Bypass Telco's NID box?

[Bobby_M]

Instead of buying a cellular backup system, I'm considering protecting
my phone line from easy cuts. The line comes to my house approx 15' off
the ground, runs down the house to the telco installed NID. It then
goes back up the house and into the attic towards my central wiring
terminal in the basement (where I also installed my alarm panel.
Obviously the loop down to the NID is extremely susceptable to cutting
since it goes to eye level. Even running this loop through conduit
would be a waste since a screwdriver would allow access into the NID
anyway. I'm considering running the Telco line directly into the attic
and leaving the loop to the NID as a decoy. Does anyone know if there
are any legal penalties for doing so since the circuit is technically
not mine until it exits the NID?

Bobby

 

[Bob La Londe]

You have to have the NID for a couple reasons. 1st it is the legal
seperation point from your line to their line.

Second, it provides grounding protection to your home via carbon (old style)
or inert gas tubes (new style) that will short the phone lines to ground in
the event of an extreme voltage spike such as a lightning strike (more than
a 1000 yards away).

You might consider moving the NID to the eve of the house and running an
appropriate ground (10 ga) to a solid ground rod from there. Technically
this is also a no no, and if you ask the telco for permission they will say
no, but... many people feel its easier to ask forgiveness then to beg
permission.

 

[Norm Mugford]

Is is considered a "Tariff Violation" if you move the
network interface device. The phone company
according to the FCC tariff can refuse telephone service
until the tariff violation is rectified.
You can request to have the "NID" (or as commonly referred
to as an "O&I") moved into your basement, at a premium
fee, I might add. You also must be available for all service
calls so that the phone company has access to the interface
device.

Norm Mugford

 

[Bob Worthy]

Federal Tariff Violation. Don't ask me to quote the number, someone here
might know. There may not even be one. I could be one of their scare
tactics, I don't know. I just know that over the years, if an installer gets
on the wrong side of the demark and Bell finds it, they rip off the wire and
give notice to the owner of a Federal Tariff Violation. They are very
protective of their equipment. We have had customers request that the demark
be moved inside the garage through Bells special service department. They do
it for around $75 bucks unless they have to dig. Then it gets crazy because
sub contractors get involved. They also make a big issue about access to the
demark if they ever have to work on it. Forget about the attic, they aren't
going there. They all have the typical Bell attitude and the techs like to
make you think they have a license to kill.

Bob4Secur

 

[Crash Gordon®]

I move them into the garage a lot (if it's on the garage side). I've even had Qwest move them for us. They don't seem to care much about where it's located anymore...not like the did years ago anyway.

 

[Robert L. Bass]

Is is considered a "Tariff Violation" if

you move the network interface device...

True, but most telcos never do anything about it as long as the NID is
properly grounded and you don't do anything strange like splicing onto the
drop.

The phone company according to the
FCC tariff can refuse telephone service
until the tariff violation is rectified.

They can but I've moved countless NIDs over the years and they have never
done anything at all about it. That was SNET in Connecticut. Other telco's
may be quite different.

You can request to have the "NID" (or as
commonly referred to as an "O&I") moved
into your basement, at a premium fee, I
might add...

90% of the time they will refuse to move it unless the current location is
about to be walled in or demolished. On those occasions where they do move
it they will indeed charge a fat fee for the service.

You also must be available for all service
calls so that the phone company has access
to the interface device.

That's better than leaving it exposed where anyone can get at it.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Robert L. Bass]

They don't seem to care much about

where it's located anymore...not like
they did years ago anyway.

That might just be particular to your particular telco.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

 

[Crash Gordon®]

Yah probably. They used to piss and moan when we'd even put a padlock on the SNI, now since everyone seems to be messing with the boxes they don't care. I encased one in concrete with access only from within the garage and although they laughed they didn't care.

 

[Group Moderator]

Instead of buying a cellular backup system, I'm considering protecting
my phone line from easy cuts. The line comes to my house approx 15' off
the ground, runs down the house to the telco installed NID. It then
goes back up the house and into the attic towards my central wiring
terminal in the basement (where I also installed my alarm panel.
Obviously the loop down to the NID is extremely susceptable to cutting
since it goes to eye level. Even running this loop through conduit
would be a waste since a screwdriver would allow access into the NID
anyway. I'm considering running the Telco line directly into the attic
and leaving the loop to the NID as a decoy. Does anyone know if there
are any legal penalties for doing so since the circuit is technically
not mine until it exits the NID?

Bobby

Why not install this:
http://www.elkproducts.com/products/elk-980.htm

Available HERE: http://alarmsuperstore.com/elk/ca.htm
-Moderator

 

[James]

Those only work if the line is cut. I have seen a phone line quit working
but still have enough voltage on it not to trigger the telco monitor. It
could give you a false sense of security.

James

 

[Group Moderator]

Those only work if the line is cut. I have seen a phone line quit working
but still have enough voltage on it not to trigger the telco monitor. It
could give you a false sense of security.

James

Not with this monitor.You need to read this PDF. especially under the topic
of OPERATION.
http://www.elkproducts.com/pdf/980-instructions.pdf
-Moderator

 

[[email protected]]

I had the same problem. I got the telco to move the NID inside (into my
basement), then run the telco line through the attic. I had a pull
string from the attic to the basement, so the actual time on site was
minimal. I think they charged around $50 for the effort.

rick

 

[Bobby_M]

No need for this thing, my alarm panel monitors the line. What good
does it due when someone cuts the line and forces their way into my
home? The alarm condition will not make it to the central station. I
want to stop the cut from happening period.

 

[Jim]

No need for this thing, my alarm panel monitors the line. What good
does it due when someone cuts the line and forces their way into my
home? The alarm condition will not make it to the central station. I
want to stop the cut from happening period.

Don't ask, just move it. When's the last time the Telco had to come to
your house?

If they have to come after you move it, it'd probably be best if you
made sure you were home on that day. I'd think that as long as you were
there to give them access, the service guy wouldn't really care where
it is. If they give you a hassle, just move it back and then you'll
have to consider alternative backup monitoring sevices.

 

[Crash Gordon®]

It's easier to obtain forgiveness, than permission.

 

[Jen...tel]

Geez you alarm guys have no idea what you're talking about. All it
takes is one alarm "technician" to say something and the rest of you go
babbling as if it's truth.
The location of the entry point is controlled by the dominant carrier
of the wireline. They say where it must be and that's all that's
required by federal regulation. This so called tariff you speak of is
a simple federal regulation controlling premise demarcation and MPOE.
The wireline carrier states where the demarcation entry point is
located. This is normally the location where the block was first
installed at a site. All changes from that will follow federal
regulation for a MPOE. Move the "box' all you like but we are not
responsible for anything past the recorded PAP for the demarcation or
MPOE. One other thing, the box housing the jump & protector is the
property of the installing phone company. Homeowners have no rights to
move or alter it. Its location is based on a permanent recorded
federal utility right-of-way.
All you alarm guys who moved it without getting Ma's permission have
screwed the homeowner. All it takes is a call. Qwest will relocate a
demarc from for security purposes if a customer ask. If we move it, a
MPOE is established and that means we take on the responsibility. You
homeowners need to stop trusting what alarm technicians say about
telephone issues cause those guys know jack about what they are saying.


Jenn

 

[Bob Worthy]

Just like everytime there is a phone problem at a home, the first thing the
person asks, at Ma Bell, is "do you have an alarm system?" Answer: "Yes" Ma
Bell response is "Then the problem is your alarm system"
BHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! True experience: I own two unrelated
businesses sharing the same facility. The main number for the other business
went dead. I already checked and there was no dial tone at the demark. I
told the manager to open a trouble ticket. Ma Bell asked their favorite
question and gave their favorite answer. I told the manager to call back and
tell them the alarm company disconnected the alarm and still had trouble.
Favorite question #2. "Do you have a telephone system? "Yes" Well, that is
the problem. I told the manager to call back and tell them "Now that we have
a bill from our alarm company and a bill from our telephone system company"
who is going to get us dial tone at the demark and who is going to pay these
bills?" Of course there were no bills and they did come out after three
calls and fix the line. Bottom line is that Bell is living is the past
thinking alarm systems are the "cause all" problem with Bells inadequencies.
There is no thought given to every $9.95 piece of grap telephone, answering
machine, modem, fax, etc., people buy from god knows where and plug into
their telephone lines. Bell employees, including technicians, may know their
job, but they sure don't know ours. I've tried using bell techs in the past
and they just don't get it if they can't use a staple gun!

Bob4Secur

 

[Crash Gordon®]

What you say may very well be true in theory, but from my experience..they don't give a crap where the sni is anymore...on residential.

Permanent recorded right of way??? These are mounted on the side of the house 1 foot off the ground...I seriously doubt there's any documentation on where these things are located at all.

 

[mikey]

I like it when you use "dominant" in your posts, Jen.

 

[Bob Worthy]

Three feet to the left of the air conditioner just below the hose bib on the
NE or was it the SW corner of the house.......... Times that by about
billion locations.

What you say may very well be true in theory, but from my experience..they
don't give a crap where the sni is anymore...on residential.

Permanent recorded right of way??? These are mounted on the side of the
house 1 foot off the ground...I seriously doubt there's any documentation on
where these things are located at all.