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EU lead-free directive

A

Alex Gibson

Peter said:
Hi,

This comes in mid-2006 and AIUI requires that lead content is below
0.1%.

Surely, one could achieve this by making the overall product heavier?

Or does it work on a per-circuit-board basis? In that case, the lead
in standard solder will probably weigh more than 0.1% of the weight of
the populated PCB....

This could be a serious problem for any company that is slowly running
down a stock of old chips. These won't be lead-free, and neither will
be any chips purchased from the many used chip vendors who pass on
surplus stock. I expect a lot of their business will dry up since many
companies are requiring *zero* lead content on *all* components.

Any views?

Ship the remaining parts somewhere that hasn't gone lead free yet.

Non-Eu countries in Europe.
Dump all the lead components to Bulgaria , Romania, Ukraine, Albania and
former Yugoslav countries.

or elsewhere
Asia , Australia ,Central and South America , Africa ?

Alex
 
R

Rene Tschaggelar

Pooh Bear wrote:

It's stupid legislation that will merely increase the price of goods to no
real beneficial effect and possibly put a number od small firms out of
business. Funny ( ha ha - not ) since one of the leading ( lol )
principles was that it should have *no* effect on cost.

That's Brussels for you. Getting kind of sick of the Commission telling us
what we can and can't do. They aren't elected either.

The japanese were able to implement leadfree a decade ago.

Rene
 
R

Robert Latest

["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.design.]
Probably because they're bureaucrats, i.e., have no concept of the way
real reality works. ;-)

It isn't because "they" are bureaucrats (they are, of course).
Just think about how politics work (or watch a few episodes of
"West Wing"). Funny stuff like this everywhere, but in the long
run it'll hopefully change things for the better.

robert
 
R

Robert Latest

["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.design.]
That certainly seems to apply to the more inexplicable exceptions (lead
is allowed in servers, storage devices, and network infrastructure devices).

This is plenty explicable. The manufacturers of this equipment
claim (with some validity) that there isn't much known about the
long-term stability of the lead-free stuff, and since companies
and governments and whatnot rely on reliable IT infrastructure
they can't run the risk of switching over to a new technology.

robert
 
D

David Brown

Robert said:
["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.design.]
That certainly seems to apply to the more inexplicable exceptions (lead
is allowed in servers, storage devices, and network infrastructure devices).


This is plenty explicable. The manufacturers of this equipment
claim (with some validity) that there isn't much known about the
long-term stability of the lead-free stuff, and since companies
and governments and whatnot rely on reliable IT infrastructure
they can't run the risk of switching over to a new technology.

robert

What about the rest of us that make electronics designed to last for
decades? I fully understand the desire to remove lead from throw-away
electronics, of which there is more and more these days. But there is a
lot electronics produced that is a lot harder to replace than a network
switch, or with greater consequences of failure than a typical server.
A far more practical arrangement than a blanket ban on lead, except for
groups with loud lobbyists, would have been a tax on lead-containing
electronics along with obligatory marking of such cards. The tax would
start small, and increase over the years, and be used to finance
recycling plants. Then mass manufacturers would use lead-free to save
their profits, while smaller and specialist manufacturers could choose.
 
P

Peter

Robert Latest said:
This is plenty explicable. The manufacturers of this equipment
claim (with some validity) that there isn't much known about the
long-term stability of the lead-free stuff, and since companies
and governments and whatnot rely on reliable IT infrastructure
they can't run the risk of switching over to a new technology.

That is very strange - what about industrial electronics; that has to
last much longer than the average piece of IT gear.

What *is* known about lead-free solders, in the SMT context, is that
their lack of surface tension makes the reflow process more critical,
and one could do without that. SMT is a difficult process already,
requiring everything to be spot on right. Unlike PTH soldering.
 
J

John Devereux

That is very strange - what about industrial electronics; that has to
last much longer than the average piece of IT gear.

As I understand it, Industrial electronics appears to be exempt from
the RoHS directive, at present. (But not from the WEEE one).
What *is* known about lead-free solders, in the SMT context, is that
their lack of surface tension makes the reflow process more critical,
and one could do without that. SMT is a difficult process already,
requiring everything to be spot on right. Unlike PTH soldering.

Agreed.
 
P

Peter

John Devereux said:
As I understand it, Industrial electronics appears to be exempt from
the RoHS directive, at present. (But not from the WEEE one).

Hmmm. Interesting! Is there a reference to this somewhere? Currently,
every customer is sending us a list of questions about this. Would
"industrial" be anything "professional" e.g. professional broadcast
equipment?

What is WEEE?
 
J

John Devereux

Hmmm. Interesting! Is there a reference to this somewhere? Currently,
every customer is sending us a list of questions about this. Would
"industrial" be anything "professional" e.g. professional broadcast
equipment?

Hi Peter,

Checkout the "Re: A european question : RoHS" thread (in S.E.D). Links
to the directives are:

<http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/2003/l_037/l_03720030213en00190023.pdf>

and

<http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/2003/l_037/l_03720030213en00240038.pdf>

See Article 2 section 1 of RoHS, which refers to Annex IA of the WEEE
document.

What is WEEE?

I am *so* not an expert on this.... But as I understand it, WEEE is
about making sure manufacturers bear the cost of recycling products
made with "hazardous" substances. For example, by providing recyling
schemes, collecting the unwanted items etc.

RoHS on the other hand *prohibits* such manufacture in the first
place, with some exceptions. It appears that industrial equipment is
one such!
 
T

Tilmann Reh

Peter said:
What is WEEE?

"Waste of Eletrical and Electronic Equipment" - another new EU directive.

Basically, it is about that manufacturers of EE products must guarantie to take
them back without cost. They also must be marked as devices that shall not be
dropped into "normal" waste.
This one applies to the companies that first sell anything to the (normally
private) end customer, B2B is less concerned (if at all).

There surely are online documents about it, but I don't have links at hand...
 
D

Dave Hansen

Yes, a deposit on them, say $400. You pay it once, and redeem it by
handing in the old battery. Like we used to do with bottles in the 60s.

FWIW, here in Michigan, there is a core charge for lead-acid car
batteries, though I believe it's much less than $400. I'm not sure of
the exact amount, because the core cancels when you replace a battery
(here's my old one, give me a new one).

[...]
Shouldn't be too difficult to extract the lead from PCBs, if the
political will is there (roast them at 300 degrees in a centrifuge?) We
need to encourage recovery and re-use over dumping anyway.

PCB metals recycling has been around a long time. Usually, though,
they're after stuff more valuable than lead.

Regards,

-=Dave
 
J

Jim Stewart

Luhan said:
Thanks, I have never seen that. Looks like how I work anyway. Except
the 'bribery' part. We needed the use of a TV studio once, but the
engineer didn't work weekends. So we scheduled 4 hours studio time on
Saturday, paid for the studio time, and slipped 2 nice crisp $100 bills
to the engineer. He says 'any time guys'.

Sometimes the wheels of capitalism work better with a bit of lubrication.

That wasn't a bribe, just some casual compensation.
You didn't pay him to do anything unlawful. Of course
I'm not a lawyer and that's not legal advise :)
 
GMM50 said:
Oh so management will take the blame.... I don't think so.

Actually no. Engineering's job is to specify the right part.
Purchasing's job is to buy the right part. The vendor's job is to
supply the right part.

If Engineering has a RoHS compliance cert for part ABC Engineering is
OK.

If Purchasing requires the vendor to provide a RoHS compliance cert for
inbound shipments of part ABC, Purchasing is OK.

If the vendor ships part ABC, and part ABC is compliant, the vendor is
OK.

As long as you spec in a part and require it to be RoHS-compliant, any
problems that happen with the RoHS side of things are a fight between
Purchasing and the vendor.
 
P

Pooh Bear

Luhan said:
Thanks, I have never seen that. Looks like how I work anyway. Except
the 'bribery' part. We needed the use of a TV studio once, but the
engineer didn't work weekends. So we scheduled 4 hours studio time on
Saturday, paid for the studio time, and slipped 2 nice crisp $100 bills
to the engineer. He says 'any time guys'.

Sometimes the wheels of capitalism work better with a bit of lubrication.

In India you can pay 'rush money' to get the wheels of bureaucracy to speed up a little. It's apparently considered perfectly acceptable. Oh - never mind the
business with customs at Bombay airport !

Graham
 
P

Pooh Bear

Paul said:
Shouldn't be too difficult to extract the lead from PCBs, if the
political will is there (roast them at 300 degrees in a centrifuge?)

That probably produces dioxins !

I've seen stuff about 'recycling' pcbs and I can't believe there's any
sense in it.

Graham
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

In India you can pay 'rush money' to get the wheels of bureaucracy to speed up a little. It's apparently considered perfectly acceptable. Oh - never mind the
business with customs at Bombay airport !

Graham

Yup, one of the irritating things for people who move from such places
to more "civilized" countries is that you often *can't* speed things
up by paying what is usually a pittance more. The civil servants are
unionized, relatively well paid and generally incorruptable.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
P

Pooh Bear

John said:
What do you make of:

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/2003/l_037/l_03720030213en00190023.pdf

"Applications of lead, mercury, cadmium and hexavalent chromium, which
are exempted from the requirements of Article 4(1)...
7. — Lead in high melting temperature type solders (i.e. tin-lead
solder alloys containing more than 85 % lead)"

Why would they make an exception for solder that has over double the
lead of that most commonly used for electronics? Does this mean that
if producers of electronics can find a way to use 85% lead solder,
they are exempt?

I suspect, since I was looking at some RoHS stuff today, that's intended to allow
high lead solders for die attach in semiconductors.

I rather though that was *low* melting point though !

Check this out.

http://uk.farnell.com/images/en/ede/pdf/PKG153.pdf


Graham
 
J

Jim Thompson

Sort of a moot issue isn't it?

The Dutch just voted down the EU Constitution.

...Jim Thompson
 
P

Pooh Bear

Peter said:
Hmmm. Interesting! Is there a reference to this somewhere? Currently,
every customer is sending us a list of questions about this. Would
"industrial" be anything "professional" e.g. professional broadcast
equipment?

What is WEEE?

Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment (WEEE) Directive.

Graham
 
P

Pooh Bear

Spehro said:
Yup, one of the irritating things for people who move from such places
to more "civilized" countries is that you often *can't* speed things
up by paying what is usually a pittance more. The civil servants are
unionized, relatively well paid and generally incorruptable.

That is broadly true.

I was however quite impressed that when I once needed to - I was able to get a 'next day' passport by going to one of the Passport Offices ( London was the
nearest to me ) in person at no extra cost IIRC - other than my travel cost of course. Had to show my airline ticket though. In very urgent cases I believe they
can do 'same day' too !

Graham
 
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