Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Bilge Pump Switch

D

Del Cecchi

Vito said:
Neither one. Do you doubt that electrons have mass and therefore
inertia? If they did not, then current would stop at once when the coil
unsaturated. But it does not. The little buggers keep going til they've
charged the capacitor (parasitic in this case but still real). Then
(Bugle sounds retreat) they head the other way re energizing the coil
.... etc. .... creating a damped AC wave.


Yes indeed.
Next you will be telling me that you think the electrons are shooting
through the wire so fast that they just keep going and end up in a pile on
the other end, until they shoot back the other way. Snort, giggle, choke.

Yes the electrons have mass. It has nothing to do with how they behave in
electric circuits.
 
P

Paul

Simply install a strong magnet at the top of your mast. It will pull the
tired electrons up and it will slow the plummet of the downward electrons.

You should also be worried about your computer's hard drive. Data is stored
in binary format, 1 and 0. The zero has slightly greater mass and therefore,
if you haven't balanced your hard drive lately you could be wearing out your
bearings prematurely.

You can download software from the web for this.
 
R

Rick

Dan said:
When you were welding, were you using DC, DC Reverse or AC?

The rod bulges with DCEN (straight polarity)

I get equal bead and bulge when using AC

Rick
 
C

Clams Canino

One atom bumps into another atom.

"Hey! you stole one of my electrons"

"Are you sure"

"I'm positive!"
 
I

Ian Malcolm

Brian said:
Ian, I am not motivated to get you to back-track or grovel or be in
any way uncomfortable. But auto makers found that auto interiors are
rather harsh for electronics. And the mechanism I mentioned is only
one of several. I guess that applies to boats too, just like it did
with motor-bikes (....obligatory sneer at Lucas omitted...)
Anyway - 100 V spikes are just everyday events for a vehicle with
switched motors, relays, and alternators. - would you believe?

If you don't want to choose a 1N4004 rather than a 1N4001 or
whatever,that's just fine with me. Are you aware of the price
difference? :)

Brian W


As you point out, the price difference is negligable. If you are buying
in quantity you may even get better price on the 1N4004 as it is commonly
used in small applience SMPSUs to form the bridge rectifier.

I think the common factor between cars and bikes is the use of the
chasis/body as the -ve return, while a competently installed boat 12V
system NEVER uses the hull as the return. This means that any spikes due
to load dump transients from the alternator, SHOULD be shunted by the low
impedance of the battery banks as the -ve from the engine block (or
ideally the isolated -ve from the altenator) shoult connect to the feed to
the -ve distribution busbar at the battery terminal so you dont see the
impedance of a grotty bit of verdigris encrusted copper braid (most land
vehicle -ve battery cables are in less than ideal condition) as a common
element in the charging and load circuits. Also marine battery banks are
usually higher capacity and better maintained, therefore of lower
impedance. Lastly, how often have you seen someone jump start a boat?

Considering this, I would expect a comparitive study of marine
intallations and land vehicles to show us an interesting difference in the
average amplitude of the transients. However, if the cost is not
excessive, in a safety critical system which would be disabled if the
diode shorted, assuming that the Auto industry data is applicable and
using the higher PIV raed1N4004 to 1N4007 and the 1N5404 to 1N5408 series
diodes is understandable and probably reccomendable.

Finally do you think the use if fast rectifier diodes like the UF4004 and
UF5404 would offer any significant benefit in reducing residual arcing and
spikes?



--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- &
[dot]=.
*Warning* SPAM TRAP set in header, Use email address in sig. if you must.
'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Uffa Fox designed, All varnished hot moulded
wooden racing dinghy circa. 1961
 
J

Jim Richardson

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["Followup-To:" header set to rec.boats.cruising.]
Sorry to say Vito, but that is completely nonsense. The reason current keeps
folwing for a while is magnetism. Current flowing through a wire creates a
magnetic field around the wire. Also, a changing magnetic field induces
current in a wire. What happens when you open the contact is this: the
current stops flowing, the existing static field collapses and is therefore
changing. And the field change induces a current in the wire in the opposite
direction. In a straight wire this effect is hardly noticable but coiled up,
the field around the wire concentrates and the effect gets bigger.

And if you still believe in electron inertia, I advise you to go and read a
book about basic electric laws.

Electrons have mass, ergo, they have inertia. Not much it's true, but
it's there.

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K

Keith

Isn't that what a diode is for? A little check valve? ;)

Speaking of float switches, I installed a brand new Rule superswitch
yesterday. Tested it out, worked fine the FIRST time. After that, when I
released it it wouldn't cut off unless I cycled it up and down and banged on
it a bit. Sheesh.
 
V

Vito

Meindert said:
Sorry to say Vito, but that is completely nonsense. The reason current keeps
folwing for a while is magnetism. Current flowing through a wire creates a
magnetic field around the wire. Also, a changing magnetic field induces
current in a wire. What happens when you open the contact is this: the
current stops flowing, the existing static field collapses and is therefore
changing. And the field change induces a current in the wire in the opposite
direction.

But current continues to flow even after the magnetic field has
collapsed. You can prove that with the right instruments.
And if you still believe in electron inertia, I advise you to go and read a
book about basic electric laws.

I did, at Bell Labs - you know the folks who invented transistors, et
cetera. Electrons have mass everything with mass has inertia. Look it up
in any basic physics book, or better yet memorize
<http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/EINSTEIN/Appendix1.html>. Exam next
Thursday (c:
 
R

Rick Morel


As an FYI for everyone. Those work great!

The link is to the Rule "computerized" bilge pumps. Here is the URL of
the Rule page, another looong one:

http://www.rule-industries.com/prod...alogId=Marine&categoryId=BILGE&companyId=RULE

Quoting Rule,
"Computerized operation on the principle of impeller resistance. Float
switches are not required. The pump will turn on every 2-1/2 minutes
for about one second to sense for water. If water is present, the pump
will sense resistance and continue to run until all water is removed.
Thereafter, it will check for water every 2-1/2 minutes. Power use in
the checking mode is minimal."

'Final Step' has had one of these for over 4 years with no problems.
Well, more than one - A lightning hit took out one, along with most of
the other electronics.

If you don't like the idea of the 2.5 minute cycle, check out:

http://www.rule-industries.com/prod...alogId=Marine&categoryId=BILGE&companyId=RULE

These have a built in "non-contact, no mercury" float switch -
probably a Hall effect sensor???? Anyway, the float switch starts the
pump, then it runs as above, sensing any water.

Personally, I prefer the one that turns on to check. For those worried
about all that running, it works out to less than 1 Amp Hour per day
for the checking part.

Rick




S/V Final Step
http://www.morelr.com/coronado/
 
R

Rick Morel

I have these on my ski boat. They have their advantages and their
disadvantages.


The primary advantage is that there is no float switch to fail. The primary
disadvantage is that they are a constant draw of power.

The amount of power that the "computer" chip takes is probably negligible.
But the pump turns on every couple of minutes and runs for a few seconds.
Over a day, this too is negligible. I had two of these on my ski boat, and
I was fine as long as I didn't leave the boat for more than a week. Two
weeks I might get away with. Leave the boat for a month, and the battery
would be too low to start the engine!

If you have a way of putting an amp-hour or two a day back into the battery
these might be Okay. In my case, the boat was stored on a trailer so I just
disconnected the battery when I knew I wouldn't be back the next weekend.
In case you're wondering, the reason I was reluctant to disconnect the
battery every time I left the boat is that it screws up the stereo presets!

Errrr, how about adding a switch for the bilge pump; or just pull the
pump's fuse?

No offense meant, Rod, but I find it hard to believe even a month of
no-water checks would drain the battery enough to prevent starting.
Unless it was a pretty small capacity battery and/or not in the best
of shape. I seem to recall the specs were 0.45 Amp Hours per day for
"checking". Not sure, but that figure sticks in my mind. I do know is
was less than 1. Even at 1 Amp Hour per day, that would be 31 Amp
Hours for a month.

Rick


S/V Final Step
http://www.morelr.com/coronado/
 
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