Zero Point Energy is not a myth.

[The Flavored Coffee Guy]

Hello,

After all of my years posting on the internet, I have discovered that
this is no longer a safe place to discuss ideas. I have posted many
many ideas, and public access information does not allow for concept
patents to exist. A concept patent is the basic description of a
device. For example patenting a statement like this one: a rotory
motor that uses electromagnets and brushes to maintain the attraction
or repulsion of several or more permenant magnets to keep the rotor in
motion and provide mechanical power to a drive shaft.

Some-one is mining the newsgroups, and patenting anything and every
idea mentioned on the internet. I know that it is an invention
submission company, and a series of patent attorneys that are doing
this. But, they are only literally establishing concept patents. This
means, that if you can find the post in the newsgroup that pre-dates
their application for a patent, you can prove that the information is
public access, and was and void the concept patent. Once, the concept
patent is voided, a device patent can then be applied for, and the
attorney cannot demand royalties. The theory behind a television set
and how it works is public access, and anyone can design and build a
television. Any time the entire concept or theory behind how a device
works becomes public access information before a patent is applied for,
the concept patent is null or void, and only the device patents are
acceptable.

You see newsgroups, and the News. If an inventor tells the world via
the news how his new device works, and it wasn't patented, he cannot
apply for a concept patent. In that case, no-one can. All the
individual has done, is for all practical purposes is fire a starting
gun, and allow for competition.

 

[Jim Thompson]

Hello,

After all of my years posting on the internet, I have discovered that
this is no longer a safe place to discuss ideas. I have posted many
many ideas, and public access information does not allow for concept
patents to exist. A concept patent is the basic description of a
device. For example patenting a statement like this one: a rotory
motor that uses electromagnets and brushes to maintain the attraction
or repulsion of several or more permenant magnets to keep the rotor in
motion and provide mechanical power to a drive shaft.

Some-one is mining the newsgroups, and patenting anything and every
idea mentioned on the internet. I know that it is an invention
submission company, and a series of patent attorneys that are doing
this. But, they are only literally establishing concept patents. This
means, that if you can find the post in the newsgroup that pre-dates
their application for a patent, you can prove that the information is
public access, and was and void the concept patent. Once, the concept
patent is voided, a device patent can then be applied for, and the
attorney cannot demand royalties. The theory behind a television set
and how it works is public access, and anyone can design and build a
television. Any time the entire concept or theory behind how a device
works becomes public access information before a patent is applied for,
the concept patent is null or void, and only the device patents are
acceptable.

You see newsgroups, and the News. If an inventor tells the world via
the news how his new device works, and it wasn't patented, he cannot
apply for a concept patent. In that case, no-one can. All the
individual has done, is for all practical purposes is fire a starting
gun, and allow for competition.

Such amateurs! The key phrase is "reduction to practice" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Macgyver]

Hello,

After all of my years posting on the internet, I have discovered that
this is no longer a safe place to discuss ideas.

When was it ever?

I have posted many many ideas,

Were any of them or other peoples ideas you are refering to practical,
because based on your next statement...

For example patenting a statement like this one: a rotory
motor that uses electromagnets and brushes to maintain the attraction
or repulsion of several or more permenant magnets to keep the rotor in
motion and provide mechanical power to a drive shaft.

Which is nothing more than a smoke and mirrors perputal motion trick
that will not, and has never worked, as a power source (just as a
load), is not worth patenting.

Some-one is mining the newsgroups, and patenting anything and every
idea mentioned on the internet. I know that it is an invention
submission company, and a series of patent attorneys that are doing
this. But, they are only literally establishing concept patents

Is this paranoid thinking based on coincidence?
I have yet to see an idea worth patenting (with a few exceptions).
Virtually all of them are based on a faulty understanding of the laws
of physics, energy conservation, etc, poor or just plain wrong lab
work, misguided belief that major future advances will make the idea
work (allowing them to break a law or two that is preventing their idea
from working), or my favourite, no idea of manufacturing and
infrastructure costs associated with implementing the idea, as compared
to already existing technologies. A few examples are hydrogen
generation using electrolysis and water and using magnets as an
over-unity power source. These ideas (and others involving spark gaps,
magnetic levitation, Pelter-effect devices, high voltage, or anything
else that looks cool) are easily implemented by back yard enthusiasts
and "inventers", but without the knowledge of how science and the real
world actually work, they don't understand that what they are actually
working with are mere science project demonstrations of concepts,
nothing more.

You can patent ANY rubbish, even if it doesn't and will NEVER work.
When working on my first patent I came across similar designs. One
patented idea was so badly wrong that it is impossible to work (the
battery +ve was connected to a plate, there was no provision provided
for a -ve to allow an electrical circuit to be created). It is obvious
that even a basic prototype was never built. Basic, basic stuff.

Its best if people post the ideas FIRST before applying for a patent so
that a group of knowledgeable people can explain why it wont work, or
offer suggestions on how to make it better. Hell, at least build a
prototype that works, and run the idea and design past a friend who has
some engineering background!

Most will find that any patent they get will loose them money, and in
the end a patent just won't protect your ideas (especially if you
don't have any money to back yourself up).

Don't multiple group post all over the place, your going to make
people angry. Also, are there a lot of inventers at
alt.fan.nicole-kidman?

 

[Charles Schuler]

Big Snip

http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.asp

 

[Dave]

Hello,

ZPF is a myth.

patents ? check out the guy that patented the weed wacker.

He spent all his time and money trying to keep others from using his patent,
and lost.

 

[Igor]

Hello,

After all of my years posting on the internet, I have discovered that
this is no longer a safe place to discuss ideas. I have posted many
many ideas, and public access information does not allow for concept
patents to exist. A concept patent is the basic description of a
device. For example patenting a statement like this one: a rotory
motor that uses electromagnets and brushes to maintain the attraction
or repulsion of several or more permenant magnets to keep the rotor in
motion and provide mechanical power to a drive shaft.

Some-one is mining the newsgroups, and patenting anything and every
idea mentioned on the internet. I know that it is an invention
submission company, and a series of patent attorneys that are doing
this. But, they are only literally establishing concept patents. This
means, that if you can find the post in the newsgroup that pre-dates
their application for a patent, you can prove that the information is
public access, and was and void the concept patent. Once, the concept
patent is voided, a device patent can then be applied for, and the
attorney cannot demand royalties. The theory behind a television set
and how it works is public access, and anyone can design and build a
television. Any time the entire concept or theory behind how a device
works becomes public access information before a patent is applied for,
the concept patent is null or void, and only the device patents are
acceptable.

You see newsgroups, and the News. If an inventor tells the world via
the news how his new device works, and it wasn't patented, he cannot
apply for a concept patent. In that case, no-one can. All the
individual has done, is for all practical purposes is fire a starting
gun, and allow for competition.

The notion of a concept patent is a scam. The US Patent and Trademark
Office issues only utility, device, and plant patents. More info
available here:

http://www.uspto.gov/index.html

 

[The Flavored Coffee Guy]

In Legal Terms, it is considered a Utility Patent.

1) Utility patents may be granted to anyone who invents or discovers
any new and useful process, machine, article of manufacture, or
composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof;


http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#patent

 

[The Flavored Coffee Guy]

The Utility patent can be voided in a court, if the theory was
disclosed. That is why anyone can make capacitors, resistors,
transistors, based upon thier own manufacturing methods, masks,
measurements, and use of any of the known doping elements, compounds,
or their own mixtures of elements to produce a transistor.

2) Design patents may be granted to anyone who invents a new, original,
and ornamental design for an article of manufacture; and

3) Plant patents may be granted to anyone who invents or discovers and
asexually reproduces any distinct and new variety of plant.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:PETesla.png

Now, anyone can patent a solar cell:
http://july.fixedreference.org/en/20040724/wikipedia/Photoelectric_effect

And the same is true about the 3 Chip Medical Camera, which was given
away by it's inventor. There is no need to be concerned. The only
point is that you are eliminating the potential of paying royalties to
a data miner.

 

[The Flavored Coffee Guy]

The only point is that you are eliminating the potential of paying
royalties to a data miner by first searching the newsgroups for your
invention, then searching the patent office, and finally checking the
date of application for the patent. If the application for a patent is
dated after the posting in the newsgroups, and has been archived, then
you can prove to the Judge, that he isn't the inventor, and at that
point producing a complete device or prototype. Then you request it of
the Judge, to void the Utility Patent, due to the simple fact that the
individual has either made public release, or picked up a public
release.

 

[The Flavored Coffee Guy]

You want your Attorney to make a strong point once you have valid proof
that the patent wasn't applied for before a public notice was made that
people's ideas, are not a form of legalized gambling. We can't gamble
or bet on football games, baseball games, without first legalizing it,
and ideas were never listed as any form of legal gambling. So, anyone
that is data mining the internet, or newgroups, or any other
information system cannot just walk up and squat on ideas that people
put time and effort into actually building just because the mention the
method or theory of operation.

If any scientist were truly out to save the environment, any good idea,
would be reason to call in the competition to see if others couldn't
learn what he or she had learned, and gain from that or improve upon it
and literally wind up with the desired result of actually having saved
the environment as a result of the competition, and initially only
placing one drop in the bucket. That one drop would be the
communication and the explaination of the theory of operation publicly.

It's not a perpetual motion machine, but it does when the lights are
on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_radiometer

 

[The Flavored Coffee Guy]

This would work if you built it.

In detail, there are several ideas at work to use the tide generating
electricity with this one.

http://www.elgersmad.homestead.com/

 

[Ancient_Hacker]

This would work if you built it.

In detail, there are several ideas at work to use the tide generating
electricity with this one.

http://www.elgersmad.homestead.com/

There's the small matter of the economics of the situation. It's
impossible to build a float that will lift X tons for less than Y
dollars, where Y is the amount of energy you can extract from the
device in 100 years. Figure it out, there's 550 ft/lbs/sec in a
horsepower, assume a 30-foot tide, you only get about 0.0000037 penny
of electricity per tide per ton.

And no, you can't make it up in volume.

 

[Don Lancaster]

There's the small matter of the economics of the situation. It's
impossible to build a float that will lift X tons for less than Y
dollars, where Y is the amount of energy you can extract from the
device in 100 years. Figure it out, there's 550 ft/lbs/sec in a
horsepower, assume a 30-foot tide, you only get about 0.0000037 penny
of electricity per tide per ton.

And no, you can't make it up in volume.

The usual tidal generating schemes involve a dam and a turbine.
Instead of a float, you use thousands of tons of water instead.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Ancient_Hacker]

A different tack-- let's say somebody gives you a big floating thing,
like let's say the old Queen Mary (82,000 tons)

If it goes up and down with an average tide, Excel says you can make a
bit over $17,000 a year of electricity.

Which means you'd also have to get the generators for free, and still
not be able to pay anybody to watch over it and squirt oil as needed.

 

[The Flavored Coffee Guy]

X dollars to build it, but it's only a bridge, and doesn't generate a
single watt.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/sr104hoodcanalbridgeeast/

If it's so impractical, why it is so practical to build these for no
other reason except to tread on?

Well, we flagged that one a long long time ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gadsden_flag_large.png

 

[The Flavored Coffee Guy]

There is one other saying to keep in mind:

"If you build it, they will come."