If there's a wifi or wireless connection nearby is it moral to tap inand use it?

[Rod Speed]

Logging is one thing - it's the data stream that I wonder about.
Capture that and I'm rooted.

So what you are saying is that with a secure PC as I described it should be
safe if I screw the F/W down tight and watch it.

I didnt say it very clearly, I meant that you need to be careful
about what you do over the wireless link, like encrypting email
that you care about etc, in case its being captured etc. Obviously
you may not give a damn about email that is discussing someone
having taken the cat to the vet etc, but other stuff may matter more.

And also assuming the AP is not set up as a honeypot to do data capture.

Correct ?

No, I was clumsily saying that it wouldnt be a great idea
to be doing online purchases etc on a 'borrowed' wireless
network. Stuff like share trading in spades.

There's got to be some who deliberately leave their wireless
network open to see what suckers they can catch.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Haha.. translation: That law doesnt exsist...

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag even
if its pathetic excuse for a 'life' depended on it.

except in nt now lets fight about wether or not NT is a real state.

Have a look at what the T in NT stands for, fuckwit child.

AND it aint where the OP is anyway, you silly little pig ignorant fuckwit child.

Oh a different penalty now, thats pretty clever
for a law you claimed doesnt even exsist...

I clearly said it doesnt exist IN ANY STATE, you lying fuckwit child.

It doesnt, it only exists in the Northern TERRITORY, you silly little
lying fuckwit child. AND even the sole example of a trepass act that
does exist in the northern TERRITORY doesnt say anything like
you pig ignorantly claimed, you silly little lying fuckwit child.

Your in idiot rod, you say the law doesnt exsist, yet it clearly does

You're a liar, fuckwit child, I actually said that
THERE IS NO TRESPASS ACT IN ANY STATE.

And I happen to know the trespass act is in force in all states.

No such ACT in any state, you silly little pig ignorant fuckwit child.

AND you are just plain wrong about the detail of the CRIME of
trespass in every single state, you silly little pig ignorant fuckwit child.

How do i know? I'm a bouncer,

Figures. So stupid that that's all you qualify for.

its my job to enforce this law.

Lying, as always. No bouncer gets to enforce any
law, you silly little pig ignorant posturing fuckwit child.

You can pull links to NT law out of your ass all week for
all i care, try looking up civil laws, and national laws..

Not one of which actually says anything like
you pig ignorantly claimed about trespass.

as for me? I'm over it.

SURE you are, child.

 

[Rod Speed]

I dont care who made it, the point is its there.

Pity there is no TRESPASS ACT as you pig ignorantly
claimed except in the NT and even that one says nothing
like what you pig ignorantly claimed it said anyway.

Which rod tried to deny.

Lying, as always. I said that there is no trespass act in ANY STATE, liar.

 

[Rod Speed]

Ok, firstly it would be a very rare average user
who ended up looking at this NG, and an even rarer
average user who knew how to set up security on a
wifi properly. Many wifi systems are such that any
attempts to reset them will result in non operation
until they are set up properly, a difficult task for
most average users. Thus most find that they work
out of the box and go back to the default settings
when any difficulties arise. Thus leaving them open.

What I would like to see is the wifi router manufacturers
make them with a special thumb drive included. All the
wifi routers that I have dealt with were all adjustable
via a web page within the router and a usb link. You
enter your network details in the router, add in a base
word for coding algorythm to be based on. then the router
uploads adjustments to the thumb drive. You then plug
the thumb drive into each machine to be allowed access
and run the program on it. The thumb drive then updates
the relevant parts of the computer seciruty setting to
match the router based on the new algorythm. Very simple
to do - similar to the old MS ICS disk process. Then
you would have easy set up security for each network that
any dunce can use.

In fact that is precisely what the XP SP2 wireless wizard allows.

Using a thumb drive too.

 

[Colin ®]

In fact that is precisely what the XP SP2 wireless wizard allows.

Using a thumb drive too.

True but you can break out of the wizard. What Deadly suggests is that you
have to use it ( I think)

PCs are sold as being as safe and easy as a toaster. WiFi is not and the
average punter does not know that and is not told.

They are told not to write their PIN number on their CC etc. but not told
that they have effectively done it by firing up an unsecured network using
the MS inbound-only FW.

 

[Colin ®]

Thanks Rod, got it.

Colin

 

[Martin]

Just out of curiousity if anyone did tap into a wifi network they found.
Even if they were detected how would anyone know where the tresspasser
lived let alone be able to do anything to them? I do not condone this
behaviour at all however all these laws and such are of no use if you have
no idea who is breaking them.

Don't forget that a WiFi signal can be tracked just like any other radio
signal. At those frequencies it wouldn't be very hard to track the signal
to the offenders location.

 

[Martin]

You have not read the trespass act rod.
If you leave your house unlocked and someone comes in thats not illigal
just immoral.

Wrong - it's still break & enter.

They are not breaking any laws unless you tell them to leave and they
dont. Then its trespass.

Wrong - it's still private property. It's still illegal to enter private
property without permission or legal excuse...

You need to go do your security course again.....

 

[Martin]

Rod Speed wrote:



Haha.. translation: That law doesnt exsist... except in nt now lets
fight about wether or not NT is a real state.


Oh a different penalty now, thats pretty clever for a law you claimed
doesnt even exsist...

Your in idiot rod, you say the law doesnt exsist, yet it clearly does
And I happen to know the trespass act is in force in all states.
How do i know? I'm a bouncer, its my job to enforce this law.
You can pull links to NT law out of your ass all week for all i care,
try looking up civil laws, and national laws.. as for me? I'm over it.

Your an idiot, go do your security course again (besides "bouncers" really
shouldn't be classed as security)..

In NSW it's the "Inclosed Lands Protection Act", which states:

(1) Any person who, without lawful excuse (proof of which lies on the
person), enters into inclosed lands without the consent of the owner,
occupier or person apparently in charge of those lands, or who remains on
those lands after being requested by the owner, occupier or person
apparently in charge of those lands to leave those lands, is liable to a
penalty not exceeding:
(a) 10 penalty units in the case of prescribed premises, or
(b) 5 penalty units in any other case.
So, stuffing up your earlier post which said:

If you leave your house unlocked and someone comes in thats not illigal
just immoral.

You are WRONG (in NSW anyway, not going to start looking at laws in other
states/territories).

And, there is NO "Tresspass Act" in Commonwealth law, so your "knowledge" is
WRONG! I suggest you go back and redo any security course you think you
did.. If you were in NSW you should've failed 'cause you need to know the
Inclosed Lands Protection Act by name and what it means...

And as for knowing for sure, considering I have arrested more than one
person under this Act, and the Police have had a successful prosecution, I'm
fairly confident that I know what this Act meant.. How about you?

Oh, and please tell us where you work as a "bouncer" 'cause I for one would
like to avoid that place if this is the level of knowledge the security
staff have on the laws!

 

[Rod Speed]

Wrong - it's still break & enter.

Not break, just enter.

Wrong - it's still private property. It's still illegal to enter
private property without permission or legal excuse...
Correct.

You need to go do your security course again.....

There's a reason its a bouncer...

 

[Martin]

DalienX committed to the eternal aether...:


He's arguing that there's no "act" and he's correct. You said "read the
trespass act", and of course there isn't one, just a heap of case law.

He's just another moron that slept through his security course and got past
simply because he paid his fee. Knowing about the various "incosed lands"
acts and tresspass is basic in every security course and as he claims to be
a "bouncer" he would've had to do such a course.....

 

[Martin]

Damian wrote:



Thats why you should always lock your door.
That way you can get them on break and enter.

Do you even know the definition of "break" in break & enter???

 

[Rod Speed]

True but you can break out of the wizard.

Sure, but he didnt say it had to be mandatory to use it.

What Deadly suggests is that you have to use it ( I think)

Cant see where he said anything like that. He appeared to be
saying that most users dont turn decent security on because
they decide that its too hard, and that using a thumb drive
would make it easy enough for even the stupidest user to do.

That is precisely what the XP SP2 wireless wizard does using a thumb drive.

PCs are sold as being as safe and easy as a toaster.
Bullshit.

WiFi is not and the average punter does not know that and is not told.

My latest wireless laptop certainly does tell them.

So does MS too.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/expert/bowman_03july28.mspx

They are told not to write their PIN number on their CC etc. but not told that
they have effectively done it by firing up an unsecured network using the MS
inbound-only FW.

Bullshit they have.

 

[Colin ®]

That is precisely what the XP SP2 wireless wizard does using a thumb
drive.


Bullshit.

Bullshit right back - that's the whole sales push. Internet anywhere anytime
with turkeys in airports and under trees in a park doing business in the TV
ads.

My latest wireless laptop certainly does tell them.

Well my 6 month old VIAO may have ( can't remember) but it sure went on line
without enforcing any security or any flag waving.

So does MS too.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/expert/bowman_03july28.mspx

Average punter remember - that's the peanut who buys a lappie because the
droid says it's best.
They never go near sites that would help them ( That one is good - thanks)

Bullshit they have.

Expecting anything more of average users other than getting it working is a
dream.

Shit, half the PCs I fix don't even have A/V or they are a year out of date.
People just don't know.

 

[pony]

Just wondering what people's position is on this.


If you have a wireless or wifi internet connection in range
of your laptop or desktop machine and you tap in to use it
is it OK?

I would prolly try it for a bit then quickly log off and never
use it again because to me it would feel wrong to use it.

Go ahead and use it. They wouldn't be able to prove who was tapping into
it.

 

[pony]

geez, calm down buddy.

Clearly the law on this is a little loose. It says the trespasser can prove
it had an excuse for being in there without consent. If the doors are open,
then you would have a good case for saying that there is implied consent for
you to be on the property. Like any shop or complex. If it is a house,
then you would just say you were trying to get hold of the occupier to talk
to them. Clearly, unless they can show you had malicious or dubious
intent, you will be fine.

As for the analogy to the wireless network, if a network springs up on a
wifi list, the unsophisticated user would not know whether it is public or
private network. No different to a website owner saying its site is off
limits and not having any access control. A bit like having a shop with
open doors, and then the owner saying, "I never gave you consent to enter."

The idea that access a network counts as "trespass" has not been accepted by
the law. Statutes are used to protect networks.

 

[pony]

Yes I use them.

I have just come back from a trip to northern NSW and used one there for
email and a little surfing. And I will be in Geelong and Melbourne in the
next two weeks and will be looking for open wifi connections in both
places for the same purpose.

You mean like driving slowly past people's houses. Nice one!

 

[Rod Speed]

Clearly the law on this is a little loose.
Nope.

It says the trespasser can prove it had an excuse for being in there without
consent. If the doors are open, then you would have a good case for saying
that there is implied consent for you to be on the property.

Nope, not with a normal private house.

Like any shop or complex.

Nothing like.

If it is a house, then you would just say you were
trying to get hold of the occupier to talk to them.

You'd have to explain why you didnt just knock on the door.

Clearly, unless they can show you had malicious or dubious intent, you will be
fine.

Complete pig ignorant drivel. You dont get to open
any unlocked door and walk inside any house you like.

As for the analogy to the wireless network, if a network springs up on a wifi
list, the unsophisticated user would not know whether it is public or private
network.
Bullshit.

No different to a website owner saying its site is off limits and not having
any access control.

Completely different.

A bit like having a shop with open doors, and then the owner saying, "I never
gave you consent to enter."

Nothing like.

The idea that access a network counts as "trespass" has not been accepted by
the law.

Pig ignorant lie.

Statutes are used to protect networks.

Not a fucking clue.

 

[Rod Speed]

Bullshit right back

Still total bullshit.

- that's the whole sales push.
Bullshit.

Internet anywhere anytime with turkeys in airports and under trees in a park
doing business in the TV ads.

Nothing to do with toasters.

Well my 6 month old VIAO may have ( can't remember) but it sure went on line
without enforcing any security or any flag waving.

Separate matter entirely.

Average punter remember - that's the peanut who buys a lappie because the
droid says it's best.
They never go near sites that would help them
Bullshit.

( That one is good - thanks)

Expecting anything more of average users other than getting it working is a
dream.

Separate matter entirely to that mindless bullshit about writing
the PIN number on their credit card. Nothing like that in fact.

Shit, half the PCs I fix don't even have A/V or they are a year out of date.
People just don't know.

Separate matter entirely to that mindless bullshit about writing
the PIN number on their credit card. Nothing like that in fact.

 

[Rod Speed]

Go ahead and use it. They wouldn't be able to prove who was tapping into it.

Not a fucking clue, as always.