Internal wiring of USA v UK mains plug

[James Sweet]

Unfortunately in the UK, electricity costs ~ 3 times more than electricity
per
kWh so the efficiency of heat pumps saves you no money on your heating
bill here
if you have gas available.

Natural gas is the standard heating fuel in most part of the US.
Unfortunately the cost has more than tripled in the last decade or so,
making heat pumps an attractive alternative. I installed an air source heat
pump in my house a few years ago and saw significant savings.

 

[krw]

Natural gas is the standard heating fuel in most part of the US.
Unfortunately the cost has more than tripled in the last decade or so,
making heat pumps an attractive alternative. I installed an air source heat
pump in my house a few years ago and saw significant savings.

Are the "lifetime" savings significant? Of course this all depends
on the local costs of both electricity and gas. Both vary widely
across the country (some places even resistive heat is cheaper than
gas).

 

[James Sweet]

Are the "lifetime" savings significant? Of course this all depends
on the local costs of both electricity and gas. Both vary widely
across the country (some places even resistive heat is cheaper than
gas).

Well I wanted air con anyway so given the difference in cost between AC and
a heat pump it's already paid for itself and then some, but then I did use
scratch & dent surplus equipment and installed it myself so it didn't really
cost very much to do. Electricity is about $0.08/kwh and gas is about
$1.30/Therm.

 

[krw]

Well I wanted air con anyway so given the difference in cost between AC and
a heat pump it's already paid for itself and then some, but then I did use
scratch & dent surplus equipment and installed it myself so it didn't really
cost very much to do.

I've been told that heat pumps have a fairly short life, at least
compared to furnaces/boilers. My boiler is 21YO and going strong. Of
course, air-source heat pumps are out here and ground source is still
way too expensive.

Electricity is about $0.08/kwh and gas is about $1.30/Therm.

Our electricity is $.13/kWh, and gas somewhere around $1.40/therm.
We're considering moving soon, and air-source heat pumps seem to be
all the rage where we're considering (hence my interest). Of course
electricity is about $.06/kWh there, with far milder winters too.

 

[Rich Grise]

Work it out. The element is entirely surrounded by the water you want to
heat. So all the energy, apart from that conducted bak into the cable,
passes into the water. Most electric kettles these days are plastic, so
not much gets throgh the sides. Rather more escapes through the top,
especially while the kettle is actually boiling- I use this energy to
preheat the teapot. So efficiency is pretty good. A more powerful kettle
is better because there is less heat lost through the top and sides when
you are heating it.

As for gas, most of the energy simply wafts round the outside of the
kettle, and never heats the water at all- it just heats the universe.
Which isn't to say that it's not generally the best way to cook.

So you need pots and pans with heatsink fins on the bottom. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[bz]

Because the heating system now driven by ground source heat pump
system, which take 3-4 time less power for same amount of heat. This
is a key feature and will reduce electric bill by 3-4 time, cheaper
than gas heater.
You no longer requires 25A and hence reduces to 20A as orginal circuit
design limits may allows. You may risk damage to cable and connection
if you keep 25A fuse.

If the 25A fuse was no risk during the time when it was needed, then it
should be no risk when it is unnecessary.

I understand that if the heat pump requires less current, then you can
save money, but changing the fuses from 25 A to 20 A will make little or
no difference, by itself, in the bill (unless the 25 a fuse has high
internal resistance. And I would expect a 25 A fuse to have LOWER internal
resistance than a 20 A fuse, so I don't think the fuse makes the
difference.



--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

[email protected] remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

 

[James Sweet]

I've been told that heat pumps have a fairly short life, at least
compared to furnaces/boilers. My boiler is 21YO and going strong. Of
course, air-source heat pumps are out here and ground source is still
way too expensive.

I have no idea how long a boiler lasts, but heat pumps can and do last 20 or
more years if it's a decent system properly installed, I know of at least
one old GE unit from the mid 70s which is still trucking along. Thousands of
them are needlessly replaced due to small issues that could be easily fixed,
but HVAC contractors are always eager to sell a new system and will come up
with every excuse they can to do so.

 

[[email protected]]

There are two parts to the bill, one consumption part, which obviosuly
is not affected by this, and then a fixed part, which is dependent on
the installed main fuse. The weaker the fuse, the less the fixed part
is.

When we moved in there was different tariffs for 16, 20, 25, 35A, but
after a few years they dropped the 16 and 20 A tariffs. Now they are
reinstating them.

It will increase the fixed part by about $150 a year, which is not
enough for me to bother. I rather not have to get out and replace
blown fuses.

Installing some load management to save 150 a year might be worth it,
perhaps an opening for a product there.


NT

 

[[email protected]]

You also have to account for losses at the kettle itself. They do not
transfer 100% of the energy,

yes they do. There isnt anywhere else for it to go.

and the higher wattage units radiate a lot
more, so they are slightly lossy-er.

no, they radiate less total energy because they take 1/3 the time and
radiated power is no different to a 1kW unit, since that depends
entirely on water temp and kettle shape & finish.


NT

 

[[email protected]]

"P" is pence? Roughly 44 cents/kwh? Yikes!

Yes, but its not as bad as it sounds. Bills are made up of charge per
kWh and a fixed standing charge for the supply. The 44c/kWh rate only
occurs where people choose a no standing charge deal, where the first
so many units are hiked in price to add the standing charge. Its just
a marketing game.


NT

 

[Spurious Response]

Eh? Most plastics are poor conductors of heat.

Read what I said again. Sure, most plastics are poor conductors of
heat, however, most, if not all plastics with high temperature capacity
are much better conductors of heat than their intolerant relatives.

In other words, if it is a high temp tolerant plastic, it conducts heat
far better than any plastic you might be thinking of. Kinda goes with the
territory.

Now silicone, SOFT plastic types do insulate thermally. That is
different, and there are not a large number of them in that category. We
are talking about solid, construction capable type materials here.
The plastic that would be used on a vat of boiling water as a major
element of its containment would likely be a fair conductor of heat.

The reason low tolerance plastic types have such a low tolerance is
because of their lack of thermal conduction. Apply heat to the surface,
and it stays there. This is a bad thing when said heat can make said
surface reach a melting temperature fairly fast.

 

[Spurious Response]

If you're there to reduce the heat, why not simply use the boiling water?

A lot of dishes require a maintained boil point... Like pasta, for
example.

So things like lids allow continued boiling even after heat reduction.
No lid... no boil... Unless you bring the heat back up. Which is what
the lid id good for.

 

[Spurious Response]

Good grief. Most just want that cup of tea *now*.

I am willing to extend my "now" period in order to conserve a few
dollars at the end of the month when the gas bill arrives.

 

[Thomas Tornblom]

Installing some load management to save 150 a year might be worth it,
perhaps an opening for a product there.

There are plenty of load limiters on the Swedish market and have been
at least since the 70:s. They work by temporarily cutting out electric
radiators or boilers. The only thing I can now without too much
inconveniance cut out during an overload is the additional heater
element in the heatpump, which kicks in if the output of the heatpump
is not enough during really cold weather. In a situation like this we
are highly unlikely to run the washer, dryer and stove on full blast
anyway.

Some heatpumps have built in limiters that will cut out the extra
heater on overload.

I might give weaker fuses a try over the winter anyway. I can install
the weaker 20A fuses myself, but to get the lower rate I have to tell
the electrical company to change fuse plugs so that I can no longer use
the stronger 25A fuses, and if I do that now, I can not immediatebly
change back in the winter if needed.

NT

Thomas

 

[Spurious Response]

Actually I believe that induction cooking is better, more easily
controlled and safer than gas.

Snippet from http://theinductionsite.com/how-induction-works.shtml

It look VERY inefficient.

It also REQUIRES iron cookware.

Two killers right there.

Tally:

Total Suckage.

In fact... it sucks so bad that it sucks at sucking.

 

[Lamey]

It look VERY inefficient.

It also REQUIRES iron cookware.

Two killers right there.

Tally:

Total Suckage.

In fact... it sucks so bad that it sucks at sucking.

And you should know all about sucking Prongtard.

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[Spurious Response]

no, they radiate less total energy because they take 1/3 the time and
radiated power is no different to a 1kW unit, since that depends
entirely on water temp and kettle shape & finish.

Sorry, but the difference in time heating 4 quarts of water in a 1kW
vat is NOT 3 times that of the 3kW unit.

There are constraints. The water has to still be there when you are
done.

If it takes a 1kW unit to heat it to boil in ten minutes, there is no
way in hell a 3kW unit will do it in three.

It is NOT linear, chucko.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Read what I said again. Sure, most plastics are poor conductors of
heat, however, most, if not all plastics with high temperature capacity
are much better conductors of heat than their intolerant relatives.

Still a better insulator than the sort of metals kettles would otherwise
be made of, though, which was the point.

In other words, if it is a high temp tolerant plastic, it conducts heat
far better than any plastic you might be thinking of. Kinda goes with the
territory.

Now silicone, SOFT plastic types do insulate thermally. That is
different, and there are not a large number of them in that category. We
are talking about solid, construction capable type materials here.
The plastic that would be used on a vat of boiling water as a major
element of its containment would likely be a fair conductor of heat.

The reason low tolerance plastic types have such a low tolerance is
because of their lack of thermal conduction. Apply heat to the surface,
and it stays there. This is a bad thing when said heat can make said
surface reach a melting temperature fairly fast.

Think you're missing the point that the water restricts the maximum
temperature.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

A lot of dishes require a maintained boil point... Like pasta, for
example.

You do pasta in a kettle? Have you some secret way of getting it to align
so it can be poured?

So things like lids allow continued boiling even after heat reduction.
No lid... no boil... Unless you bring the heat back up. Which is what
the lid id good for.

You've found a source of open kettles then? Is this a US thing? I don't
think they would conform to UK H&S regs. Do you dip the cup into them to
get the boiling water out?

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I am willing to extend my "now" period in order to conserve a few
dollars at the end of the month when the gas bill arrives.

So use a proper electric kettle. That will save your gas bill.