Devcon Buys Out Coastal Security, Adelphia, & Guardian

R.H.Campbell · Nov 24, 2005

Why don't I feel comfortable with your agreeing to my sentiments ?

I guess it's because little else you have said about this industry seems to
come from a basis of any real knowledge. Jim and I may disagree vehemently
on long term contracts, but he is far from a self serving idiot ! He is to
my knowledge a small dealer like myself who does business in a different
manner, that's all - a manner btw which IS the norm in our industry. If
anything, I am the "duck out of water", but in my case it works for me.

I suggest you learn the facts before you come on this newgroup and do your
own "pontificating"...

RHC

Sonicduck said:
Mr Campbell said:

Frankly, I'm getting more than a little tired of your sanctimonious
bullshit
on this subject. You aren't doing anybody but yourself any favours. So
stop
hiding behind lofty ideals about long term survival for your clients
best
interests !

RHC

*******************************************************************************

I agree wholeheartedly.

Anyone who doesn't is a self serving idiot.

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html

Sonicduck · Nov 24, 2005

Emergency24 in Chicago for $4.50 per month per account. I charged
$14.95 per
month with 30 day written cancellation notice at anytime. I never had a
customer leave who wasn't moving.

*****************************************************************

There's a new supposedly up and coming monitoring center in Syracuse,
New York called "Rapid Response Monitoring", or http://www.rrms.com/

I wonder what they are charging....and Stanley, I realize you have to
make money to stay in business....and I don't want anyone dropping dead
by me saying this...but to be fair to the small business owners
here....

It is probably LESS expensive for a huge company like ADT, or Bell
South Security from Protection One, or BRINKS (that has only ONE
monitoring center, and whose own Brinks Armored Guard Division has been
said to be monitored by ADT) to monitor customers, than small business
owners, many of whom are posting here.

So, why pay a huge conglomerate for monitoring, when you can have
essentially the same exact services provided, for LESS money in most
cases, by a smaller dealer?

Name branding does LESS for your money, rather than more. If the huge
conglomerate screws up, they have deeper pockets to pay he lawyers to
get them out of a jam. The smaller guys HAVE to do a better job in the
beginning, during install, in order to KNOW that everything is OK, and
no one has to worry.

The bottom line is the small print, and in it, you will find so many
exclusions that absolutely NO SECURITY COMPANY out there will be found
liable if you get broken into while being monitored. Otherwise, you
would find hundreds, if not thousands of lawsuits yearly.

THAT is why I say security systems are a rip off, at least monitored
ones. Hell, put a few signs in your yard, and ten stickers or so on
your windows. No one in their right mind (not that crooks are anyways)
would try to break in. They don't know (other than the signs) what you
have or don't have.

Signs and Stickers are your first line of defense.

Or....sign up for a year or two, get the signs and stickers, get new
ones as your contract nears the end, and then cancel.

alarman · Nov 24, 2005

Sonicduck said:
The bottom line is the small print, and in it, you will find so many
exclusions that absolutely NO SECURITY COMPANY out there will be found
liable if you get broken into while being monitored. Otherwise, you
would find hundreds, if not thousands of lawsuits yearly.

THAT is why I say security systems are a rip off,

<snip>

<sigh>
People do not buy security systems so that the alarm company will be held
responsible for their loss. Is there anything that you know something
about??
js

mikey · Nov 24, 2005

Well, maybe I don't get the math:
30 x 15 = 450 per account, a thousand accounts would get you 45,000-
ooops 450, 000-
oh, that's a whole new ballgame and that's just selling the accounts, not
the business.
Why aren't you driving a V-Rod? Well, I don't mean right now hahaha

Anybody, check my math
So a business generating 15K a month RMR is worth at least half a million.
The business would sell for more than that? name, goodwill, ?
Any sort of rule of them? Double it?

mikey · Nov 24, 2005

If you're uncomfortable discusing it, pardon me for asking but the scenario
intrigues.
How did you negotiate your salary with company and how did you arrive at a
consulting fee,
wouldn't they just send you to your own accounts to fix them?

Frank Olson · Nov 24, 2005

Sonicquack said:
Emergency24 in Chicago for $4.50 per month per account. I charged
$14.95 per
month with 30 day written cancellation notice at anytime. I never had a
customer leave who wasn't moving.

*****************************************************************

There's a new supposedly up and coming monitoring center in Syracuse,
New York called "Rapid Response Monitoring", or http://www.rrms.com/

You obviously haven't visited their website. I wouldn't call being
founded in 1992 either "new" or "supposedly up and coming". They're
employing a slick new webmaster though... If they used a "bent" instead
of a motorcycle in their "Shockwave" opening page, you'd see Mark L.
posting from somewhere in NY in no time.

"Serving Dealers who want to exceed the expectations of their own
subscribers and being the best provider of monitoring services,
protecting lives and property, anywhere." (http://www.rrms.com/history.html)

I wonder what they are charging....and Stanley, I realize you have to
make money to stay in business....and I don't want anyone dropping dead
by me saying this...but to be fair to the small business owners
here....

It is probably LESS expensive for a huge company like ADT, or Bell
South Security from Protection One, or BRINKS (that has only ONE
monitoring center, and whose own Brinks Armored Guard Division has been
said to be monitored by ADT) to monitor customers, than small business
owners, many of whom are posting here.

The cost of monitoring your account base goes down with each customer
you have. That's simple mathematics. There's always fixed costs for
equipment, building, staff, etc. The more customers you have means you
can divide these costs over a larger base. What school did you graduate
from?? The Donald Duck Academy??

So, why pay a huge conglomerate for monitoring, when you can have
essentially the same exact services provided, for LESS money in most
cases, by a smaller dealer?

Because the smaller dealer can't (in most cases) front the cost of
equipment and installation like ADT (or the bigger conglomerates) can...
If you purchase your system from ADT, the monitoring fees will be a
lot lower too. I know of several customers that did that and are paying
$18.95/mo. Get your head out of the weeds and have a *real* look around
there "Ducky"...

Name branding does LESS for your money, rather than more. If the huge
conglomerate screws up, they have deeper pockets to pay he lawyers to
get them out of a jam. The smaller guys HAVE to do a better job in the
beginning, during install, in order to KNOW that everything is OK, and
no one has to worry.

Are you inferring that ADT just "slaps-in" equipment and "goes"??
"Ducky", you've gotta fly to a new pond. The one you're floating in is
so full of shit it's a wonder you can breathe normally...

The bottom line is the small print, and in it, you will find so many
exclusions that absolutely NO SECURITY COMPANY out there will be found
liable if you get broken into while being monitored. Otherwise, you
would find hundreds, if not thousands of lawsuits yearly.

Hmmmm... In your previous "quack" you said that the huge conglomerates
have "deeper pockets to pay he lawyers to get them out of a jam". Now
you're saying that the "fine print" excludes that possibility. Last I
heard there *were* hundreds (if not thousands) of lawsuits against
alarmco's filed every year. It's the reason responsible alarm dealers
maintain an insurance policy that includes "failure to perform".

THAT is why I say security systems are a rip off, at least monitored
ones. Hell, put a few signs in your yard, and ten stickers or so on
your windows. No one in their right mind (not that crooks are anyways)
would try to break in. They don't know (other than the signs) what you
have or don't have.

The burg part of a security system is only a component of a total
security package. There's smoke/fire and gas detection as well.
Stickers are going to do you a whole world of good when it comes to a
fire... Sho-nuff!! Yep... My house is entirely protected by stickers.
They're the foil kind that'll survive any fire. I'm sure that if I
put enough of 'em on my house, I could even upgrade its fire rating!

Signs and Stickers are your first line of defense.

Are you sure you haven't immigrated from Europe?? Ever sold any vacuums
or wireless headphones in Belgium by chance??

Or....sign up for a year or two, get the signs and stickers, get new
ones as your contract nears the end, and then cancel.

How about scanning some in and printing 'em on your colour bubble-jet??

Stanley Barthfarkle · Nov 25, 2005

It is probably LESS expensive for a huge company like ADT, or Bell
South Security from Protection One, or BRINKS (that has only ONE
monitoring center, and whose own Brinks Armored Guard Division has been
said to be monitored by ADT) to monitor customers, than small business
owners, many of whom are posting here.

I stated that earlier. The large company with beaucoup accounts have about
$1 to $3 in overhead per account.

As far as the rest of your post, you're either related to Bill Clinton and
can't stick to any particular position, or you're a schizophrenic.

Frank Olson · Nov 25, 2005

Stanley said:
I stated that earlier. The large company with beaucoup accounts have about
$1 to $3 in overhead per account.

As far as the rest of your post, you're either related to Bill Clinton and
can't stick to any particular position, or you're a schizophrenic.

Didn't "Sonic" ask if he was a moron?? Is there any doubt?? ;-)

Stanley Barthfarkle · Nov 25, 2005

If you're uncomfortable discusing it, pardon me for asking but the
scenario
intrigues.
How did you negotiate your salary with company and how did you arrive at a
consulting fee,
wouldn't they just send you to your own accounts to fix them?

I was in their sales dept., but yes, I went on a few service calls to
explain custom items like an access controlled door hookup. If I can toot my
own horn, all of the accounts I installed were PC5010 panels, and I did
things uniformly and neatly, so they were simple to service by our techs. I
still service a couple of family member's systems who are monitored there.
All my installs are rock solid.

The "consulting" fee was simply a bonus, negotiated by me as a condition of
selling my accts to them, to be available to answer specific questions about
my accounts over the phone. I got a flat fee up front, and only got a couple
of calls while I was there.

I've since returned to ADT as a Core Com'l rep for 3.5 yrs, and for the past
few months I've been selling business phone systems about 10-20 hrs per
week, and managing a portfolio of rental properties that we own. No more
thunderstorm phone calls for this boy...

Mark Leuck · Nov 25, 2005

Frank Olson said:
You obviously haven't visited their website. I wouldn't call being
founded in 1992 either "new" or "supposedly up and coming". They're
employing a slick new webmaster though... If they used a "bent" instead
of a motorcycle in their "Shockwave" opening page, you'd see Mark L.
posting from somewhere in NY in no time.

It depends on the bent

Bob La Londe · Nov 25, 2005

R.H.Campbell said:
Damn ! You make so much sense in this post, it's actually scary. And here
I thought the newsgroup was going to hell in a handbasket !! I thought I
was the only one on the ng that thought that way about the "free systems"
and especially about long term contracts when they aren't needed to pay
off artificially low up front system prices.

There are times... I have one customer who is paying 113.87 per month on a
five year annually auto renewing after initial term contract, and he is
thrilled with it. He also has two other systems with me, and is asking me
to lay one out for a fourth site for him soon, and yes he has had alarms
installed in other markets by other companies so he's not an unsophisticated
customer.

There are some other circumstances of course, so blanket statements don't
make sense from either end of the spectrum.

R.H.Campbell · Nov 25, 2005

Quite true Bob ! Blanket statements ARE generalizations, and generalizations
are just that - general statements that don't tell the whole story story all
the time. But I see so many instances where the misuse of long term
contracts causes unnecessary grief and expense to clients that IMO they
totally overshadow the few legitimate uses. I'm glad that you can turn this
industry trend to your customer's advantage, but one (or even a few)
examples does not mitigate the harm done in the other cases. Nothing in life
is totally good or totally bad ! But when all is put on the "scales of
justice" (so to speak), in judging this industry practice, it comes out
(almost) totally loaded against the end user.

I think what bothers me most about this personally, is the fact that the end
user (generally) gets nothing in return for giving up his right to choose
for a number of years. The biggest mystery to me is why the public lets us
get away with it, with rarely a peep about it until something goes wrong.
And THAT is why it will continue unabated ! I sometimes think if ADT and
other nationals didn't have long term contracts to hide behind, their
companies would largely fall apart !!!!!

We're not the only industry that does it either. I just had to send a
registered letter to Ontario Energy telling them I didn't want to opt into
their contractual rate plan for the pricing of natural gas. I had to take
action to prevent being locked into a year long contract if I did nothing
within 30 days - this after I refused their high pressure tactics to lock
into a five year contract ! This is far worse than what happens in our
industry. There the consumer has no choice, and will be bound into a
contract unless he takes positive action. At least in our industry, the
consumer has a full choice about things generally speaking....

I'm going to see what the BBB has to say about this "negative option
marketing" of natural gas !

RHC

Bob La Londe said:
There are times... I have one customer who is paying 113.87 per month on
a five year annually auto renewing after initial term contract, and he is
thrilled with it. He also has two other systems with me, and is asking me
to lay one out for a fourth site for him soon, and yes he has had alarms
installed in other markets by other companies so he's not an
unsophisticated customer.

There are some other circumstances of course, so blanket statements don't
make sense from either end of the spectrum.

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html

Crash Gordon · Nov 25, 2005

mikey · Nov 25, 2005

So, are you saying our businesses are worth NOTHING more than the multiple
you could get on your accounts?

Nomen Nescio · Nov 26, 2005

mikey said:

So, are you saying our businesses are worth NOTHING more than the multiple
you could get on your accounts?

A nicer way to put it might be: the multiple already takes into
consideration the intangibles of your business. Most buyers want accounts
that will pay money every month or every quarter. They're less interested
in how many new outright sales you are going to make during the next year.

The valuation system might well be different for a company that specializes
in large integrated systems for office buildings and similar locations,
where the jobs run well into six figures, but the recurring revenue might
be relatively small.

Crash Gordon · Nov 26, 2005

Yep.

I'd say it's pretty rare that you'd get anything over the multiple unless
you happen to find someone that wants to buy the name, your building, your
stock, all your trucks etc...

All they want is your RMR usually. Then they will try to shake out the slow
pays by raising the monthly a buck or two...then there'd your hold back etc.
etc. Lots of ways to get screwed...and if you get royally screwed by being
dumb enough to sign a non-compete...oye.

| So, are you saying our businesses are worth NOTHING more than the multiple
| you could get on your accounts?
|
| | > You wont get anything for the name or goodwill...infact the buyer will
| > usually ruin the name...best to cut & run if you're gonna sell out.
| >
| >
| > | > | Well, maybe I don't get the math:
| > | 30 x 15 = 450 per account, a thousand accounts would get you 45,000-
| > | ooops 450, 000-
| > | oh, that's a whole new ballgame and that's just selling the accounts,
| not
| > | the business.
| > | Why aren't you driving a V-Rod? Well, I don't mean right now hahaha
| > |
| > | Anybody, check my math
| > | So a business generating 15K a month RMR is worth at least half a
| million.
| > | The business would sell for more than that? name, goodwill, ?
| > | Any sort of rule of them? Double it?
| > |
| > | | > | > Mikey, stop and think before you talk. That IS a standing offer I
have
| > and
| > | > if you and I get together in person, I would be more than happy to
| > explain
| > | > it, and the logic from the buyers perspective. But believe it !
| However,
| > | I'm
| > | > not going to get into a long winded pissing contest regarding my
| > business
| > | on
| > | > the ng over it......
| > | >
| > | > And we're not talking $40K. Do the math....
| > | >
| > | > RHC
| > | >
| > | > | > | > > 30 times monthly for month-month contracts? Really? How is the
buyer
| > | going
| > | > > to handle that free service and rate guarantee? I dunno, Bob.
That's
| a
| > | bit
| > | > > of a stretch. Besides, you would wipe out your subscriber base for
| > what?
| > | > > 40K
| > | > > in your pocket and your revenue stops. Jeeeze, starting all over
for
| > | 40K?
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
| > | > http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

mikey · Nov 26, 2005

Nomen Nescio said:
mikey said:

A nicer way to put it might be: the multiple already takes into
consideration the intangibles of your business. Most buyers want accounts
that will pay money every month or every quarter. They're less interested
in how many new outright sales you are going to make during the next year.

Yes, of course, but an existing alarm company is just buying accounts.
What if it was a turnkey operation you could hand over much like a
franchise.
Marketing materials, Client databases, Manuals, Office and service
Procedures,
Trademarks, Domain names, supplies blah blah blah
That shit has got to be worth something, no?

snipped

mikey · Nov 26, 2005

Crash Gordon said:
Yep.

I'd say it's pretty rare that you'd get anything over the multiple unless
you happen to find someone that wants to buy the name, your building, your
stock, all your trucks etc...

that answers my question to nomen

All they want is your RMR usually. Then they will try to shake out the slow
pays by raising the monthly a buck or two...then there'd your hold back etc.
etc. Lots of ways to get screwed...and if you get royally screwed by being
dumb enough to sign a non-compete...oye.

Good tips there, thank you. If you can think of any more

Non-compete wouldn't bother me if I was doing something else (gigolo)
Why the hell would one sign a non-compete if you were just selling accounts
!?!

Sonicduck · Nov 26, 2005

he burg part of a security system is only a component of a total
security package. There's smoke/fire and gas detection as well.
Stickers are going to do you a whole world of good when it comes to a
fire... Sho-nuff!! Yep... My house is entirely protected by
stickers.
They're the foil kind that'll survive any fire. I'm sure that if I
put enough of 'em on my house, I could even upgrade its fire rating!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frank, Frank, frank, frank....

I have had many customers tell me that they do NOT want fire
protection. They said by the time the fire department would arrive,
the house would be so far gone that there would not be very much they
would want to salvage. The smelly soot and smoke would contaminate
everything. They said if the fire started, they would rather it burn
the daggone house to the ground than to have to bicker with the
insurance company for partial damages. Of course the people I dealt
with the most were upper class, not the bottom of the barrel folks who
probably don't have homeowners. Get with the year 2005, almost to be
2006. Attitudes and people have changed. This industry is steeped in
so much old school mindset that it s sufficating itself. Grow up dude.

ADT selling monitoring for $18.99 ??? Not from corporate. Maybe a
dealer that is hardup for a customer. I never sold one for $18.95 or
$18.99 even. Nope.

I used to live in Syberiacuse. I know their tactics well.

R.H.Campbell · Nov 26, 2005

Mike, there have been a couple of instances locally of guys selling out and
then immediately going back under a new name and trying to steal back the
accounts. It's more common than you might think. If the buyer can prove it's
happening, at least it gives him some legal comeback to try to stop the
theft.

RHC

Non-compete wouldn't bother me if I was doing something else (gigolo)
Why the hell would one sign a non-compete if you were just selling
accounts
!?!

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html

Moore's Lobby Podcast

Menu

Categories

Platforms

Content

Connect With Us

Network

Devcon Buys Out Coastal Security, Adelphia, & Guardian

Devcon Buys Out Coastal Security, Adelphia, & Guardian

R.H.Campbell

Sonicduck

alarman

mikey

mikey

Frank Olson

Stanley Barthfarkle

Frank Olson

Stanley Barthfarkle

Mark Leuck

Bob La Londe

R.H.Campbell

Crash Gordon

mikey

Nomen Nescio

Crash Gordon

mikey

mikey

Sonicduck

R.H.Campbell

Similar threads