is HPS currently with a normal ballast, there are
some MH lamps with normal ballasts. LED street lighting is being
experimented with. Caltrans in using induction lighting on signs and
may branch out into other uses. Since induction lighting is targeted
at hard to maintain locations in commercial and industrial settings
there are design differences from household CFL where cheap is the
dominant factor. Where we will see CFL is on smaller apartment
buildings with penny-pinching owners / managers.
 
A

Arfa Daily

JosephKK said:
Most street lighting is HPS currently with a normal ballast, there are
some MH lamps with normal ballasts. LED street lighting is being
experimented with. Caltrans in using induction lighting on signs and
may branch out into other uses. Since induction lighting is targeted
at hard to maintain locations in commercial and industrial settings
there are design differences from household CFL where cheap is the
dominant factor. Where we will see CFL is on smaller apartment
buildings with penny-pinching owners / managers.

Ah, OK. I see what you're saying now. I guess that LED lighting is going to
become the standard when they can get them high enough powered. This can't
be too far away, as I see that car manufacturers are starting to experiment
with LED headlights. Already, Audi seem to have LED front running lights,
set into the headlight units, and some of the front lamps used on bicycles
now output enough light to see the road ahead. A local night club had
coloured floodlights on the front of the building, which were LED based, and
I was amazed at just how good a job they did.

Elektor magazine carried out an interesting project last month. They took a
DLP video projector with a standard expensive HID lamp and colour wheel, and
canibalised it to fit an array of red, green and blue Luxeon LEDs in its
place. They then programmed up a cheap microcontroller to emulate the
rotation of the colour wheel, by switching the colours of the LEDs with 3
FETs. They also fed a colour sync signal from the micro to the original
optical sync pickup, so that the LED switching remained synced to the DLP
chip drive. Colour balance was achieved by tweaking the 'on' times of the
LED colours, in software.

The conclusion was that although not as bright as the original HID lamp, the
projector did produce a perfectly useable picture, which proved what they
set out to, which was that it was perfectly possible to use LEDs in place of
a lamp, and that it would be just as good, once they had got the luminous
output up just a bit more.

Arfa
 
N

N_Cook

and some balancing comment
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/24/2
# The Guardian,
# Thursday April 24 2008
A whisker of doubt

I believe there are several inaccuracies in Kurt Jacobsen's article (Within
a whisker of failure, April 3). He cites the Swatch watch company as
recalling a "huge batch" of watches that amounted to a financial loss, when
in fact Swatch was denied its request for a RoHS exemption, as another
supplier makes lead-free quartz movements it could use with no whisker
issues. Also, Swatch makes no mention of a recall in its EU request. The
nuclear power plant failure example and others are also misleading, as these
were failures due to pure-tin formulations that predate RoHS. The new
formulations reduce these issues. Here's a good article that refutes the
"gloom and doom" predictions: tinyurl.com/4wxmkz.
Marcus England, by email
 
A

Arfa Daily

N_Cook said:
and some balancing comment
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/24/2
# The Guardian,
# Thursday April 24 2008
A whisker of doubt

I believe there are several inaccuracies in Kurt Jacobsen's article
(Within
a whisker of failure, April 3). He cites the Swatch watch company as
recalling a "huge batch" of watches that amounted to a financial loss,
when
in fact Swatch was denied its request for a RoHS exemption, as another
supplier makes lead-free quartz movements it could use with no whisker
issues. Also, Swatch makes no mention of a recall in its EU request. The
nuclear power plant failure example and others are also misleading, as
these
were failures due to pure-tin formulations that predate RoHS. The new
formulations reduce these issues. Here's a good article that refutes the
"gloom and doom" predictions: tinyurl.com/4wxmkz.
Marcus England, by email

Hmmm. Have you ever come across any solder that's pure tin ? It would take a
blowtorch to melt it. Also, there is plenty of research that shows that the
lead in tin-lead solder alloy, mitigates the growth of tin whiskers, whereas
copper doesn't. And anyway, none of the whisker issues alter the fact that
the bloody stuff just doesn't make reliable joints on many component forms,
as anyone involved at the sharp end, would attest to ...

The article that Mr England cites, does not instil a great deal more
confidence in me. Whilst it may be true that *some* cellular phones have
been manufactured in lead-free since 2001, this 'fact' tells us nothing
about the long-term reliability of them, as most are owned primarily as a
fashion statement - even amongst 'mature' businessmen - and only
secondarily as a communications device. This, as well as the fact that the
battery only lasts a short while, dictates that it is replaced on a yearly
basis, which is encouraged by the cellular operators, when they give the
latest all singing and dancing models away, as an incentive to stick with
their network.

Further, this is just one single low power device, As all of us involved in
electronic service work know, there are many other consumer devices such as
TV sets, DVD players, HiFi, microwave ovens etc which, unlike cellphones,
contain large power components and connectors, which do not enjoy good long
term - or often even short term - reliability, when jointed using lead-free
solders. This in no way supports the statement in the article that :-

"This field data indicates the reliability of lead-free assemblies is equal
to, or better than, tin-lead soldered assemblies".

You simply can't make statements like that based on a single product group,
and claim them to have blanket validity.

The further statement ....

"While laboratory studies suggest lead-free solder does not perform as well
in high-stress applications, such as might occur in a ‘drop test', many
applications with these types of concerns (i.e. military) are currently
exempted from RoHS. Meanwhile, alloy developmental work to address lead-free
shortcomings is already underway."

..... contains three areas of concern in that (1) lead-free solder does not
perform *as well* ... (2) some applications e.g. military have concerns
about this, and (3) that it is accepted that the technology has shortcomings
that need to be addressed.

Further, I also have a problem with the first paragraph in the article :-

"Most people incorrectly think the primary intent of RoHS is to protect the
environment. In truth, the fundamental purpose of RoHS is to make recycling
EEE easier and safer."

Protection of the environment was the ticket on which RoHS in general - and
this substitute lead-free technology in particular - was originally sold to
an unsuspecting world. It seems to me that those who make up this
eco-legislation (as they go along, I suspect) are now discovering the error
of their original concept as to why the mature and proven lead solder
technology needed replacing, and are now seeking to bury that error in a
different concept altogether. I can't remember ever before seeing any
reference anywhere to RoHS being primarily to improve the ease and safety of
WEEE recycling, rather than as an environmental issue.

So, far from this article "refuting the gloom and doom", I think it serves
only to further highlight the well known shortcomings of lead-free solder
technology, and unfortunately for Mr England's case, I don't believe that
his letter holds a candle to the two from the other side of the coin, which
preceded it.

Arfa
 

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