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Bypass Telco's NID box?

C

Crash Gordon®

usually just under the service panel just to the right of the meter....or any freekin place it will fit somewhere in that area +/- 5 feet in any direction - Then COX cable comes and TOTALLY messes up all the wiring and then we have 3 boxes hanging on the outside wall with wires dangling between them... Am I crazy or was telco's work MUCH NEATER when they were a monopoly (not that they aren't a double secret monoply now :)
 
C

Crash Gordon®

Hey...just for grins I'm gonna call Qwest to day and ask them to officially relocate my sni. Dollars to donuts the service person in India will have no freekin clue what I'm talking about.
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Bob Worthy said:
Just like everytime there is a phone problem at a home, the first thing
the
person asks, at Ma Bell, is "do you have an alarm system?" Answer: "Yes"
Ma
Bell response is "Then the problem is your alarm system"
BHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! True experience: I own two unrelated
businesses sharing the same facility. The main number for the other
business
went dead. I already checked and there was no dial tone at the demark. I
told the manager to open a trouble ticket. Ma Bell asked their favorite
question and gave their favorite answer. I told the manager to call back
and
tell them the alarm company disconnected the alarm and still had trouble.
Favorite question #2. "Do you have a telephone system? "Yes" Well, that is
the problem. I told the manager to call back and tell them "Now that we
have
a bill from our alarm company and a bill from our telephone system
company"
who is going to get us dial tone at the demark and who is going to pay
these
bills?" Of course there were no bills and they did come out after three
calls and fix the line. Bottom line is that Bell is living is the past
thinking alarm systems are the "cause all" problem with Bells
inadequencies.
There is no thought given to every $9.95 piece of grap telephone,
answering
machine, modem, fax, etc., people buy from god knows where and plug into
their telephone lines. Bell employees, including technicians, may know
their
job, but they sure don't know ours. I've tried using bell techs in the
past
and they just don't get it if they can't use a staple gun!

Bob4Secur
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Gawd....I can relate to that ! I have two enemies in this business; first is
Bell Canada, and the second are drywallers !

I don't know how many times I've been called out on "late to test" only to
find that the Bell tech has hooked up dial tone to both sides of the
exclusion jack, or worse, couldn't figure out what it was, so cut it out of
the loop totally. If I could find a way to effectively bill Bell for every
call caused by their ineptitude with alarms, I could get rich just on these
charges. I've taken to telling clients not to let the tech leave until they
have tested the alarm system for communications. Doesn't always work, but it
makes the tech be a bit more careful (sometimes)

These people are driving me crazy.....

RHC
 
J

Jim

Jen...tel said:
Geez you alarm guys have no idea what you're talking about. All it
takes is one alarm "technician" to say something and the rest of you go
babbling as if it's truth.
From the sounds of your post it would seem that you're more involved
with the regulations than with the actual conditions in the field.
Between the power companys, the communications industry and the
government, there are so many regulations and codes that hardly anyone
knows what rules to follow. When a problem arises, the first attempt is
made to put off the call, by trying to convince the homeowner that the
problem is in the house and that it's probably the alarm system, if all
the handsets and answering machines hooked to the line have been
eleiminated. Little does anyone at the telephone company know, that the
alarm systems connection to the telephone circuit is simply a double
pole, double throw relay ( no electronics at all). Now all of this
takes place over the telephone before a service call is ever set up by
the telephone company. The telephone compmany has little concern about
the fact that the homeowner is likely going to have to pay for a
service call to the alarm company to come out, (even though he's 99%
sure that there's no way a set of relay contacts can be causing a
problem with the telephone lines and the client has already pulled the
plug on the RJ31X) to tell the customer that the problem still exists
on the telephone line.

If alarm companies don't know what the rules are concerning telephone
communications ........ then that goes for the telephone field techs
too. Around here, we call them Seven Day Wonders. The telco hires
people who have once seen a wire somewhere. Sends them to school for
seven days to learn where the green wire goes and where the red wire
goes. Then sends them out in the field to do hook up and repairs. After
they've hooked up the red and green wire and don't get a dial tone on
their butt set, they tell the home owner it's something "inside". This
is primarily so that the "technician" can leave the scene so that when
the call back occurs, "he" will not be the one to respond, as "someone
else" will get the ticket. Now that the homeowner hasn't had phone
service for two or three days, has had to pay the alarm company for a
service call, the next "technician" to arrive, still not being able to
discern why the thingy doesn't work, even though the green and red
wires are where they're supposed to be, will give up and refer the call
to a "Supervisor", who shows up in a day or two. This is a person with
maybe six months experience and who not only has a butt set, but has
earned the privilege of possesing a meter too. If he can't convince the
homeowner that the problem is still inside because he's afraid the vein
on the guys forehead will burst should he persist, the "Supervisor"
will proclaim the job requires a "lineman" to "check out the lines".
Usually, the lineman shows up the next day in a big truck. This guy has
been climbing telephone poles for 20 years. He listens on the line and
says, I'll be back in about 20 minutes and he is, stating that some
idiot didn't close the enclosure and rain water got in and we've been
having problems in the area for the last couple of weeks. You offer him
a cup of coffee and a $10.00 tip, which he graciously declines and
says, "it's all in a days work."

So, you can proclaim where and what is "supposed" to be, but in fact,
it isn't anything like what you say. The demarks are put anywhere by
anyone, at anytime. Some are 40, 50, 60 years old and located inside
the house. some homes don't even have any block at all. Some have two
three or four blocks, demarks, NIC's all interconnected or with dead
lines from past hookups .......and some have strange looking devices
that no one has ever seen before. Some are in attics, closets, garages
and crawl spaces. Some have even been buried in the wall when new
additions have been added to the building.

So you can cite all the regulations that you want, but you should get
out in the real world and see what's actually there. And you ought to
try calling for service sometime too. Example: I haven't met a
telephone field service tech in (10? 15?)years, who knew what an RJ31X
jack was, or if they did hear of it .......knew what it did or what it
was for.
 
M

mikey

I had 30 accounts fail to test one evening, Bob. I freaked. I thought maybe
the station's receiver was fucked up or something. It was Bell, just before
the techs walked curiously enough. We gotta start that station, Bob... we'll
incorporate an RF network and clean up I tells ya.
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Yeah Mike, I had about 100 call in "late to tests" that weekend. It seems
the circuits between Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto went down within the Bell
network, and this (supposedly) caused the problem.

Don't know how local systems would ever be affected by toll lines in that
manner, but ...hey.....I only worked for Bell for 27 years...what the hell
do I know !!!

It does seem that Bell technicians are on strike, but I've only ever heard
that from clients who've had to postpone their installations because of a
lack of a phone line in their new homes....

RHC
 
M

mikey

my sister's dialtone is gone... took me about half an hour to report it and
convince the knucklehead it wasn't the inside wiring. THREE TIMES I told her
I disconnected at the demarc and she's still asking me about telephones and
warning me there's a charge if it's inside, good lord woman!
it'll be 10 days, she finally sez
pretty bad
 
P

petem

They are not in strike

in January this year about 30 % of all there oldest technical employee took
there retirement

it was a proposal from the main office to try lowering there pay roll

But now the rookies that run the place don't know shit what there doing...
 
A

alarman

Jen...tel said:
Geez you alarm guys have no idea what you're talking about. All it
takes is one alarm "technician" to say something and the rest of you
go babbling as if it's truth.
The location of the entry point is controlled by the dominant carrier
of the wireline. They say where it must be and that's all that's
required by federal regulation. This so called tariff you speak of is
a simple federal regulation controlling premise demarcation and MPOE.
The wireline carrier states where the demarcation entry point is
located. This is normally the location where the block was first
installed at a site. All changes from that will follow federal
regulation for a MPOE. Move the "box' all you like but we are not
responsible for anything past the recorded PAP for the demarcation or
MPOE. One other thing, the box housing the jump & protector is the
property of the installing phone company. Homeowners have no rights
to move or alter it. Its location is based on a permanent recorded
federal utility right-of-way.
All you alarm guys who moved it without getting Ma's permission have
screwed the homeowner. All it takes is a call. Qwest will relocate a
demarc from for security purposes if a customer ask. If we move it, a
MPOE is established and that means we take on the responsibility. You
homeowners need to stop trusting what alarm technicians say about
telephone issues cause those guys know jack about what they are
saying.


Jenn

I can say the same about you phone "techs". You know nothing about alarms,
yet will screw the homeowner by cutting the alarm loose because you don't
understand line siezure. Then you tell the homeowner their alarm system has
a "short" in it and simply drive away.
js
 
C

Crash Gordon®

YEP!

In the 20+ years of doing alarm stuff, I've met maybe 10 telco doods that knew what line seizure was and how to diagnose the house system WITHOUT choppping us out, and thus causing the client to incur another service call from the alarm co.
 
P

petem

I have yet to see one that could really understand line seizure...


"Crash Gordon®" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de [email protected]...
YEP!

In the 20+ years of doing alarm stuff, I've met maybe 10 telco doods that
knew what line seizure was and how to diagnose the house system WITHOUT
choppping us out, and thus causing the client to incur another service call
from the alarm co.
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Yeah, including the ones that worked for Bell Guardium when it existed....no
wonder they went tits up. And now the telco is thinking about getting back
into the security business....they never learn.....

RHC
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Yeah, including the ones that worked for Bell Guardium when it existed....no
wonder they went tits up. And now the telco is thinking about getting back
into the security business....they never learn.....

RHC
 
C

Crash Gordon®

Think that's weird...we had Utility companies in alarm business down here for a while. (APS...boy that was weird)
 
J

Jackcsg

What are talking about....I've seen plenty of tel tech's have seizure's when
you try to explain it to them....
 
C

Crash Gordon®

I've been moving them for a zillion years, the telco techs don't give a shit...so who's gonna report you ?..

screw Ma-bell and her baby's too.
 
J

Jen...tel

Crash G. You are so right when you say we don't care if you move it.
We don't care cause we still get paid so it makes no difference to us
where the NID is located. To be honest, I prefer not finding it, No NID
to work from, no need to work!!!! I just go to the next job, tag out
to engineering that the NID is not accessible. I leave it to the
office to work out the charges the customer will pay for the next trip.
You may have your horror stories about NetTechs but let me tell you,
that alarm techs are by far the worst of anyone to mess with phone
lines. We wouldn't have to cut so many alarm off the system had you
install it right and didn't screw the whole thing up. Even PTT's (God
bless them all we really didn't treat them right) could run circles
around any of your wiring. All you who make it sound like alarm guys
know phones are yanking your own toothpick. Look guys, when was the
last time you heard of a phone company tech looking for a job with an
alarm company? But we get stopped by you guys all the time wanting to
know what's need to apply for an entry level job with us.
Oh another thing Crash, if after 20 years with us, you would be able to
take a pension, keep your paid medical, phone concession and all the
perks that come with this job, instead of still pulling wires to pay
for the chew.

Jen
 
B

Bob Worthy

Jen...tel said:
Crash G. You are so right when you say we don't care if you move it.
We don't care cause we still get paid so it makes no difference to us
where the NID is located. To be honest, I prefer not finding it, No NID
to work from, no need to work!!!!

This is why I don't hire telco personnel. Great work ethic there Jen. I'll
bet your employer is proud to have you on staff.

I just go to the next job, tag out
to engineering that the NID is not accessible.

Falsifying records are we? You never looked for it, right? That is a
dismissable act in my company. Hope you don't get caught when a supervisor
quality checks your tickets.
I leave it to the
office to work out the charges the customer will pay for the next trip.

Typical telco act.
You may have your horror stories about NetTechs but let me tell you,
that alarm techs are by far the worst of anyone to mess with phone
lines. We wouldn't have to cut so many alarm off the system had you
install it right and didn't screw the whole thing up.

Bhaaaaahaaaahaaaaahaaaahhaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even PTT's (God
bless them all we really didn't treat them right) could run circles
around any of your wiring. All you who make it sound like alarm guys
know phones are yanking your own toothpick. Look guys, when was the
last time you heard of a phone company tech looking for a job with an
alarm company?

Very few because they know they would have to work for a living!

But we get stopped by you guys all the time wanting to
know what's need to apply for an entry level job with us.

Yeh, I am sure the lazy ones know a meal ticket when they see one!
Oh another thing Crash, if after 20 years with us, you would be able to
take a pension, keep your paid medical, phone concession and all the
perks that come with this job, instead of still pulling wires to pay
for the chew.

Except it is a family owned business since 1985. If you knew anything about
the alarm business, you just might realize it may be worth a little more
than you and your girl friend could make in a life time.

Yep Jen-tel, you do piss standing up. I thought so from your previous post
and after reading this you sound as lazy as all the other tel techs we see
sleeping in their trucks behind the buildings just passing the time so they
can retire with 40K savings in the bank and all those benefits that will go
away as the big corporation starts cutting overhead. Good luck in the future
supporting you and your girl friend with dwindling benefits and a pension
that doesn't keep up with inflation. Nice plan!
 
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