M
Mark
LOL, that is insane.
Bob Parker said:
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Categories
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Platforms
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Content
Isolated, regulated, toroidal step down transformer AC power supply design.
M
Mark
Oh, very droll. I meant I haven't had the lid off SINCE it was suggested
that I take the measurements. Not YET, anyway.
I finished recapping it around 12 months ago.
The AC/AC transformer measures 11.2 VAC when unloaded.
that I take the measurements. Not YET, anyway.
I finished recapping it around 12 months ago.
The AC/AC transformer measures 11.2 VAC when unloaded.
B
Bob Parker
You, Mark, are a mere simple troll. You fit the definition
perfectly. From http://brawl-hall.com/pages/trolls.php ....
"The most basic form of trolling is to submit a post that will
attract the most possible amount of responses, negative or argumentative
replies usually preferred, and then to sit back and bask in the chaos
that has been created.
This troll is simply out for immediate scoreboard and a quick win is
enough to satisfy him. The tactic is basic, relatively uncreative, and
only touches the surface of what a troll can really do; yet it's
effective in accomplishing its singular task--to attract attention and
garner as many responses as possible.
The content delivered by this type of troll generally falls into
several areas; It may consist of an obviously foolish opposition of
common knowledge, many intentional offensive insults or flames directed
to the readers of a community, or a blanket generation on a specific
category which is sure to attract a large number of argumentative replies."
I'm not going to play your silly game.
M
Mark
Poxy, you can not claim that asking a difficult question IS prima facie a
claim of expertise by the person posing the question. That appears to be the
edifice of your argument and it isn't true.
Difficult questions aren't always difficult to postulate. Sometimes they are
very simple. For example, the square root of minus one has no real solution
but it isn't difficult to postulate.
If I've asked a difficult question it is entirely accidental. If I've acted
with belligerence, it was entirely in defending MYSELF and not my IGNORANCE.
People have value WHETHER OR NOT they know anything about electronics. I had
a right to defend my self respect and I exercised that right and I still do,
against anyone that would seek to take it away from me.
There has been precious little help and a hell of a lot of humiliation. And
that's the truth about it.
Piffle to your top-posting argument.
Top posting + asking for help + not suppling all requests for more
information <> arrogance.
Top posting is a matter of style.
Asking for help is sometimes necessary and at other times, unwise.
Suppling ALL requests for information is:
a) Sometimes not possible.
b) Not always timely or practical (equipment and expertise).
c) Not something you should EVER allow yourself to be BULLIED into.
The more you bludgeon the more resolutely I resist. Why?
People have value WHETHER OR NOT they know anything about electronics.
How can you NOT see that?
claim of expertise by the person posing the question. That appears to be the
edifice of your argument and it isn't true.
Difficult questions aren't always difficult to postulate. Sometimes they are
very simple. For example, the square root of minus one has no real solution
but it isn't difficult to postulate.
If I've asked a difficult question it is entirely accidental. If I've acted
with belligerence, it was entirely in defending MYSELF and not my IGNORANCE.
People have value WHETHER OR NOT they know anything about electronics. I had
a right to defend my self respect and I exercised that right and I still do,
against anyone that would seek to take it away from me.
There has been precious little help and a hell of a lot of humiliation. And
that's the truth about it.
Piffle to your top-posting argument.
Top posting + asking for help + not suppling all requests for more
information <> arrogance.
Top posting is a matter of style.
Asking for help is sometimes necessary and at other times, unwise.
Suppling ALL requests for information is:
a) Sometimes not possible.
b) Not always timely or practical (equipment and expertise).
c) Not something you should EVER allow yourself to be BULLIED into.
The more you bludgeon the more resolutely I resist. Why?
People have value WHETHER OR NOT they know anything about electronics.
How can you NOT see that?
Poxy said:Mark said:
You have purposely supplied so incredibly little information that we've
had
to make the best assumptions we could in an attempt to help. Even when
told
what you're asking is complex, impractical and most likely not required,
you've responded in such a dismissive manner that one could only assume
you
must have a clue what you're talking about.
Interestingly, the only person who immediately picked you for what you are
is Phil - I'm not the biggest fan of Phil's choice of interpersonal manner
sometimes, but he did work you out in an accurate and timely fashion.
No, top posting in a forum where bottom posting is the convention *AND*
asking for help *AND* ignoring repeated requests to not top post is
arrogant
and rude, as is your general manner.
No, because you are being rude and inconsiderate towards the people *YOU
ARE
ASKING FOR HELP*.
I couldn't give rat's about your considered analysis of the group
dynamic -
you came here ostensibly asking for assistance in solving some issue with
some device that remains a mystery. I've tried to help you as have many
others and you've rudely snubbed our efforts despute our good intentions.
You should be ashamed of your behaviour.
Poxy said:Mark wrote:
Duh!
I've NEVER claimed to have any electronics expertise, what-so-ever.
Never.
Of course you did - the first thing you asked was about something
that produced a regulated AC voltage. A person with a reasonable
background in elecronics would assume you know what you're talking
about to even consider
a relatively complex device.
As for the rest of your top-post, I don't know what this rant is in
reference to, as it's top posted.
Virtually every person who has responded to you has asked, mostly
quite kindly, to refrain from top posting. You refuse, arrogantly
despite the fact
that you're seeking help and advice. Rude.
People who are honestly trying to help you - people who do have
experience and expertise - ask you what the device is and other
questions, and you come
back with nothing, except the horribly arrogant attitude that they
don't need to know this. They are trying to help you for heaven's
sake!
Finally, while you regard this as one big nasty conspiracy by a
bunch of dysfunctional sociopaths, you should possibly consider the
more obvious conclusion: a bunch of people have tried to help you,
and one by one they've
all come to the same conclusion: you're behaving like a bit of a
tool.
Chances are...
So this would be an oft used Usenet tactic, Vis-à-vis;
a) First, manufacture a claim and then infer that the other
combatant made it.
b) Then others may use that false claim as a justification for
further criticisms, attacks and/or allegations of arrogance, pseudo
intellectualism, whatever. At this point it is open slather.
c) Never-ever concern yourself with the truth of what claims the
other combatant did ACTUALLY make about their expertise or lack of
it. This would be sheer folly and may lead to the loss of the
argument.
Regarding your suggested methodology. Making the suggested
measurements reveals nothing unless it is done during periods of
voltage overload. So OK, I could pull the DMM and quietly sit there
and wait for a hours, perhaps days, poised with my probes at
exactly the correct location and angle and just wait for something
to happen.
Yes, I could do that, if I was a creation. Well done.
Regarding your assertion that I don't know "how challenging it is to
design and implement what you wanted". Well I certainly don't know
how difficult it is for YOU.
As it happens, I am one of the few contributors here who has
ACTUALLY suggested a viable and cost effective solution to my own
request. Go on, look back. I DARE YOU.
I am not being conceited here, I actually EXPECTED that I could get
a better solution from someone here.
Re: Your analogy. Could I suggest you reproduce it in another post
and I will go over it with you, point-by-point. This post is already
approaching an unmanageable size and in any case your 'analogy'
amounts to little more than 'white noise'.
Re: Bob's advice. It may be good advice. The likelihood of getting
any useable information from a .Usenet thread is inversely
proportional to its length. So the longer this goes on, the more
likely it is good advice.
Also, I don't know where you got that 'Pre-amp' presumption.
Certainly not from me.
You reckoned that if I was being honest I would say "Actually, I
built the engine, it's running badly, does anyone want to buy some
really good fuel filters?"
The natural presumption from that statement is, according to you at
least, that I would be dishonest if I claimed:
a) Not to have built it,
b) That it is running well (except during periods of over supply)
c) That I don't want to sell my caps.
However, all those things are true. So that is the first reason why
your analogy is fucked up and arse about.
I made no claim about making it, or designing it for that matter. I
did tell you that I had swapped some capacitors, which is only a
minor modification at best. I was a little surprised that nobody
suggested checking for dry joint(s) on the caps, but hey, that is
your prerogative.
Regarding this statement: "I thought my insightful analogy would
help you understand why people responded to you with derision".
I developed my own theory, days ago. Read my functional description
of the supposed club of 'deciders' that I have dubbed
'Phil-o-philes'. My theory much stronger that yours because, like
all good theories, my theory is based on verifiable, empirical
observations of facts. (i.e. when Phil inferred that the power to
"get to decide what others accept or believe" exists as a right that
some people may hold others not. To make such a distinction, he must
believe that the power a) ACTUALLY exits b) is assignable to various
individuals and to the exclusion of others, which is as much as
saying, he believes it exists as a RIGHT. He didn't say on what
basis this right might be bestowed on individuals, but we can only
assume it is earned by displaying superior knowledge or experience.
On the other had, your analogy is based on what? Three complete
falsehoods for a start and then no empirical observations that you
have elucidated thus far.
Your analogy is NOTHING more than OPINION, masquerading as analysis.
Perhaps you may develop it into something more useful, but thus far
it has the appearance of analogy by a 'petrol head', and nothing
more.
Regarding your apology: I will give it my consideration.
Well, I didn't think of searching for the '7815 datasheet', so
fucking sue
me.
That shows that you are not experienced in working with
electronics - anybody who regularly does searches for component
numbers would automatically add "datasheet". Furthermore, anyone
with electronics experience would understand the operating
characteristics of a common linear
regulator without needing to refer to a datasheet - it's really
common, basic stuff.
Either way, the cheapest solution is sounding like I should
exchange the 7815 /7915 pair, for a pair that DOES have that 30V
spec. and in so doing,
eliminate the possible cause of the observed clipping during
voltage overloads.
The first thing to do is measure voltages at key points - at the
output of the AC plugpack at the input of the regulators, at the
output of the regualtors etc. Boring I know, but that is how you
start the diagnosis a power supply problem. That you don't appear
to realise that really basic fact demonstrates a lack of knowledge
and experience with simple power supplies and suggests that you're
not equipped to diagnose nor fix the problem.
Also, I take umbrage (offence, to you) at your trite analogy. It
isn't an
accurate portrayal of what happened or my actions or my
motivations or my attitude. I would welcome a point-by-point
comparison of your analogy and my behaviour.
My analogy, horribly misspelt as it probably was, was reasonable,
if not as
amusing as I would have liked. You clearly don't get how
challenging it is to design and implement what you wanted - it's
*really* complex stuff. By comparison, getting a standard
dual-rail, linear regulator power supply to behave is trivial.
The more I think about it, Bob's advice is correct - you should get
someone
with a solid background in electronics to fix your preamp for you.
Your PRESUMPTION that I must pay too much for my Black Gates is
based on what? An ASSUMPTION that I pay foolish prices. That is
both insulting AND ignorant (of how cheaply Black Gates can be
purchased).
Hey, if they give the sparkling audio performance you like, fair
enough. I probably haven't paid enough attention to the musicality
of the caps I buy.
I also take umberage to your allegation that I am not "being
straight-up with [this group]".
You reckon that if i was being honest I would say "Actually, I
built the engine, it's running badly, does anyone want to buy some
really good fuel filters?" Here is why I wouldn't say such a
thing:
a) I didn't build the application, I modified it.
You never said that. It does explain a lot. In my analogy, it would
be like
revealing that you'd modified your engine while at the same time
giving the
strong impression you don't really know how engines work.
b) It isn't running badly (under nominal conditions), it sounds
superb. c) I am not SELLING anything.
That was a joke. Sorry. I was kind of thinking that if your "thing"
didn't end up working, you could recover some cash-money by Ebaying
them fancy caps.
I look forward to our point-by-point comparison of your analogy
with my behaviour. I can't find many comparisons at all. Do you do
this often? (that is: make up stupid analogies that just don't
work).
Look, I've got nothing to add. I thought my insightful analogy
would help you understand why people responded to you with
derision. Obviously you still don't get it, and that seems to be
because you don't have the knowledge and experience in electronics
to diagnose and solve the fault - everything you say reinforces
that fact.
Get someone who knows what they are doing to look at your device.
If it's a
power supply problem they'll diagnose and fix it very quickly.
And you might be able to pay them in capacitors
M
Mark
This is a quick win?
Am I siting back and basking in the chaos?
You have got to be fucking joking.
Am I siting back and basking in the chaos?
You have got to be fucking joking.
B
Bob Parker
"It cannot be stressed enough that trolling is a game. In-order for this
game of trolling to take place players are a mandatory ingredient. Some
players are willing, others are unknowingly thrust into this game. As a
civilian one will often serve as a pawn. You're not real, you're simply
a digital abstraction to be used and manipulated."
Get back under your bridge, troll.
M
Mark
Thanks. I am currently trialing my existing UPS for just that purpose.
I need to collect a few weeks data.
I need to collect a few weeks data.
M
Mark
LOL, well that is just the epitome of clear communication, Bob.
follow your example
I should perhaps
and
follow your example
I should perhaps
and
B
Bob Parker
Get back under your bridge, troll.
M
Mark
Do I need to draw a picture for you Bob?
Bob Parker said:
T
Trevor Wilson
Bob Parker said:
**Agreed, Bob. Mark, we're done. Here's another couple of places you can ask
your nonsensical question:
sci.electronics.repair
rec.audio.tech
See what responses you receive.
A
Andy Wood
Mark said:
How about you take the damn lid off NOW and measure the voltage WHEN
LOADED too?
Having done that you might as well measure the voltages at the input
and output of the regulators, like countless others have suggested.
Oh, and while you are about it, measure the voltages when FULLY LOADED
as well. Perhaps the load does not vary, but then how the hell would I
know, because you insist that nobody needs to know what the gismo is.
Andy Wood
[email protected]
P
Poxy
Mark said:
I apologise for assuming you had some level of competence and experience
with electronics. I clearly misjudged you initially.
However, what I can tell now after reading these inumerable posts containing
so little information about your alleged "device" and so much sbout yourself
and your opinions is that whether you know it or not, you're a troll. I
don't think your motivations nor intentions in going on this way are to
solve whatever problem you might have, it's to cause conflict and grief.
I doubt whether this "device" actually exists, or whether it's a construct
of experiences and things you've read, as when put together none of it makes
sense and you are unable to come up with a cogent explanation.
In a similar way, I doubt all this business about your family - it's such an
irrelevant thing to bring into a discussion about a technical issue - it
sounds like another fabrication you've made up and thrown in just to cause
conflict and confusion.
I don't quite get what it is you find so attractive about trolling, but I do
regret being sucked in and trying to offer help.
A
Andy Wood
.. . .
Ok Mark, I have come up with a solution for you.
I have to warn you that it will take some effort, but it is guaranteed
to solve your clipping problem.
You will need to gather the the right tools and parts first:
Anti-static mat and wrist strap.
250W soldering iron.
About 25cm of 2.5mm diameter pure silver wire.
One of Bob's ESR meters (if you are lucky you might still find one at
DSE, otherwise Bob says there is a mob in Canada that supply them).
A large assortment of those Black Gate capacitors - perhaps you have
some left over?
A big sheet of bubble wrap.
This is what you need to do:
I'm sure you have heard that some electronic components are sensitive
to static electricity, so only work on the anti-static mat and ground
yourself with the wrist strap.
Open up the amplifier - sorry, I mean the secret device, and locate
the diodes in the power supply circuitry. You said that the voltage
drop across these can be ignored, but that is just not true - voltage
drop across a diode can be a killer, so those diodes have to go. As
you no doubt know, silver is a very good conductor, so for minimum
voltage drop you need to replace all the diodes with a short length of
the silver wire. You will probably need to drill out the holes in the
PCB a little to do this. Unfortunately, silver is also a good
conductor of heat so this is where you will need the the 250W
soldering iron.
Now I know you have already been through the "recapping" process, but
you have more work to do. With those Black Gate caps being so good, a
few more in there are bound to work wonders, and you can achieve this
by replacing all low value resistors with some of the wonder caps. Of
course, to do this you have to know what value of capacitor is
equivalent to a particular resistor, and this is where Bob's magic
device comes in - you see, it will give you a resistance measurement
for a capacitor! Paradoxically, good capacitors usually have low
equivalent resistance, so you might have to use many capacitors in
series to get the required value, but then that is really good news
because you can cram more of that Black goodness in there.
Once you have done that you can replace the cover and then wrap the
whole thing carefully in bubble wrap and secure it with tape or
string, and then carefully place it in the garbage bin.
Andy Wood
[email protected]
Ok Mark, I have come up with a solution for you.
I have to warn you that it will take some effort, but it is guaranteed
to solve your clipping problem.
You will need to gather the the right tools and parts first:
Anti-static mat and wrist strap.
250W soldering iron.
About 25cm of 2.5mm diameter pure silver wire.
One of Bob's ESR meters (if you are lucky you might still find one at
DSE, otherwise Bob says there is a mob in Canada that supply them).
A large assortment of those Black Gate capacitors - perhaps you have
some left over?
A big sheet of bubble wrap.
This is what you need to do:
I'm sure you have heard that some electronic components are sensitive
to static electricity, so only work on the anti-static mat and ground
yourself with the wrist strap.
Open up the amplifier - sorry, I mean the secret device, and locate
the diodes in the power supply circuitry. You said that the voltage
drop across these can be ignored, but that is just not true - voltage
drop across a diode can be a killer, so those diodes have to go. As
you no doubt know, silver is a very good conductor, so for minimum
voltage drop you need to replace all the diodes with a short length of
the silver wire. You will probably need to drill out the holes in the
PCB a little to do this. Unfortunately, silver is also a good
conductor of heat so this is where you will need the the 250W
soldering iron.
Now I know you have already been through the "recapping" process, but
you have more work to do. With those Black Gate caps being so good, a
few more in there are bound to work wonders, and you can achieve this
by replacing all low value resistors with some of the wonder caps. Of
course, to do this you have to know what value of capacitor is
equivalent to a particular resistor, and this is where Bob's magic
device comes in - you see, it will give you a resistance measurement
for a capacitor! Paradoxically, good capacitors usually have low
equivalent resistance, so you might have to use many capacitors in
series to get the required value, but then that is really good news
because you can cram more of that Black goodness in there.
Once you have done that you can replace the cover and then wrap the
whole thing carefully in bubble wrap and secure it with tape or
string, and then carefully place it in the garbage bin.
Andy Wood
[email protected]
B
Bob Parker
I was drinking some coffee while I read that, and I *almost* sprayed
the monitor when I started laughing!
Very well done Andy - thanks.
Bob
D
dmm
I was drinking some coffee while I read that, and I *almost* sprayed
the monitor when I started laughing!
Very well done Andy - thanks.
Bob
Perhaps Mark could check the variability of his mains supply with this gadget...
http://www.engadget.com/photos/art-lebedevs-vilcus-dactyloadapter/198275/
B
Bob Parker
Hehehehe!
M
Mark
As Phil surmised; no that isn't it. The schematic calls for only 9 VAC
input. The wall-wart measures at only 11.2 VAC, unloaded.
input. The wall-wart measures at only 11.2 VAC, unloaded.
swanny said:
B
Bob Parker
The techs in sci.electronics.repair are a much less bullying lot
than the aggressive riff-raff here.
They're sure to welcome a vague question about an unidentified item
of audiophile equipment, and being lectured about their manners when
they ask for enough information to be able to give any advice. ;-)
Bob
M
Mark
What a stupendously stupid proposition to make.
The topographic particulars of any individual post has NO IMPACT whatsoever
on the chronology or the EXTERNAL thread structure of any given subject of
conversation on Usenet, AFAIK.
If you have a reader that CAN thread conversations based on the internal
topographic details of the text of individual posts, then good for you, but
you can't expect others to adjust their habits for the peculiar capabilities
of your reader.
The topographic particulars of any individual post has NO IMPACT whatsoever
on the chronology or the EXTERNAL thread structure of any given subject of
conversation on Usenet, AFAIK.
If you have a reader that CAN thread conversations based on the internal
topographic details of the text of individual posts, then good for you, but
you can't expect others to adjust their habits for the peculiar capabilities
of your reader.
