Best books/websites/magazines for newbie?

[Scott Loupin]

I hired someone to purchase and install our PV system. It works fine, but I
want to know more about it, (perhaps tweak the sytem) and the manuals that
came with the components only help so much. (The one line in the Xantrex
manual about not having more than two or three strings of batteries brought
me to this newsgroup, thank goodness. I'm going to get larger batteries in
the future.)

There are other RE users in the area, I'm still trying to find them, though.

What would you recommend for intro/medium/advanced books/websites?

I've got Home Power Magazine on order at the moment, any other 'zines to
consider?

Thanks,

Scott

 

[wmbjk]

I hired someone to purchase and install our PV system. It works fine, but I
want to know more about it, (perhaps tweak the sytem) and the manuals that
came with the components only help so much. (The one line in the Xantrex
manual about not having more than two or three strings of batteries brought
me to this newsgroup, thank goodness. I'm going to get larger batteries in
the future.)

There are other RE users in the area, I'm still trying to find them, though.

What would you recommend for intro/medium/advanced books/websites?

I've got Home Power Magazine on order at the moment, any other 'zines to
consider?

Thanks,

Scott

http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/energy/pv_faq.html

When starting out, I found that reviewing what others had done was the
best use of my time. It didn't matter whether or not their systems
were similar to what I had in mind, each gave fresh insight. Here's a
collection of off-grid stories
http://offgrid.homestead.com/OffGridersPage.html If you find that you
have an appetite for more, back issues of Home Power on CD should fit
the bill.

Wayne

 

[Scott Loupin]

Thanks Wayne!

http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/energy/pv_faq.html

When starting out, I found that reviewing what others had done was the
best use of my time. It didn't matter whether or not their systems
were similar to what I had in mind, each gave fresh insight. Here's a
collection of off-grid stories
http://offgrid.homestead.com/OffGridersPage.html If you find that you
have an appetite for more, back issues of Home Power on CD should fit
the bill.

Wayne

 

[George Ghio]

I hired someone to purchase and install our PV system. It works fine, but I
want to know more about it, (perhaps tweak the sytem) and the manuals that
came with the components only help so much. (The one line in the Xantrex
manual about not having more than two or three strings of batteries brought
me to this newsgroup, thank goodness. I'm going to get larger batteries in
the future.)

There are other RE users in the area, I'm still trying to find them, though.

What would you recommend for intro/medium/advanced books/websites?

I've got Home Power Magazine on order at the moment, any other 'zines to
consider?

Thanks,

Scott

Two books for beginniers

Energy From Nature

www.rpc.com.au


Staring at the Sun (Second edition)

ghiog@netconnect. com. au

This is written by myself after many years as a user and designer/
installer of solar power.

Contents on request.

 

[Anthony Matonak]

George Ghio wrote:
....

Staring at the Sun (Second edition)

This is written by myself after many years as a user and designer/
installer of solar power.

Contents on request.

Oh, what the heck. I'll play.

I'm requesting that you post the Contents.

Anthony
"What do you mean I'm tilting at windmills?"

 

[George Ghio]

Well Anthony as you asked. But I must say that your ability is probably
a bit beyond the need for a text on basic solar power.

Although I have expanded the spreadsheets to include Generator/
photovoltaic systems and Micro-hydro sizings.

George

George Ghio wrote:
...

Oh, what the heck. I'll play.

I'm requesting that you post the Contents.

Anthony
"What do you mean I'm tilting at windmills?"

Contents
1 This Book 1
2 What is Solar Power? An Overview 5
2.1 Planning to get the best out of a system 6
2.2 Form and Function 6
2.3 Reality 7
2.4 Orientation 8
2.5 Battery Location 9
2.6 Regulators 10
2.7 Inverters 10
2.8 Inverters and Battery Chargers 12
2.9 Generators 12
3 My Rave 13
4 Solar Power and Your Money 17
4.1 Am I getting what I pay for? 18
4.2 Is there a way to save money? 19
4.3 Does Solar Power really work? 20
4.4 Why does it cost so much? 20
5 Energy and Power 23
6 Batteries 25
6.1 Housing Your Batteries 25
6.2 Battery Box 26
6.3 Ventilation 27
6.4 Multiple Batteries 28
6.5 Battery Stands 28
6.6 Acid Containment 28
6.7 Battery Maintenance 29
7 How much will I have to spend? 31
7.1 Energy Audit 32
7.2 The Energy Audit 32
7.3 Spreadsheet 33
8 Getting Connected 35
8.1 Spade Connectors 36
8.2 Boot Lace Pins 37
8.3 Copper Crimp Lugs 38
8.4 Cable Ties 39
8.5 Stick-on-Mounts 39
9 Second Hand Power 41
10 Yagotta Have an Angle 45
10.1 Solar Radiation 48
10.2 Energy Incident on Tilted Surfaces 49
11 Wiring 51
12 By the Seat of Your Pants 53
12.1 A Day in my Life 53
12.2 Other Stu for the Seriously Laid Back 54
13 Technical 57
13.1 How a Solar Cell works 57
13.2 What goes on in a Battery 59
14 Designing a System 63
14.1 Honesty with Yourself 63
14.2 Equipment 64
15 Solar for more 67
16 Charts, Circuits and Other Stu 69
A Glossary 79 (21 pages hyper-linked to the text)

 

[wmbjk]

George Ghio wrote:
...

Oh, what the heck. I'll play.

I'm requesting that you post the Contents.

Are you checking to see if the second edition adds a chapter on
tracking? Bwahaha. I looked to see if "energy audit", and "the energy
audit" were still on the same page. Whatdaya' know...

To the OP - my advice is that you shouldn't consider sending money for
*any* book until it's recommended by someone *other* than the author.
But if you decide to take a flyer, then when you're done reading,
please send me the CD. I'll review it, and pass it onto others so that
they can write an opinion as well.

To George - you might want to change to self-destructing media like
they use in Mission Impossible.

Wayne

 

[George Ghio]

Are you checking to see if the second edition adds a chapter on
tracking? Bwahaha. I looked to see if "energy audit", and "the energy
audit" were still on the same page. Whatdaya' know...

First if you want to see if thereis a section on trackers... buy the
book.


Second the reason for 'Energy Audit" and "The Energy Audit" are on the
same page is that the book is laid out in chapters and sections. Hence
the numbering.
1

1.1

1.2

But this is a bit beyond the understanding of a person who can't explain
2 days autonomy .

To the OP - my advice is that you shouldn't consider sending money for
*any* book until it's recommended by someone *other* than the author.
But if you decide to take a flyer, then when you're done reading,
please send me the CD. I'll review it, and pass it onto others so that
they can write an opinion as well.

The OP could just make up his own mind as to the wort and post that
opinion himself. Any reccomendation from you is as suspect as your two
days autonomy.

To George - you might want to change to self-destructing media like
they use in Mission Impossible.

I may have mentioned this before "You watch too much tv, it is after all
make believe and you should not take it as real in any way or fashion

Then there is:

GG - No your load is just a number. What is the load made up from? What
is
being run?


Unless you can answer these questiond the answer is;

that the storage is equal to load divided by 24
times the number of hours required to effect repairs.

Correct, but just as much nonsense at the question.

And

W - Oh for cryin' out loud! OK, let's say it's a 4" side grinder, and
it's hanging from the ceiling with its switch taped in the "on"
position, and spinning a 5/8" hole, 80 grit flexible disc on a rubber
backing pad. It's a vacant home, the owners are waiting for their
place in Romania to sell before they can move in, and the purpose of
the grinder is to make burglars think that somebody is hard at work in
the garage. Does that help you?

And the answer;

GG - Common sense says that in your second example the system does not
have
the power to start the grinder. And in the first example my answer is
also valid even if it is not the answer you want. Thats the trouble with
a lack of information.

This is what it is to design and work out whether or not additional
storage is required for a micro hydro system.

Site Specifications

Flow Rate - 10 L/s

Gross Head - 30 metres

Allowable Head Loss - 5%

Generator efficiency - 0.6

Delivery Pipe Length - 250 metres

Pipe Fittings - 5 x 45 Drgree Elbows and 1 x gate valve 3/4 open.


Now all you have to do is calculate whether or not this scenario will
support a 40.3 kWh /day load with a peak power requirement of 3.2 kW and
how much additional storge is required if any.

This is real. A true to life example. This example, unlike your's, will
not suddenly change. There is no phantom element. No bullshit. Just the
information needed to answer the question.

If you get it wrong first go you will have to stay after class and
calculate the pipe size and equivalent pipe length.

We have already seen you reject two correct answers to two scenarios
from your childish dreamings.


Then you ran away. But then cowardice under fire has been your escape
from real numbers all along.

 

[wmbjk]

First if you want to see if thereis a section on trackers... buy the
book.

Given your recent roastings for posting bogus tracking info, some
might reasonably wonder if you'd learned anything yet, and perhaps
added some tracking wisdom to your "book". But it seems that's
impossible based on your limited experience, and that you've likely
given short shrift to other important topics as well. But feel free to
convince us otherwise. Start by explaining how many pages you devoted
to tracking. Let me guess... the number has something to do with
"Wayne's autonomy"...

Second the reason for 'Energy Audit" and "The Energy Audit" are on the
same page is that the book is laid out in chapters and sections. Hence
the numbering.
1

1.1

1.2

My response - Section 1. (pg.1): Huh?
Section 1.1 (pg.1): The huh?

The OP could just make up his own mind as to the wort and post that
opinion himself.

So Judge Nitwit, having offered countless unsolicited opinions, which
are often chock-full of weasel logic, outrageous exaggerations, and
bald-faced lies, now argues that a newbie shouldn't get the benefit of
others' opinions, but should "make up his own mind" instead (*after*
being milked for $25 of course)?! Too funny.

New advice for you - Step 1. - Check a variety of solar-power web
sites that include book recommendations. Step 2. - Notice that yours
isn't listed on any of them. Step 3. - Do something about that, or
not.

I may have mentioned this before "You watch too much tv, it is after all
make believe and you should not take it as real in any way or fashion

Let's see if we have this straight... A guy who hauls 27,000 pounds of
fuel to his home as part of achieving 8% solar power, and who expects
that "accomplishment" (plus his own recommendation) will encourage
readers to buy his book on solar power against all better judgment, is
now lecturing on reality?! You might top that by writing an entire
"Those Who Can't.... Teach" series, with "How To Build a Solar Water
Heating System" as the next volume.

Wayne

 

[George Ghio]

Given your recent roastings for posting bogus tracking info, some
might reasonably wonder if you'd learned anything yet, and perhaps
added some tracking wisdom to your "book". But it seems that's
impossible based on your limited experience, and that you've likely
given short shrift to other important topics as well. But feel free to
convince us otherwise. Start by explaining how many pages you devoted
to tracking. Let me guess... the number has something to do with
"Wayne's autonomy"...

Want to know? Buy the book. The number of pages exceeds you IQ.

My response - Section 1. (pg.1): Huh?
Section 1.1 (pg.1): The huh?

Should have known the numbers would confuse you.

So Judge Nitwit, having offered countless unsolicited opinions, which
are often chock-full of weasel logic, outrageous exaggerations, and
bald-faced lies, now argues that a newbie shouldn't get the benefit of
others' opinions, but should "make up his own mind" instead (*after*
being milked for $25 of course)?! Too funny.

People can buy the book or not, as they see fit. It is a good book for
people who are new to renewable energy.

Your opinion, well lets see.

Several years of being unable to explain the simple matter of two days
autonomy.

No idea of your daily load. Despite your claim of having nine years of
collected data.

Your insistance that the example of Hydro that you put foreward could
have only one answer.

Your revision of the example where the load is now beyond the systems
ability to start the said load.

Yes I can see why your opinion would be of no value what-so-ever.

New advice for you - Step 1. - Check a variety of solar-power web
sites that include book recommendations. Step 2. - Notice that yours
isn't listed on any of them. Step 3. - Do something about that, or
not.

Why? The book sells well enough as it is.

Let's see if we have this straight... A guy who hauls 27,000 pounds of
fuel to his home as part of achieving 8% solar power, and who expects
that "accomplishment" (plus his own recommendation) will encourage
readers to buy his book on solar power against all better judgment, is
now lecturing on reality?! You might top that by writing an entire
"Those Who Can't.... Teach" series, with "How To Build a Solar Water
Heating System" as the next volume.

Solar Power and Lifestyle are a mix of available resources. For heat you
cant beat combustion of fuel for efficiency.

Electricity is a high quality energy source. From beginning to end use
is several steps, each with associated losses.

Gas is a low quality energy source. It is suited to heating, few
conversion steps, higher efficiency in end use.

You would do well to learn the difference.

George

 

[Anthony Matonak]

Perhaps it would be easier (and use much fewer words) to simply
state. "Yes, there is a section on trackers" or "No, there is not
a section on trackers".

I believe your opinion, as stated earlier, was that trackers are
no good. One might infer from this that you do not have a section
on trackers but have rather summed it up into a single line saying
"Don't do it" or "You'll be sorry" or even both.

It seems a minor enough detail that you could enlighten the masses
here in public about how you (generally) deal with the topic in
your book.

Want to know? Buy the book. The number of pages exceeds you IQ.

I'll wait for the review in Homepower Magazine. They seem to have
some level-headed reviewers. If they've already reviewed it, please
tell me the issue number and I'll take a look at the review.

Perhaps, if you wished, you could post one or two pages from the
book. Maybe the introduction. This would be small enough that you
would not have to worry terribly much about copyright infringement
and yet large enough to give readers an idea of how the book is
written.

People can buy the book or not, as they see fit. It is a good book for
people who are new to renewable energy.

Since there is a conflict of interest here, the opinion of the author,
publisher and advertiser are all suspect. Even more so if they are all
the same person.

This is the same kind of conflict of interest that happens with any
kind of selling. You can't take the word of a used car salesman at
face value because they get rewarded for the sale, not their honesty.
This is also why getting second options from doctors and priests are
good things.

Your opinion, well lets see.

Several years of being unable to explain the simple matter of two days
autonomy.

There is a difference between being able to explain a simple matter and
being able to explain a simple matter to your satisfaction.

If, for arguments sake, you have a person who will never be satisfied,
ever, with any amount of explanation, no matter how clear, then it's
completely impossible to explain it enough for that person. Being unable
to do the impossible is a pretty common trait for a human being. It
would be a pretty mixed up person who would be ashamed of being human.

I would be willing to go out on a limb here and suggest that Wayne
might be human.

There is also a difference between being able to do something and being
willing to do something.

I may, for instance, be able to (with some difficulty) walk through
walls. I am certainly not going to demonstrate this ability gratuitously
for the delight of simpletons or at the whim and demand of anyone that
will endlessly shout out "Do it again!". If I were to do so then I would
make myself the slave to anothers will and I'm generally against that
kind of thing.

I'm not against doing things for appropriate compensation though.
Anyone interested, I do parties, reasonable rates.

Solar Power and Lifestyle are a mix of available resources. For heat you
cant beat combustion of fuel for efficiency.

It depends on how you count efficiency. All fuels (except nuclear) can
be traced back to Sunlight at their origin. The conversion of sunlight
to wood is less than 1% efficient, for example, and then using wood for
heating is significantly less than 100% efficient. Ultimately, using
wood for heat means a Sunlight to Usable Heat efficiency of a small
fraction of one percent. Very inefficient.

Fossil fuels are even worse in terms of Sunlight to Usable Energy
efficiency.

Now, if you count the fuel as being free and unencumbered with embodied
energy then efficiency is simply a question of the cost of harvesting,
mining, drilling, pumping or otherwise acquiring the stuff. In this
sense efficiency means less because you are already ignoring a huge
section of the question. Economics (and environmentalism) play a much
greater role.

That is to say, wood, gas, coal, oil, clubbed skinless baby seals, all
can be cheaper to burn and heat your home as long as they are commonly
available and don't cost much.

Not more efficient, just cheaper.

Electricity is a high quality energy source. From beginning to end use
is several steps, each with associated losses.

Gas is a low quality energy source. It is suited to heating, few
conversion steps, higher efficiency in end use.

I don't think you can compare "quality" in this manner. One is not a
higher or lower quality. They are different things and work best at
doing different jobs. Despite what you may believe, there are a lot
of steps to getting Gas to a consumer and the efficiency of any fossil
fuel is questionable. Mainly, do you count the millions of years it
took to make it?

If one wanted the best efficiency then I suppose a solar thermal
collector would be top of the list. Air heaters can run upwards of
70 to 80% efficiency and aren't terribly costly to make. They only
work during the day, of course, but some form of heat storage isn't
unheard of.

Anthony

 

[George Ghio]

Perhaps it would be easier (and use much fewer words) to simply
state. "Yes, there is a section on trackers" or "No, there is not
a section on trackers".

Of course there is.

I believe your opinion, as stated earlier, was that trackers are
no good. One might infer from this that you do not have a section
on trackers but have rather summed it up into a single line saying
"Don't do it" or "You'll be sorry" or even both.

My opinion is that there are very few that actually work. This is not
because tracking is not a good idea but that there are a lot of
installers who will sell you anything and then not answer your calls
after they have your money.

I like the Zomeworks tracker. The concept is in line with renewables.

It seems a minor enough detail that you could enlighten the masses
here in public about how you (generally) deal with the topic in
your book.

Trackers are there. Seek out people who have the model you are
considering and ask about performance and consumer satisfaction.

I'll wait for the review in Homepower Magazine. They seem to have
some level-headed reviewers. If they've already reviewed it, please
tell me the issue number and I'll take a look at the review.

It is slated for review in The Owner Builder magazine. Date not settled
yet.

Perhaps, if you wished, you could post one or two pages from the
book. Maybe the introduction. This would be small enough that you
would not have to worry terribly much about copyright infringement
and yet large enough to give readers an idea of how the book is
written.

Is this a formal request?

Since there is a conflict of interest here, the opinion of the author,
publisher and advertiser are all suspect. Even more so if they are all
the same person.

There is no conflict of interest. Wayne has never read my book. I have
read his site.

His site was a common "Look What I Did" blurb. When I asked what in fact
he had done he went mental. In the end, rather than provide the numbers,
he pulled his site. Nice site, But, there was not the information to
support what he claimed. No documentation about what loads there were or
how much was used. In short nothing but unsubstantiated claims for
performance and load.

I mean really, to claim two days autonomy at a reduced load is pointless
unless the full load is stated and the reduction required is stated.

This is the same kind of conflict of interest that happens with any
kind of selling. You can't take the word of a used car salesman at
face value because they get rewarded for the sale, not their honesty.
This is also why getting second options from doctors and priests are
good things.

Look, I could post what other people have said about my book. Wayne
would just call me a liar.

There is a difference between being able to explain a simple matter and
being able to explain a simple matter to your satisfaction.

If Wayne sends me his system specs I will document his system without
bias for him. I think that the concept, based on where he lives, should
be documented honestly. There is a lot that can be learned from Waynes
system even if it can not be replicated by most people because of
location.

If, for arguments sake, you have a person who will never be satisfied,
ever, with any amount of explanation, no matter how clear, then it's
completely impossible to explain it enough for that person. Being unable
to do the impossible is a pretty common trait for a human being. It
would be a pretty mixed up person who would be ashamed of being human.

Well if Wayne wants to document his system. Providing data on all the
loads, what they draw and for hor how long, balanced against production
and storage and indeed climate then how could I or anyone else not be
satisfied.

I would be willing to go out on a limb here and suggest that Wayne
might be human.

You could be right.

There is also a difference between being able to do something and being
willing to do something.

Well when all this started Wayne asked for me to provide my data. I
provided a list of all my energy use for all purposes and all sources by
the day, week, month and year.

Wayne then provided ZILCH.

I may, for instance, be able to (with some difficulty) walk through
walls. I am certainly not going to demonstrate this ability gratuitously
for the delight of simpletons or at the whim and demand of anyone that
will endlessly shout out "Do it again!". If I were to do so then I would
make myself the slave to anothers will and I'm generally against that
kind of thing.

Don't walk through walls then.

I'm not against doing things for appropriate compensation though.
Anyone interested, I do parties, reasonable rates.

The same reason I sell my book and don't give it away.

It depends on how you count efficiency. All fuels (except nuclear) can
be traced back to Sunlight at their origin. The conversion of sunlight
to wood is less than 1% efficient, for example, and then using wood for
heating is significantly less than 100% efficient. Ultimately, using
wood for heat means a Sunlight to Usable Heat efficiency of a small
fraction of one percent. Very inefficient.

Wrong description of the process.

Pay the postage and I will send you the rundown on energy and efficiency
from beginning to end use. Or if you like I can email you the scaned
info showing how to calcuate the efficiencies.

Fossil fuels are even worse in terms of Sunlight to Usable Energy
efficiency.

Now, if you count the fuel as being free and unencumbered with embodied
energy then efficiency is simply a question of the cost of harvesting,
mining, drilling, pumping or otherwise acquiring the stuff. In this
sense efficiency means less because you are already ignoring a huge
section of the question. Economics (and environmentalism) play a much
greater role.

That is to say, wood, gas, coal, oil, clubbed skinless baby seals, all
can be cheaper to burn and heat your home as long as they are commonly
available and don't cost much.

Not more efficient, just cheaper.


I don't think you can compare "quality" in this manner. One is not a
higher or lower quality. They are different things and work best at
doing different jobs. Despite what you may believe, there are a lot
of steps to getting Gas to a consumer and the efficiency of any fossil
fuel is questionable. Mainly, do you count the millions of years it
took to make it?

This does not seem to be the case. This is just how you compare such
things.

Of course word defenitions need to be agreed upon but in the end
comparisons can be made.

If one wanted the best efficiency then I suppose a solar thermal
collector would be top of the list. Air heaters can run upwards of
70 to 80% efficiency and aren't terribly costly to make. They only
work during the day, of course, but some form of heat storage isn't
unheard of.

OK

 

[[email protected]]

For heat you cant beat combustion of fuel for efficiency.

Then again, we have inexpensive non-polluting solar heat.

Nick

 

[George Ghio]

Then again, we have inexpensive non-polluting solar heat.

Nick

If I remember right you are busy spreading plastic over any surface that
will take it.

Non polluting plastic. Sounds like an oxy-moron to me.

Then there is your new pump every six months.

Have you worked out how many degrees panels should be angled towards the
ground to get the best result yet. Never did get a response to that one
did we?

Stick to your maths Nick. It's your only claim to fame.

 

[wmbjk]

Want to know? Buy the book.

If the book had a proper section on tracking, then it would be to
*your* benefit for that to be made clear. It's an idiotic notion that
anyone would send you $25 simply because the answers to fair questions
are too embarrassing for you to provide.

Why? The book sells well enough as it is.

Who do you think you're fooling with that? Let's compare....

A search for "george ghio staring at the sun" http://tinyurl.com/4cotg
No web site, bupkis really except for the author's own sales pitches
on Usenet

A search for "joel davidson new solar home" http://tinyurl.com/5zvp6
Yikes! This book offers more, costs less, and in an incredible stroke
of marketing genius, can be read without electricity! It's also
independently recommended, has a number (ISBN 0-937948-09-8) and is
available from several vendors. The author even has a web site if you
can imagine that, which includes <gasp> photos of his own place.

Hey George, it looks like they sell a lot of stuff at that site. Do
you think that if they knew you were the inventor of the 8116.2 kWhr
propane bottle, that they'd list your book? Might be worth a try.

Gas is a low quality energy source. It is suited to heating, few
conversion steps, higher efficiency in end use.

Oh give it up. Many of us have built nice solar water-heating systems
at reasonable cost. But do we read about *you* working on one in order
to save buying and hauling all that propane? Noooo, because you're too
busy with your mealy-mouthed "stories". If only you knew to take
advantage of all the facts available free for the reading... like this
one - the time you've spent bashing others in this newsgroup could
have built a decent water heating system several times over.

Wayne

 

[wmbjk]

My opinion is that there are very few that actually work. This is not
because tracking is not a good idea but that there are a lot of
installers who will sell you anything and then not answer your calls
after they have your money.

How is that different from any other system component, or *anything*
for that matter?

I like the Zomeworks tracker.

You've already claimed that you've "never seen a working tracker". Was
there a Zomeworks tracker you liked, even though it didn't work? Or is
it their ads that you like?

The concept is in line with renewables.

Renewable refrigerants?! LOL Has anybody ever advised you to write
less and think more? I guess not.

Here are some details on a Zomeworks tracker installation, exactly the
type of information that you'll be able to supply *if* you ever get
any experience. http://www.hollowtop.com/cls_html/solar_power.htm Hey
lookee there, the guy has also written a book... but *he's* willing to
show pictures of his own setup! What a concept eh George?

Trackers are there. Seek out people who have the model you are
considering and ask about performance and consumer satisfaction.

So if someone were interested in Wattsun trackers, they could first
send you $25 to see if you have anything to say, and then contact
somebody like, oh, I don't know who... to get some first-hand
information?

It is slated for review in The Owner Builder magazine. Date not settled
yet.

Just like the magic mass! That Owner Builder magazine has everything!
Or should I say, allegedly might have everything on some date "not
settled yet". Good choice not sending it to Home Power. Sure, they may
have the circulation and the reputation, but then they'd be getting
all that Ghio-knowledge for nothing eh George?

Is this a formal request?

There is no conflict of interest.

Do you even read what you write, or is the process more of a "speaking
in tongues" kind of thing?

Look, I could post what other people have said about my book. Wayne
would just call me a liar.

You should take action against those who convinced Wayne that you're a
liar. And you should build one of these to administer the punishment
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tips/getAttraction.php3?tip_AttractionNo==2705

If Wayne sends me his system specs I will document his system without
bias for him.

Would that come with a "nitwit-certified" sticker or something?
I notice you didn't mention a dollar amount. How much would you pay to
finally be associated with an actual solar/wind powered home, instead
of the "propane/generator with solar assist" that you're used to?

Wayne then provided ZILCH.

I thought you said he provided his battery and inverter weights? Make
up you mind for cryin' out loud! Anyway, you don't need any
information from him, since you already posted that he's running a
300% surplus. So just go to the manufacturers' web sites for all his
appliances, and multiply their specs by 3.

Wayne

 

[George Ghio]

If the book had a proper section on tracking, then it would be to
*your* benefit for that to be made clear. It's an idiotic notion that
anyone would send you $25 simply because the answers to fair questions
are too embarrassing for you to provide.



Who do you think you're fooling with that? Let's compare....

A search for "george ghio staring at the sun" http://tinyurl.com/4cotg
No web site, bupkis really except for the author's own sales pitches
on Usenet

A search for "joel davidson new solar home" http://tinyurl.com/5zvp6
Yikes! This book offers more, costs less, and in an incredible stroke
of marketing genius, can be read without electricity! It's also
independently recommended, has a number (ISBN 0-937948-09-8) and is
available from several vendors. The author even has a web site if you
can imagine that, which includes <gasp> photos of his own place.

Hey George, it looks like they sell a lot of stuff at that site. Do
you think that if they knew you were the inventor of the 8116.2 kWhr
propane bottle, that they'd list your book? Might be worth a try.


Oh give it up. Many of us have built nice solar water-heating systems
at reasonable cost. But do we read about *you* working on one in order
to save buying and hauling all that propane? Noooo, because you're too
busy with your mealy-mouthed "stories". If only you knew to take
advantage of all the facts available free for the reading... like this
one - the time you've spent bashing others in this newsgroup could
have built a decent water heating system several times over.

This is where Wayne will refuse to show any numbers to support his
claims.

So I won't bother to ask.

 

[George Ghio]

How is that different from any other system component, or *anything*
for that matter?


You've already claimed that you've "never seen a working tracker". Was
there a Zomeworks tracker you liked, even though it didn't work? Or is
it their ads that you like?


Renewable refrigerants?! LOL Has anybody ever advised you to write
less and think more? I guess not.

Depends on the refrigerant. But then your lost on that subject as well.

Here are some details on a Zomeworks tracker installation, exactly the
type of information that you'll be able to supply *if* you ever get
any experience. http://www.hollowtop.com/cls_html/solar_power.htm Hey
lookee there, the guy has also written a book... but *he's* willing to
show pictures of his own setup! What a concept eh George?

Saw the first reports when it was designed.

So if someone were interested in Wattsun trackers, they could first
send you $25 to see if you have anything to say, and then contact
somebody like, oh, I don't know who... to get some first-hand
information?

Goodness no, if some onewas interested in any tracker the should first
contact the supplier and ask for current users of th item in question.

Just like the magic mass! That Owner Builder magazine has everything!
Or should I say, allegedly might have everything on some date "not
settled yet". Good choice not sending it to Home Power. Sure, they may
have the circulation and the reputation, but then they'd be getting
all that Ghio-knowledge for nothing eh George?

I have a good relationship with OB. They are honest people and produce
an Australian oriented content.

Yes, print the pages <snorf> on tracking.

For you Wayne, you get what you give. Have a guess.

Do you even read what you write, or is the process more of a "speaking
in tongues" kind of thing?


You should take action against those who convinced Wayne that you're a
liar. And you should build one of these to administer the punishment
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tips/getAttraction.php3?tip_AttractionNo==2705
What ever!


Would that come with a "nitwit-certified" sticker or something?
I notice you didn't mention a dollar amount. How much would you pay to
finally be associated with an actual solar/wind powered home, instead
of the "propane/generator with solar assist" that you're used to?

So you said. You don't like my lifestyle, so what. You say I use my gen
to run the house, not true. 80 min/week for laundry and vac. Big deal.

I thought you said he provided his battery and inverter weights? Make
up you mind for cryin' out loud! Anyway, you don't need any
information from him, since you already posted that he's running a
300% surplus. So just go to the manufacturers' web sites for all his
appliances, and multiply their specs by 3.

Back on your moped.

 

[wmbjk]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 19:38:35 +1100, George Ghio

Depends on the refrigerant. But then your lost on that subject as well.
Saw the first reports when it was designed.

You've never seen a working tracker, but you like the one whose design
you were in on? Oh man! So basically you intend to just pile the BS up
even deeper. Well then, be my guest, tell us all exactly what
"renewable" refrigerant Zomeworks uses that you're so fond of. Is this
by any chance the "wayne's autonomy" refrigerant?

Goodness no, if some onewas interested in any tracker the should first
contact the supplier and ask for current users of th item in question.

By all means, and best if one of those current users has a couple of
different models, and multiple samples... say, someone who has 27
tracker-years experience. Know anyone like that George?

I have a good relationship with OB. They are honest people and produce
an Australian oriented content.

It is possible to be honest but terribly misguided, particularly if
they've been misled. Do they realize that you're using their good name
in a pathetic attempt to dig yourself out of a hole of exaggerations,
bogus information, bad advice, and outright lies?

For you Wayne, you get what you give. Have a guess.

Thought you were going to weasel away by posting something irrelevant
didn't you? :-( So sorry.

What ever!

Excellent. When will we be reading progress reports? Perhaps I could
donate some steel-toed boots for the project.

So you said. You don't like my lifestyle, so what

No, *you* said I didn't like your lifestyle.* I* said your lifestyle
was irrelevant.

You say I use my gen
to run the house, not true.

No, I said that the solar component of your "design" was but 8% of the
total, without even counting the wood heat. I also said that you've
hauled 27,000 pounds of fuel, and can't manage to build something as
simple as a solar water-heating system, despite numerous claims of
being some sort of master fabricator. And I said that you're too
ashamed of your own stuff to show photos, yet are quick to criticize
others'.

80 min/week for laundry and vac. Big deal.

That's only part of it. It simply isn't possible for any real
workshop to run on 80 minutes per week of generator time, especially
if it's supposed to be concurrent with speed-laundry and vacuuming.

Regardless, it is a big deal in the context of your criticism of my
place, which uses a fraction of the fuel to operate much more
equipment. It's also a big deal in the context of a guy who claims
that his knowledge and experience entitles him to milk the newbies,
while at the same time blubbering excuses for not making his book
available for review. And it's an especially big deal in the context
of a quack who offers bogus advice based on bogus experience.

Wayne

 

[wmbjk]

This is where Wayne will refuse to show any numbers to support his
claims.

So I won't bother to ask.

You shouldn't be thinking about *asking* anything. Instead you should
concentrate on getting your own home up to the level of the one you've
been bashing. Either that or get to work on a better smokescreen,
because most of us can see right through the one you've been putting
up thus far.

Wayne