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Zero Point Energy is no myth.

  • Thread starter The Flavored Coffee Guy
  • Start date
J

jasen

Wimshurst, is one design, here's another, it is a Bonetti Machine.
Then there is the sectorless Wimshurst.
The metal foil plates of which you speak, do not exist.

Other than that, you have overlook fine detail, the direction of force
is 90 degrees,

and as charge plate approaches the collector,

BULLSHIT. it's not EXACTLY 90 degrees.

Approximations will lead you the wrong way if you're looking for
free energy.
the force
of attraction is equal to the drag of the previous plate moving away.

the charge is less the force is less.
The charged plate is attracted to the opposite pole, when the collector
aquires that energy, there is an equal amount of attraction developed.
That energy isn't lost, or gained.

say what?
It strictly straight to the plate,
and straight away from the plate, the collectors draw on a plate that
approches, by as much as one that is moving away. There is no gain or
loss attributed to anything that is parallel to the axis of rotation.

The movemment of charges isn't parallel to the axis.
A magentic field, if lets say north faced north, would oppose the
direction of rotation, and there would be loss, if there is enough
inertial energy to get past the magnet, it will only push as hard to
move it away, and continue rotation in the same direction. With just
two permanent magnets, there would be a very significant loss at the
point where the interia of rotation dropped below the field strength of
the magnets pushing against each other because, at that point, the
rotation would stop. The force of attraction of north and south poles
works the same way, except that magnets will center themselves over the
other aligned.

what have magnets to so with anything here?
use shorter sentences if you want to be understood. as it is you are
starting to come across as a kook.
The dielectric of the rotating disk, retains the same charge in volts,
and that field always pulls equal on the Sectorless machines, and
parallel to the axis of rotation. It pulls on the opposite charge as
it approches, and pushes on the like charge as it leaves.

The dielectric isn't all that signinficant here,

and learn to post correctly.
 
J

jasen

Ha, ha ha,

Rich,

If Zero Point energy is ever going to be useful, it has to be
collected.

If you look at the Wimshurst Machine in operation, there
are two neutralizing rods, the energy never leaves the system.

the neutralising rods put the charges on the discs through a process called
electrostatic induction.... find a highschool physics text and look it up.
At the
spark gap it balances at zero, on the plates it is balanced at zero.
The charge is really moving in a stepped loop. Still all a part of the
system.

The system obeys Kirchoffs loop law... no surprise there.

Bye.
Jasen
 
D

default

No, I didn't overlook the areodynamics of the situation, I am still
looking for equations to determin these and other factors, and I have
the same question you do, Would a Wimshurst Generator Work in a Vacuum?
That is a good question.

This machine uses razor blades instead of brushes, and there is no
mechanical contact. All of the power is taken off of the disk by glow
discharge, or corona discharge.
http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/karlb.jpg

Therefore, even the thought of friction concerning brushes can be
eliminated in the Voss Machine, if that method of using sharp edges is
put to use to collect or deposit charges, and that reduces friction to
the bearings.

Thanks for the link. That looks like a lot of spark for that machine.

I'll have to check out Dr. Queiroz other links.
 
R

Rich Grise

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:41:58 -0800, The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:
<some fantastical schtuff>

You need to go see the movie "The Prestige" - it's out right now, and
it explains a lot of Tesla's free energy experiments.

Good Luck!
Rich
 
R

Rich Grise

Ha, ha ha,

Rich,

If Zero Point energy is ever going to be useful, it has to be
collected.

Now you're just being blockheaded.

BY DEFINITION, the Zero point is the point at which there is nothing
left to collect.

I give up.

Good-bye.
Rich


If you look at the Wimshurst Machine in operation, there
 
D

David L. Jones

Ron said:
Ask Carter, O'Neil knows nothing about the technology.
I'd much rather talk to Carter anyway.

Ah yes, Carter, every geeks fantasy!

O'Neil knows it all, he just doesn't show it, after all he IS MacGyver!

Dave :)
 
J

Jamie

No, no, and no, but fruits growing on a tree are pretty close to a
"free lunch".

;-)

Michael
no, standing in a prison or welfare line is a "free lunch"!
 
T

The Flavored Coffee Guy

mike3 said:
That's just a static generator.


ZPE is real. What is debatable is whether or not one can get useful
amounts
of energy out of it.


Huh??? How? A Wimshurst Generator takes energy IN, to generate a
static charge imbalance. It does NOT put energy OUT. Could you
provide a working model (nothing huge, just a small model that can
power 1 lightbulb) of your device, anyway? To create a charge
imbalance,
you have to pull charges (usually electrons) out of a material _against
their own electric binding forces_, which takes IN energy, not put
it out.


Do you understand what makes the Wimshurst Generator work? Well, it
isn't a different principal, and it is the same as this one constructed
around Lord Kelvin's Water Powered Electrostatic Generator.

http://www.cvcaroyals.org/~rheckathorn/documents/KelvinWaterDropGeneratoreXPLANATION.doc

It doesn't take any electricity. Nothing is perfect, no matter how
well made, the noise starts with the brushes and differences in
contact. The neutralizer bar and brushes start a rush of current, it
can't stabilize either, which is a product of stray inductance. Why is
it unstable? That's simple to, just like you have N and P dopants for
silicon, anything with free electrons is more negative than a
dielectric, which will always appear more positive. Now, if the area
or volume of one plate is every so slightly larger than the other, the
negative charge will go to the larger plate through the neutralizer bar
even when no charge was applied. Every conductor is subject to some of
the same rules, and stray inductance is one. Once, current flow is
established in one direction, it doesn't want to stop right away.
Therefore, there is an oscillation between two plates sharing the same
neutralizer bar. This will generate even more of an imbalance, and can
result in a plate that is smaller retaining a much higher negative
charge.

The foil petals on Wimshurst Generator, really only represent capacitor
plates. You should always view one side as positive, or mostly
positive, and the other mostly negative. When a plate reaches a
discharge brush, it effectively neutralizes the charge potential there
in the gap between the two disks. In moving the wheel and contacting
all of these brushes in order, each capacitive plate is attempting to
stabilize with 3 different capacitve plates. All that is making it
really work starts after the instability has beaten the odds, and one
side of the disk is majorly positive, and the other majorly negative.
In theory, you should be able to do the same thing with a mechanical 8
pole 32 position rotory selector swich and a properly wired bank of
non-electrolytic capacitors, and one coil that would have a value of
..01 ohms at the resonant frequency of the pair. So, if you used 32
..01uF capacitors, you would need something like a 0.001uH coil to
represent a neutralizer bar. As long as the switching is organized in
the same fashion to for each position of the switch to play the same
role as to the brushes for the two rotating disks, the plates of any
given capacitor, treated the same as one disk or the other, and they
will charge up. That same kind of instability still exists. Two poles
would represent the brushes connect to one sphere in the spark gap,
then two more the opposing pole. 2 other contacts would represent
would represent on neutralizer bar, and the final 2 the last
neutralizer bar. Your spark gap would be a neon bulb with a 1 mega ohm
resistor in series with it.


They already have a few that power lightbulbs, you didn't look for one.
 
T

The Flavored Coffee Guy

You can use 4 printed circuit disks and 8 brushes and make a rotary
contact that will work at 3000 rpm, and watch little lightbulb. I
don't believe hand cranking this will work, and you should blow all of
your capacitors.
 
T

The Flavored Coffee Guy

Use a hole saw, and photoetch your own circuit boards to play the role
of the switch. Of course you know will have to cross wire all of these
disks right?
 
T

The Flavored Coffee Guy

Go for it, mount em' up, put em' on the circuit board, and send em for
a ride of instability.
 
T

The Flavored Coffee Guy

You can add diodes to insure the direction of current flow.
 
J

John Popelish

The said:
Do you understand what makes the Wimshurst Generator work? Well, it
isn't a different principal, and it is the same as this one constructed
around Lord Kelvin's Water Powered Electrostatic Generator.

It involves mechanically moving static charges together and
apart, while letting them move in response to the forces
they produce on each other, at appropriate points, to get
them to move where you want them to be.

But it does take mechanical force to push like charges
toward each other, and pull unlike changes away from each
other. Both these forces occur in the Wimshurst machine.

(snip)
The foil petals on Wimshurst Generator, really only represent capacitor
plates. You should always view one side as positive, or mostly
positive, and the other mostly negative. When a plate reaches a
discharge brush, it effectively neutralizes the charge potential there
in the gap between the two disks. In moving the wheel and contacting
all of these brushes in order, each capacitive plate is attempting to
stabilize with 3 different capacitve plates. All that is making it
really work starts after the instability has beaten the odds, and one
side of the disk is majorly positive, and the other majorly negative.
In theory, you should be able to do the same thing with a mechanical 8
pole 32 position rotory selector swich and a properly wired bank of
non-electrolytic capacitors, and one coil that would have a value of
.01 ohms at the resonant frequency of the pair. So, if you used 32
.01uF capacitors, you would need something like a 0.001uH coil to
represent a neutralizer bar. As long as the switching is organized in
the same fashion to for each position of the switch to play the same
role as to the brushes for the two rotating disks, the plates of any
given capacitor, treated the same as one disk or the other, and they
will charge up.
(snip)


They won't, but you shouldn't take my word for it. you
should build this and convince yourself. Your static model
eliminates the mechanical transport of trapped charge, that
takes place in the Wimshurst machine or the Kelvin generator.
 
M

Macgyver

David said:
Ah yes, Carter, every geeks fantasy!

O'Neil knows it all, he just doesn't show it, after all he IS MacGyver!

Dave :)

Damb straight (and I should know)!

;)
 
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