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Lead Free Soldering Iron

N

Nico Coesel

Phil Allison said:
"Nico Coesel"


** Again - are you nuts ?

230C will barely melt Pb free solder.

The normal setting on a good iron like the " Hakko " is 370C or a tad more
for Pb free.
Click to expand...

My bad. I meant 330 deg C. 370C is way too much. You'll burn the flux
before it can do it's work. Use a bigger tip.
 
S

SoothSayer

I happily use 400C (750F) with normal RMA and RA flux PbSn solder. For
small stuff, e.g. SMT rework, 650F is good enough, and the tips stay
cleaner.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Click to expand...


Lead free is higher temp.

We are currently dealing with a problem where a simple ground turret
pin in causing a solderability issue because it soaks up every microgram
(read calorie) of heat you put into it and will not wet the solder joint
correctly. We cannot attach the wire before installation either as the
pin is almost the same size as the threads.

We have to heat up the entire case and use two irons to get the reflow
characteristic that a proper solder joint requires.

We are RoHS exempt, but if we want a higher likelihood of euro
customers, we build RoHS in anyway.

So we cannot do anything with that case until that wire gets attached.
Can't change it either as it is a mil contract.
 
N

notbob

Mine always work properly.
For years and years. :)

I take it you've seen reliability problems?
What symptom(s)?

I was really pleased with Metcal support when I
experienced a (cough) pilot error early on.

Were they helpful in troubleshooting the
issue(s) you identified?
Click to expand...

"helpfull"!!??

For what they charge for 'em, they shoulda sent a naked woman out to
personally hand you a brand new replacement, then provide a free
(cough) massage.

nb
 
N

Nico Coesel

Phil Allison said:
"Nico Coesel"


** That is too low.
Click to expand...

If you use tips which are too small it is. But at 330C while using a
proper sized tip I get shiny lead free joints.
 
M

miso

Mine always work properly.
For years and years. :)

I take it you've seen reliability problems?
What symptom(s)?

I was really pleased with Metcal support when I
experienced a (cough) pilot error early on.

Were they helpful in troubleshooting the
issue(s) you identified?

--Winston
Click to expand...

I don't own one, but know two people who do. Metcals are troublesome,
but that is the price you pay. It is more complicated than a simple
thermally regulated resistive heating element iron.

Both guys buy junkers on the surplus market for parts and repair their
own Metcals.
 
M

miso

Start here:
<http://water.usgs.gov/ogw/data.html>
Type the words "lead landfill" into the search box and you'll get more
reports and statistics than I want to dig through this morning. I
couldn't find any historical data with a quick skim. If you find
something that substantiates your face or something interesting,
please post the URL.

Some random samples:

Ground-Water Contamination from Lead Shot at Prime Hook National
Wildlife Refuge, Sussex County, Delaware
<http://pubs.usgs.gov/wri/wri02-4282/>
Investigators have estimated that up to 58,000 shotgun pellets
per square foot are present in locations on the refuge where
the lead shot fell to the ground.

This is rather amusing:
Factors Controlling Elevated Lead Concentrations in
Water Samples from Aquifer Systems in Florida
<http://fl.water.usgs.gov/PDF_files/wri99_4020_katz.pdf>
One potential source of Pb contamination in
ground-water samples is the use of metallic Pb
as a float counterweight in a water-level recording
device.
Oops.

Also:
<http://water.epa.gov/scitech/datait/>
which has quite a bit of historical data.

I checked the water quality various reports from our local water
district. Pb shows as not detectable. Regulatory maximum is 15ppb.
Public health goal is 0.2ppb.
Click to expand...

Lead shot for sure. It is the electronic waste I wonder about. However,
the powers that be have spoken, and certainly less is more. It is hard
to defend dumping lead into the environment on an industrial scale.

Chuck Heston said "from my cold dead fingers". That is when I will turn
in my tin lead solder I use for home brew stuff.

I used to work with a guy that would hold the solder in his mouth if he
needed a third hand. In the very dark ages, kids (OK, young boys) had
moulds to make "tin" soldiers.

I hike a lot of "outback" areas and find shooting ranges on public land.
These impromptu shooting ranges are a fucking eco mess of epic
proportions. I can't imagine what kind of parents these assholes had.
Seriously, dragging an old TV out to the desert to shoot the crap out of
it? So we have the shells on the ground (not toxic), but the shot,
broken leaded glass, phosphor, etc. These shitheads give gun owners a
bad name.
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

I just ordered one. We shall see in about 2 weeks. My guess(tm) is
that it's a counterfeit as the real meter lists for $220.
Click to expand...

Counterfeit? From Shenzhen? Surely you jest..
;-)

It even says "Made in Japan" on the back, but with a Chinese battery.
<http://www.hmcelectronics.com/product/Hakko/FG100>
<http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fg100.html>
<http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysel...g-100-soldering-iron-tip-thermometer-on-ebay/>
I don't see any differences in the photos. Note that there are two
models -01 for C and -02 for F. You'll also need a collection of
replacement CA wire sensors.
Click to expand...

I see that the Chinese one comes with 10 pretty rough looking ones.
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

That should be a type K thermocouple.
Click to expand...

K = Chromel-Alumel = CA
If I had thought about it, I would have used a type K thermocouple and
a DVM (with a thermocouple sensor input).
Click to expand...

Of course, but the other thing is a bit more idiot-proof as far as
getting thermal contact with the (looks like) spring-loaded
thermocouple.
 
W

Winston

I don't own one, but know two people who do. Metcals are troublesome,
but that is the price you pay.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. I've had *lots* more reliability issues with my Wellers.
It is more complicated than a simple
thermally regulated resistive heating element iron.

Both guys buy junkers on the surplus market for parts and repair their
own Metcals.
Click to expand...


'Sort of problems Johnny Cash would have had with his 'psycobilly
automobile'?


:)

That might explain why I've not had any problems with mine....

--Winston
 
W

Winston

(...)


"helpfull"!!??
Click to expand...

That's a 'no' then..... :)
For what they charge for 'em, they shoulda sent a naked woman out to
personally hand you a brand new replacement, then provide a free (cough)
massage.
Click to expand...

Whoa. Your vendors don't act anything like my vendors. :)

--Winston
 
T

TheGlimmerMan

If you use tips which are too small it is. But at 330C while using a
proper sized tip I get shiny lead free joints.
Click to expand...

Just because they appear as "shiny" does not in any way mean that they
were properly constructed.
 
T

TheGlimmerMan

Which unleaded solder composition?
<http://www.empf.org/empfasis/jan05/lfaudit.htm>
Alloy Melting Temp
SnPb 183C
SnBi 138C
SnAgCuBi 215C
SnAgCu 218C
SnAg 221C
SnAgCuSb 222C
SnCu 227C
SnSb 240C
AuSn 280C

For lead free solders, the EMPF found that the solder tip
temperature needed to be set between 343°C / 650°F and
371°C / 700°F as opposed to 315°C / 599°F for tin lead solders.

Temperatures higher than 398°C / 750°F were considered
unnecessary for most hand soldering applications.

I don't use unleaded solder, so I don't have a clue where to set my
soldering iron. Here's why:
<http://www.hakko.com/english/lead_free/pages/>
...with lead-free solder (Sn-0.7Cu), the soldering iron
must be set to around 380C, which is close to the maximum
temperature for soldering. Such a high temperature also
causes shorter tip life (due to oxidation or erosion),
carbonization of the flux in the solder, and splashing of
the flux and solder. (It is said that using lead-free solder
decreases the tip life by 4 to 5 times compared with
eutectic solder.)
Click to expand...

The key to solder tip life is that you TURN OFF the device between
sessions! Hell, I turn it off between solder joints. It heats up in 5
seconds flat!

It is a VERY simple premise, and MY tips last TWENTY times longer than
ANYONE else's (actual solder joint count)

I have a 2" wide x 2 feet long strip of Velcro on the upper shelf of
the bench which has the solder station (there are several in the lab, but
this one is in the family of assets I get access to when I need it.)

I can stick many things to that Velcro, but the thing I like it for
most is that it is wider than the bench shelf I stuck it to, so the
bottom edge of it has a very sticky band facing away from the user.
I can stick my entire tip collection along that exposed back edge, and
they are all right there to grab when needed and replace when done. Far
better than digging in a drawer or toolbox bin. They are all also right
above the iron so even a monkey would have a hard time missing them. It
is also the perfect place to hang the flux brushes too!

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T

TheGlimmerMan

I checked the water quality various reports from our local water
district. Pb shows as not detectable. Regulatory maximum is 15ppb.
Public health goal is 0.2ppb.
Click to expand...


So much for all those copper piped (leaded seams) schools and leaded
pipe water fountains. Made us all dumb.
 
M

miso

So much for all those copper piped (leaded seams) schools and leaded
pipe water fountains. Made us all dumb.
Click to expand...

The lead was more of a problem on the hot water side. The heat caused
more lead enter the water. But they took lead out of the solder for
copper pipes just for that reason.

I've talked to the PEX peddlers a few times. [I'm due for a repipe to
get rid of the galvanized.] They claim PEX is safe even for drinking,
but I don't know.....

Apparently it is very tasty for rodents, so unless your construction is
set up for PEX, it is probably not good for a retrofit.
 
T

TheGlimmerMan

The lead was more of a problem on the hot water side. The heat caused
more lead enter the water. But they took lead out of the solder for
copper pipes just for that reason.
Click to expand...

Yeah? When?
 
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