Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?

D

David Maynard

John said:
Understanding English and understanding your writing are two
different things.

Feel free to explain the difficulties your version of English has
understanding "I refuse to discuss it with you."
You've been defending Microsoft throughout this long thread.

Feel free to explain the difficulties your version of English has
understanding "declining to discuss is not a defense of anyone."
Whether or not I can understand English, I sure can speak it and I
don't miss typing one little bit. Amen brother.

I've noticed.
 
D

David Maynard

Peter said:
But wasn't a major part of the court process centred around determining
whether IE was or was not a necessary part of the O/S? Weren't
Microsoft claiming that it was and, if removed, then the O/S would not
work as 'advertised'? Isn't that one of the major reasons why the case
dragged on for so long? One set of experts trying to prove that IE was
NOT a necessary component.

Didn't some group or groups actually manage to remove IE completely and
still have Windows work? Wasn't that a major factor in disproving M$'s
claims? In other words, it wasn't just a simple case of showing that
and O/S should not have applications as it's components, it was far more
complicated than that at the time.

It was some time ago so may 'facts' may be somewhat of the mark. :)

You're pretty close but I don't think anyone managed to remove every bit
and piece of IE and if it there wasn't already some theory of what is not a
'part of the O.S.' then attempting to remove it would be moot. I mean, if
it *is* a 'part' then what's the point?

The problem with these kinds of things, though, is they're nebulous,
subject to opinion and interpretation, and you can 'prove' just about
anything, to your own satisfaction at least, depending on your underlying
assumptions and how you want it to come out.

Take the example of removing I.E.. If you want to conclude it isn't
'necessary' to the O.S. then you simply argue they intentionally made it
break the O.S. when removed so failing to remove it proves nothing. They
'could' do it 'right' if forced to, or so you'd argue (and believe).

On the other hand, would you buy an O.S. with no browser? Would most
people? And, if not, doesn't that make it a rather 'necessary part' of the
product whether one can remove it or not? And if you were making an O.S.
would you depend on someone else to provide your critical update mechanism,
hoping they make mods as you need them, on time, bug free, rather than
whatever they might determine is 'more important' to their own product
schedule? Or would you feel that important enough a feature to be 'a
necessary part' of your O.S., written and maintained by your own people?

But then, back to the other side, if you believe it isn't necessary you
just pooh pooh the notion and argue anyone's browser would work just fine
if they didn't 'intentionally' make their dumb update mechanism odd ball
(and you'd believe it).

And we could go on and on, back and forth, in the same manner because
there's always "a way to do it," depending on your opinion of what an O.S.
product "should be" and what's "just as good" or "acceptable."

But then browsers don't all work 'exactly' the same, do they? and when the
user has a problem with your "Internet Ready" O.S., and automatic updates,
who do they call for support? Who do they blame? What's broke? Who fixes it?


You're quite right that it's more complicated.
 
G

Gary H

David said:
Super. But unless you can demonstrate your area's exports are enough to
power the planet that little factiod means nothing about the state of
the world's oil supply.

Overly simplistic bullshit. It's all of the sources worldwide
that supplies the planet and there is plenty at the moment. It
will eventually run out, so I guess the oil guys figure they'll
get their money now, while the gettin' is good..
They haven't built new refineries in a coon's age because they can't get
permits as environmentalists have essentially blocked every
technologically feasible source of new energy production.

Again, overly simplistic bullshit.
Wouldn't be so bad if you folks up there would ever let them build a
bloody pipeline too but, nooooooo. So when it's socked in every other
means of transport is cut off and you're stuck with whatever local
supplies have been pre stocked.

Again, over simplistic. It's not that building a pipeline is
not permitted, it that it's not permitted to build it the *way*
you guys want to do it. We *do* have environmental protection
rules up this way, and where we have them, we apply them.
Your shipping argument is totally off the wall and incorrect as
well. Never saw weather yet that could keep an oil tanker from
it's appointed rounds. Not even in the North Atlantic.
That costs money, pal, and creates shortages.

As with everything else, I suppose when you you find yourselves
behind the eight ball with energy costs and availability, you'll
just walk in and take it like you feel it's your right. What is
it you folks call it down there? Oh yes, "American interests".
Since you've got all that excess oil, why don't you lobby the
legislature for a refinery permit? hmm?

We have plenty of refining capacity to look after our own needs
up this way. Other countries are responsible for their own
refining capacity construction programs. Unless the oil
companies there, wish to keep the cost of fuel artificially
high. And, what it's priced at on the good old New York Stock
Exchange is what you guys, and the rest of the friggin' world,
pay for it.
 
J

JAD

David Maynard said:

Holy freaking crap that was undoubtedly one of the most ridiculous things
ever typed!
Which in my mind ends this convo, your not playing with a full deck, a
sandwich shy of a picnic, your elevator never sees the top floor, and your a
brick shy of a complete wall.

AND ABOVE ALL JD-Gary H - Mikey, you guys wouldn't know what to do if you
were suddenly dropped into BG's shoes. Other than put the company in ruin.
BUT if you struggled to make your company what it was, just to have whiners
try and take it from you, I am SURE you would sing a whole nother tune.

Whiners = those who wanted in, but didn't want the risk, and now think
because they 'thought' about getting in, they should have a piece of the
browser/OS pie. Anything that helps standardize, is a great thing for
advancing the technology. Thank you all those that screwed themselves, by
trying to screw others.
 
J

JAD

Where are your geo. credentials? I live in California, does that make me an
expert on California oil deposits?

Unless you live in California, I could care less.Your oil means nothing to
me(or at least it shouldn't). 93% of my gas comes from California crude. So
why is it that gas prices here, are even effected by 'OPEC? Its a CON, and
as far as 'plenty' maybe for you - yourself, but as far as the world is
concerned, we better find an alternative soon, if in fact we don't already
have one. And pulling out the last drop of 'ballast' from the earth would
be a good thing?
Overly simplistic bullshit. It's all of the sources worldwide that
supplies the planet and there is plenty at the moment. It will eventually
run out, so I guess the oil guys figure they'll get their money now, while
the gettin' is good..

Yes it is, yet you seem not to get it. OIL is the biggest CON of all.
Evetually? It has been 'running out' for 10 years or more, We reached
maximum capasity long ago, and demand has coninued to grow.
 
J

John Doe

David Maynard <nospam private.net> wrote:

<snipped the usual Microsoft defender nonsense>

The federal appeals court wrote:

"...we uphold the District Court's finding of monopoly power in its
entirety."

"...we reject Microsoft's argument that we should vacate the
District Court's Finding of Fact 159 as it relates to consumer
confusion."

"The District Court found that the restrictions Microsoft imposed in
licensing Windows to OEMs prevented many OEMs from distributing
browsers other than IE."

"By preventing OEMs from removing visible means of user access to
IE, the license restriction prevents many OEMs from pre-installing a
rival browser and, therefore, protects Microsoft's monopoly from the
competition that middleware might otherwise present. Therefore, we
conclude that the license restriction at issue is anticompetitive."

"These restrictions impose significant costs upon the OEMs; prior to
Microsoft's prohibiting the practice, many OEMs would change the
appearance of the desktop in ways they found beneficial. (March 1997
letter from Hewlett-Packard to Microsoft: "We are responsible for
the cost of technical support of our customers, including the 33% of
calls we get related to the lack of quality or confusion generated
by your product.... We must have more ability to decide how our
system is presented to our end users. If we had a choice of another
supplier, based on your actions in this area, you would not be our
supplier of choice.")."

"Microsoft's primary copyright argument borders upon the frivolous.
The company claims an absolute and unfettered right to use its
intellectual property as it wishes: "If intellectual property rights
have been lawfully acquired," it says, then "their subsequent
exercise cannot give rise to antitrust liability." That is no more
correct than the proposition that use of one's personal property,
such as a baseball bat, cannot give rise to tort liability."

"In sum, we hold that with the exception of the one restriction
prohibiting automatically launched alternative interfaces, all the
OEM license restrictions at issue represent uses of Microsoft's
market power to protect its monopoly, unredeemed by any legitimate
justification. The restrictions therefore violate section 2 of the
Sherman Act."







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From: David Maynard <nospam private.net>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: The truth about OS/2!!! [Re: Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?]
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:03:30 -0600
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J

John Doe

JAD wrote:

<snipped the usual top-posted troll>
which group are you posting from? Its cross posted
to: sci.electronics.basics, sci.electronics.repair,
alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt.

So what? The original poster is not a regular in any of those
groups.
Some of us have worked on PCs for over 20 years. and have no need
to hang around alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt.

The hardware group is not a subgroup of the electronics group.

I would be very impressed if (in reality) you never had a question
appropriate for the homebuilt PC group.
As far as STFU: You should practice what you preach.

Telling someone "shut up" on the Internet is a joke, isn't it?



--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida


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J

John Doe

YAWN. You barely get a .0001 on the "troll-o-meter". POAD

At least you finally figured it out.


--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida


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J

John Doe

David said:
Peter said:
Take the example of removing I.E.. If you want to conclude it
isn't 'necessary' to the O.S. then you simply argue

David Maynard simply argues. The rest of us simply jog our memory to
a time when Internet Explorer was an add-on component to Windows.

David Maynard is old enough and technically inclined enough to know
better.

To imagine that an Internet browser is a necessary part of a
personal computer operating system is to suggest that a personal
computer cannot run the myriad of extremely valuable programs it in
fact ran before Microsoft bound Internet explorer to Windows.
On the other hand, would you buy an O.S. with no browser?

Corporations or any entity that wants its subordinate(s) to use the
computer but not use an Internet browser would buy an operating
system with no browser.

A really good example IMO would be a parent who wants their kid to
have access to the ever increasing universe of information on the
Internet but wants a browser specifically programmed/tailored to
help keep the kid from stumbling on all of the garbage.

The rest of us might buy an operating system preinstalled with a
browser of choice.

<snipped the rest of David Maynard's Microsoft Speak>





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From: David Maynard <nospam private.net>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: The truth about OS/2!!! [Re: Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?]
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J

John Doe

David said:

Just a troll.

Message-ID: <11mm0ukht2piv15 corp.supernews.com>

David Maynard wrote:
"The Netscape matter is interesting because they began by giving
their browser away..."

David Maynard conveniently forgets his own writing less than 24
hours old.

Assuming David Maynard's claim is true (is anything he says fact and
not just agreement with his personal opinion?) about Netscape giving
Navigator away is true, it is no different than allowing pirates to
steal Windows and later putting the squeeze on us (think Windows
Product Activation WPA).



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From: David Maynard <nospam private.net>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: The truth about OS/2!!! [Re: Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?]
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M

Mxsmanic

John said:
Do you always speak loudly as possible? That makes about as much
sense.

No, it does not. I can easily and immediately assess the level of
ambient noise and adjust the loudness of my voice in consequence. I
cannot immediately assess the vocabulary of the person with whom I'm
communicating, and so I cannot know whether it is larger or smaller
than my own.
Mental capacity has something to do with your ability/inability to
adapt.

Yes, but intelligence is not prescience.
You suggested Gary H has a limited vocabulary.

Where?
 
M

Mxsmanic

John said:
All Microsoft had to do was sell Windows and allow pirates to steal
it.

"Allow pirates to steal it"? So Microsoft is essentially damned if it
does and damned if it doesn't.
Now that Microsoft Windows is an entrenched monopoly, Microsoft
is putting the screws down.
How?

Unless Microsoft is making all the money.

It's not. The vast majority of money in the PC world is made by
companies other than Microsoft.
 
M

Mxsmanic

John said:
Assuming David Maynard's claim is true ...

You don't know for sure?
... it is no different than allowing pirates to
steal Windows and later putting the squeeze on us (think Windows
Product Activation WPA).

The "squeeze" is put on pirates, who had never acquired Windows
legally to begin with. Why is this bad?
 
G

Gary H

JAD said:
Where are your geo. credentials? I live in California, does that make me an
expert on California oil deposits?

Unless you live in California, I could care less.Your oil means nothing to
me(or at least it shouldn't). 93% of my gas comes from California crude. So
why is it that gas prices here, are even effected by 'OPEC? Its a CON, and
as far as 'plenty' maybe for you - yourself, but as far as the world is
concerned, we better find an alternative soon, if in fact we don't already
have one. And pulling out the last drop of 'ballast' from the earth would
be a good thing?


There we go, the old "F**k you Jack, I'm all right" mentality.
I already said that where I live we're net exporters of oil yet
we still pay horrendously high prices. Taking into account
exchange rates, we pay much more than you do. Take a look at
the price of crude coming out of the gulf states. It's the
goddam stock market and Wall St in general that's keeping prices
sky high. GREED.
 
J

John Doe

Mxsmanic said:
You don't know for sure?

Know what for sure?
The "squeeze" is put on pirates, who had never acquired Windows
legally to begin with.

You are naïve if you really think so.

The squeeze is on typical American families who are not technically
inclined and who would like to install Windows XP on their kids
computer as well. Anybody who is technically inclined (pirates
included) and most everybody outside of the United States can get
Windows XP for free and install it on all their computers. The
squeeze is put on ordinary home users here in the United States.





--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.


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From: Mxsmanic <mxsmanic gmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: The truth about OS/2!!! [Re: Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?]
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:50:20 +0100
Organization: Just Mxsmanic
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J

John Doe

Mxsmanic said:
No, it does not.

Yes, it does.
I can easily and immediately assess the level of
ambient noise and adjust the loudness of my voice in consequence.
I cannot immediately assess the vocabulary of the person with whom
I'm communicating,

Can you remember?
and so I cannot know whether it is larger or smaller
than my own.

Because you're so forgetful.
Yes, but intelligence is not prescience.

You can't even remember your own two hour old argument.

Your short term memory problem would benefit by quoting more than
one level in your replies.

In just another of your forgotten writings.
 
J

John Doe

One incredibly clueless troll.
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From: Mxsmanic <mxsmanic gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: The truth about OS/2!!! [Re: Why aren't computer clocks as accurate as cheap quartz watches?]
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:48:31 +0100
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John said:
All Microsoft had to do was sell Windows and allow pirates to steal
it.

"Allow pirates to steal it"? So Microsoft is essentially damned if it
does and damned if it doesn't.
Now that Microsoft Windows is an entrenched monopoly, Microsoft
is putting the screws down.
How?

Unless Microsoft is making all the money.

It's not. The vast majority of money in the PC world is made by
companies other than Microsoft.
 
G

Gary H

JAD said:
Where are your geo. credentials? I live in California, does that make me an
expert on California oil deposits?

Don't need 'em. It's called *known* reserves. You just have to
follow the words of the guys who bored the holes. They actually
print that stuff for public consumption you know? Gawd, "geo.
credentials" what a maroon.
Unless you live in California, I could care less.Your oil means nothing to
me(or at least it shouldn't). 93% of my gas comes from California crude. So
why is it that gas prices here, are even effected by 'OPEC? Its a CON, and
as far as 'plenty' maybe for you - yourself, but as far as the world is
concerned, we better find an alternative soon, if in fact we don't already
have one. And pulling out the last drop of 'ballast' from the earth would
be a good thing?

Of all the people on this continent, you guys are the biggest
fossil fuel guzzlers of the bunch. With your honkin' big SUVs
and your mile long motor homes and other assorted uh-huh toys.
What are we up to now, four car families or what? Why don't you
sell some of those suckers and save a quart or two? And don't
be screaming *too* much about self sufficiency, if it wasn't for
the Canadian hydro supplies you folks in California would be
groping around in the dark wondering why the goddam light
switches don't work. As an aside, you've also screwed up most
of your potable fresh water and where are you are your eyeballs
swinging now. Why north of course. You know, those dumb
Canuks got lots we can have and besides, why should they be
allowed to own all that water anyway.
Guy, you folks are born super consumers, who give very little
thought to consequences of your actions until one resource or
another is just about all gone. So please, don't preach to me,
you have got *absolutely nothing* to teach me.
 
M

Mxsmanic

John said:
Know what for sure?

Whether or not what David says is true. You said "assuming," which
implies that you didn't know whether it was truth or not and that you
did no research.
The squeeze is on typical American families who are not technically
inclined and who would like to install Windows XP on their kids
computer as well.

It's illegal for them to install the same copy of Windows on more than
one machine.

And typical American families don't do this, anyway. They buy
machines with Windows preinstalled, so no legal issues arise.
Anybody who is technically inclined (pirates
included) and most everybody outside of the United States can get
Windows XP for free and install it on all their computers.

Perhaps, but only dishonest people do this.
The squeeze is put on ordinary home users here in the United States.

How? They have Windows preinstalled on their machines, and so they
have no reason to pirate it. Additionally, most of them are honest,
and so they wouldn't necessarily pirate it even if they had a reason
to do so.
 
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